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Thread: Square Enix Japan providing Deus Ex 3 CGI

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    Exclamation Square Enix Japan providing Deus Ex 3 CGI

    Square Enix's Tokyo (Japan) developers are to work on Deus Ex 3 cinematics, according to Eidos Montreal studio General Manager Stephane D’Astous in an interview with Edge.

    "Deus Ex 3 is going to be the first project which will be a concrete product of joint effort between Square Enix and Eidos," said D'Astous. "The cinematics—by which I mean any CGI pre-rendered cinematics — are going to be done in Tokyo by Square Enix, and that's going to be amazing."

    Explaining the background for this announcement, D'Astous said, "It was in April when Square Enix acquired us, and by June, July I was trying to think of a project we could do together. One morning I woke up and I said, we'll, they're known for their cinematics, so why not get them involved with those?"

    Though the level of cinematic sequences in Deus Ex 3 is currently un-announced, D'Astous claimed Square Enix would at least be working on the trailers and the introduction cinematic.

    "We already have some pre-visualisations," continued D'Astous. "The people in Tokyo are just so glad to work on it; this is the first project for them that's a non-Final Fantasy title— they even want to work on Thief 4 too, so everyone is really excited."

    SOURCE: DEUS EX CENTRAL

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    Aye, 'tis true! So far things are going really well and I don't think anyone can doubt the quality of their work. It's been an interesting process, the merging of Eastern and Western ideas, but I think the end result is going to be something great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by René View Post
    the merging of Eastern and Western ideas
    I was afraid it would be like this...
    Apparently there are people who think the best way to make
    a prequel is to contradict the thing to which it is a prequel.

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    The only positive part on this is Square Enix are good on making CGI cinematics, now for the rest that's an other story ...
    If you want to make enemies; just dumb something down
    The manderley song => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WnBeglPl7s

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    OH GOD NO.

    Firstly, because it's Square Enix. Love them, love their games, and yes, love their cinematics - but they have a very definite "style" to them, which isn't right for Deus Ex. The fact that this is their first non-Final Fantasy title speaks volumes.

    Secondly, and more significantly, BOOO! to pre-rendered cinematics at all. They were great in the days when in-game graphics were severely limited, but there's absolutely no reason for them now - they take up far more disk space than in game cutscenes, they're completely inflexible (so if a character, say, changes their weapon - or in this case, their augs - this can't be reflected in the cutscene) and in many ways they actually look worse than in-engine cutscenes because comparatively they have no sense of visual depth. There's also an obvious cut between in-engine and and FMV, which rips you straight out of any sense of immersion the game may have created.

    Want a great example of where in-game cutscenes came out a lot better than FMVs? The original Deus Ex. The intro and end sequences on PC are much better than those in the PS2 version, because they're in perfect continuity with the rest of the game, in regards to look and feel. In the PS2 game, JC turns into Albert Wesker in the end sequences.

    I'm not just saying this with regards to DX3, either - I just genuinely dislike using FMVs in modern games. The only time they're acceptable is in "storyboard" sequences, such as the intro to Borderlands, which are intended to be stylised. Anything that's meant to be depicting the game's universe directly should happen in-engine, IMO. FMVs are just a relic of the days when we didn't have any better options.

    If you're determined to look for a silver lining, Deus Ex 3's tradition of "all new news is bad news" remains untarnished. If nothing else, Eidos Montreal are consistent.
    Last edited by Ashpolt; 11-24-2009 at 07:52 AM.

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    I can't imagine them using pre-rendered cinematic for anything other than intro and outro scenes. These might as well be pre-rendered, with lots of effects that cannot be efficiently done in real time, and have the Square style to them. It'd be fine. These don't have to flow with the rest of the game, and you don't have to watch them. Just as long as once the game starts and until it ends there are no other pre-rendered scenes. Everything that happens during this stretch of time should be done in the engine.

    If EM is thinking of interrupting gameplay with pre-rendered cinematics that "drive the story", it is a very bad idea. Ashpolt covered most of the problems with it quite nicely.

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    That's the problem of them at least I don't think this would be different than what they have originally planed, yes ? no ?
    Personally I prefer engine rendered cinematics, but I think they want to attract the mass with that kind of "shiny" cinematics
    If you want to make enemies; just dumb something down
    The manderley song => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WnBeglPl7s

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    Too bad, I prefer it when cinematics are done in realtime by the game engine, like the Deus Ex intro.

    The only exception to this where I actually liked the pre-rendered cinematics, is the Thief series. The game engine would have serious problems trying to get that mood and style. And it works well as mission briefings too, and don't just start at an inappropriate moment.
    Last edited by Freddo; 11-24-2009 at 08:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K^2 View Post
    These don't have to flow with the rest of the game, and you don't have to watch them.
    What? How can that possibly be an argument in favour of FMVs when you're talking about using them for the intro and ending sequences? The intro is going to be setting up the game's universe, providing vital background details, and the ending sequence is your reward for however many hours of play. Of course you have to watch them - at least, if you care about the story at all, and if you don't care about the story that's a massive failure in another area.

    If they have to use FMVs - which apparently they do - then I'll agree that the intro is the best place to do it, because that's before the player has had any chance to alter the game world. By the ending sequence, though, your Adam (apparently) might look vastly different to mine because of the augs we've installed - so if we've got pre-rendered endings, they're going to have to not show Adam, for a start (much like IW's endings didn't show Alex.)

    Really, FMVs are just terrible nowadays. No matter how well they're rendered, they just look inferior to the depth you get with in-engine scenes. Other than object deformation, I can't think of much that can be done in FMV which can't be done in real time (and tbh, I think deformation could be done with a bit of effort) so FMVs are pointless.

    I'd like to give special mention here to Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway. I'm not particularly sure why, but it just keeps springing to the front of my mind when I think of games with well done in-engine cutscenes.

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    It certainly does sound a little weird, having a company in Japan provide random bits of the graphics in-game... Deus Ex anime might be a good spin-off... Once again, like another guy said, zero or almost zero expectation is the only way to approach this

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    not necessarily......EM wouldnt be stupid enough to let Square enix dictate the style for it. Also, just because theyve done only FF style til now, it doesnt mean they cant be versatile enough to handle the Dx mood....its an artists job after all. As for breaking immersion.....they could just scale up teh poly count of the ingame models and replace textures for the FMV models so tht they look good while not looking alien from the game......I saw this kind of thing in one of the mass effect FMVs. But for a game like Dx, the only place FMVs could fit in would be intro and outro like K^2 said. But I hope they dont turn out into some generic intr0 and ending movies like Dx2.

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    Sounds interesting and I'm sure SE has more than enough knowledge in that area to make stunning CGI cutscenes or whatever they call them now. Couple that with the apparent serious approach to the story aspect of the game that EM are taking and we could be in for a real treat.

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    ^
    I agree, it could be really amazing. Let's hope so.
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    Although I haven't played any of the Final Fantasys games, I can say (from what I've seen so far on youtube) that their cutscenes are not something that fits quite so well on the Deus eX world.
    Yes, I can be wrong (AFAIK they've only done CGIs on the aforementioned franshise), but given the fact that they are following a very japanese traditional type of art in terms of the feelings conveyed to the viewer, I doubt it. IIRC they use a more subtil and more methaphorical way of transmiting certains effects, like fish reminding you of your predecessors that already died, and they usually take 3x the time needed to convey a certain feeling (I.E. this scene would take about 5 minutes long [go to the 2nd minute until the end of the cutscene, sorry I couldn't find a better video of that cutscene]).
    But, like I said, I can be wrong, they can prove to make some excellent CGI cutscenes. Somewhat in the lines of the outro videos of IW (probably the best part of that game, IMO) but better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddo View Post
    The only exception to this where I actually liked the pre-rendered cinematics, is the Thief series. The game engine would have serious problems trying to get that mood and style. And it works well as mission briefings too, and don't just start at an inappropriate moment.
    They worked because they went for a distinct style for the cutscenes.

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    I don't know why people thinks they would change the DX 3 style, it was already defined before by artworks ...
    But I think it was already planed
    If you want to make enemies; just dumb something down
    The manderley song => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WnBeglPl7s

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    Quote Originally Posted by René View Post
    Aye, 'tis true! So far things are going really well and I don't think anyone can doubt the quality of their work. It's been an interesting process, the merging of Eastern and Western ideas, but I think the end result is going to be something great.
    In my experience an "interesting process" means biting the bullet..... just saying

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    What do you meant by biting the bullet ?
    If you want to make enemies; just dumb something down
    The manderley song => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WnBeglPl7s

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    I mean not getting your way in the matter and just having to go along with things.
    So, the wait continues...

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    Oh! Oh! I hope it's all animu like Final Fantasy Advent Children!

    Adam should have big floppy emo hair and big eyes!

    *waits for gamer004's head to explode*
    I stared a century thinking this will never change
    As I hesitated, time rushed onwards without me

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    Yikes. People need to pause and perhaps ask questions in the future rather than immediately jumping to conclusions!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade_hunter View Post
    The only positive part on this is Square Enix are good on making CGI cinematics, now for the rest that's an other story ...
    And that's exactly what they're doing. The concept, story, dialogue, art direction, etc. all come from us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashpolt View Post
    OH GOD NO.

    Firstly, because it's Square Enix. Love them, love their games, and yes, love their cinematics - but they have a very definite "style" to them, which isn't right for Deus Ex.
    See above comment. We were totally aware of the Japanese style of cinematics and art right from the beginning - that's why all that stuff is being done by us. They are producing our ideas. We are working closely with them every step of the way to ensure the Western Cyberpunk feel is maintained. Fear not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashpolt View Post
    Secondly, and more significantly, BOOO! to pre-rendered cinematics at all.
    The only CGI they are producing is for the trailer. All in-game cinematics are done in-engine. Again, fear not.

    Quote Originally Posted by K^2 View Post
    Just as long as once the game starts and until it ends there are no other pre-rendered scenes. Everything that happens during this stretch of time should be done in the engine.
    It is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddo View Post
    Too bad, I prefer it when cinematics are done in realtime by the game engine, like the Deus Ex intro.
    Everything in the game is in-engine, no CGI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yargo View Post
    In my experience an "interesting process" means biting the bullet..... just saying
    I meant it's been intriguing, challenging in places, but overall very enjoyable. We knew right away we'd need to manage the creation closely and we've been doing that literally on a daily basis. Square-Enix's CGI is some of the industry's best, right up there with Blizzard and external studios like Blur (who also do work for feature films). We're actually really luckily to have this possibility offered to us and they know Deus Ex is its own game, so we're merging their technical prowess with our design. It's looking good!
    Last edited by René; 11-24-2009 at 11:51 AM.

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    Thanks for the news, Rene - much appreciated.

    But can one of you guys please still put up a picture of Adam smoking that cig and make his eyes big, like Anime big?

    Please, please, please! That would be too funny
    Last edited by PenguinsFriend; 11-24-2009 at 11:54 AM.
    "It looks like Adam is stalking a fat S&M enthusiast with a leaf blower. http://www.abload.de/img/6dmut.jpg" spm1138

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    Thanks René for clarifying it !
    If you want to make enemies; just dumb something down
    The manderley song => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WnBeglPl7s

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    Yikes. People need to pause and perhaps ask questions in the future rather than immediately jumping to conclusions!
    No conclusions made just throwing in 2 cents. Thanks for clarifying though
    So, the wait continues...

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    [QUOTE=Ashpolt;1221742]OH GOD NO.

    Firstly, because it's Square Enix. Love them, love their games, and yes, love their cinematics - but they have a very definite "style" to them, which isn't right for Deus Ex. The fact that this is their first non-Final Fantasy title speaks volumes.

    Secondly, and more significantly, BOOO! to pre-rendered cinematics at all. They were great in the days when in-game graphics were severely limited, but there's absolutely no reason for them now - they take up far more disk space than in game cutscenes, they're completely inflexible (so if a character, say, changes their weapon - or in this case, their augs - this can't be reflected in the cutscene) and in many ways they actually look worse than in-engine cutscenes because comparatively they have no sense of visual depth. There's also an obvious cut between in-engine and and FMV, which rips you straight out of any sense of immersion the game may have created.

    ....[QUOTE]

    now that rene clarified... i'll also point out that it probably didn't need to be a concern that it would be out of engine... i mean think of it, they made a big point about how certain augs will be seen in 3rd person to show how it works to show how "cool" it look etc.

    which, whether or not you like that idea, would be totally contradictory to out of engine stuff... since they would be thwarting their own goal of "look how cool that is" by giving you a cinnematic of Adam that is set in ston e and cannot reflect player choice.

    just sayin.

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    I was expecting them to use CGI for marketing purposes - or like said by K^2, in intro and outro scenes.
    But now with the participation of Square things will be brought to another level.

    Well, Eidos won't be needing Digital Dimension CGI anymore. Now they can have it with quality and cheaper.

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