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Thread: Binaural sound technique - extreme sound possibility

  1. #26
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    Holy that's amazing. With the dimensions of my room, it sounded like manuel was actually there. I actually can percieve their distance based on the sound alone, it's frickin amazing... I want it so bad. it's amazing... I want it...
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  2. #27
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    >this< pdf shows how the sound system was implemented in Thief

  3. #28
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    Wow that PDF file was very educative, thanks Esme

    So the binaural technique looks more difficult but more suitable according to it now. The hardest challenge is the processor power, and "same hearing mechanic for both the player and AI" It means every sound the player creates also has to be modified by same rules by game engine for AI. Now that's even more processing power. Too bad. I believe it will be wiser to implement this beautiful sound only to cutscenes and videos.

  4. #29
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    I bet EM is laughing out load and seeing us talk about what isn't possible while they've already implemented it... right?
    Hello EM!
    *akward silence*

  5. #30
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    I'd bet OnlIve could get it to work for a Thief game...as opposed to XBox360

  6. #31
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    that is a really awesome video/sound. But the question is, how would this work on a regular tv that does not have surround sound? assuming something like this could be used on the current consoles?
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  7. #32
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    Without headphones or 2-speaker stereo it would sound odd.

  8. #33
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    it would end up as just a perk for the computer gamers probably.

    And god forbid we combine it with this stuff:
    http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2009/1...ngle_page=true

    Feeling my firearrows explode? How about the vibrations from the machine I'm hiding behind so the guard doesn't see me? Awesome.
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  9. #34
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    Default modeling spaces

    The technology to physicaly model the sound shaping characteristics of a human ear are already in use with programs like Altiverb. They are used in a slightly different way but could be applied. You would first need a virtual model of the space you are in and apply the "effects" accordingly, then you would need to pass the audio through the virtual model of human ears relative to the direction you are facing and travelling at any given moment....!! This would require a lot of farting about to say the very least. It would require headphones, preferably earbuds to properly appreciate that level of cleverness. If they managed to incorporate that into a game engine it would be very very impressive, just wonder how many cores it would use just to process the audio.
    This link should give you an idea of the magnitude of the complications involved:

    http://www.audioease.com/Pages/mp3%2...bmp3demos.html

    and that's for a static recording with no "head model"

    the other alternative is to build a full scale structure of every level and space in thief4 and record every single noise from every single position using a rubber head. that might push the install slightly over 2bigjillionillion gig using my amazing mathematical rubber brain. You'd obviously need to do it a few times with different shaped/sized ears to account for different people, maybe a version for people with cauliflower ear or loads or piercings. As I've got older I've developed a kind of fluffy down on my ears which seems to soften some the harsh frequencies apparent in my wifes voice, so a fluffy lobed model would be needed to convince me.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealeaf View Post
    the other alternative is to build a full scale structure of every level and space in thief4 and record every single noise from every single position using a rubber head.
    I had this thought in the beginning, and I couldn't help but feel like I would love to try to LARP a thief mission in a full sized environment... but everyone would want to be the thief and the guards would have a really sucky boring job.

    PLEASE NOTE: the author of this post has never LARPed in his life, and finds the idea of people who LARP regularly kind of scary. But the idea of LARPing as Garrett and robbing a place is just too appealing for him to ignore. He also feels he's just edging a little too close to the edge of no return Geekdom. However, he feels that the edge is always where the best fun is...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypevosa View Post
    PLEASE NOTE: the author of this post has never LARPed in his life, and finds the idea of people who LARP regularly kind of scary. But the idea of LARPing as Garrett and robbing a place is just too appealing for him to ignore. He also feels he's just edging a little too close to the edge of no return Geekdom. However, he feels that the edge is always where the best fun is...
    And this author has also never LARP'ed (not even a murder mystery night) but for his sins would often be found during the whole of the 80's with funny dice and lots of paper sat round a table with fellow strange obsessives.
    This author was also a historical wargamer. (My Nikephorian Byzantines were to die for!)

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    This author does play DnD, but house rules dictate that anyone deciding to come in full costume and or LARP during a session other than small gestures, is to be shot. If he continues LARPing he is to be shot again. Not really, but we're trying to not delve so far into the dungeon that an egress spell won't get us back out. (that's an old videogame reference)

    I'm actually continuing to write our epic quest right now. I had to break down and do installments due to writers block and finals and whatnot.
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  14. #39
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    Don't you wish (excluding wish spell) that you could save game whilst playing D&D?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by esme View Post
    >this< pdf shows how the sound system was implemented in Thief
    Thanks for this, esme. It's now been read and saved in my database.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    Don't you wish (excluding wish spell) that you could save game whilst playing D&D?....
    DM is god, so you can quicksave if they say you can. ^_^ That would suck having to record all that info every save though...
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    Anyone remember those creepy noises in "Return to the cathedral"? Those "Feed us!" and "Hungry!" i guess it would take too much processing power to convert the whole game audio to binaural sound, but single sound effects could have it. Imagine those ghostly sentences being spoken to you as if there was someone whispering them to your ear. This technique might well be the next innovation in the mandatory scary level of Thief 4.

    Or maybe EM could make the Haunts even scarier than before by making them literally laugh inside your head when you've been spotted.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtr7 View Post
    Thanks for this, esme. It's now been read and saved in my database.
    you're welcome, I'm surprised you didn't already have it, it turned up on ttlg as a powerpoint presentation a while back but a lot of people couldn't read it so I converted it to pdf and hosted it for them ... never got round to taking it down
    Last edited by esme; 12-01-2009 at 03:40 AM. Reason: can't spell

  19. #44
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    I'm always finding something new in the archived past, when it's not brought forth by someone else, of course. The database is ever growing, with no end in sight! The joy of discovery is always worth it. I thank ye.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity View Post
    Anyone remember those creepy noises in "Return to the cathedral"? Those "Feed us!" and "Hungry!" i guess it would take too much processing power to convert the whole game audio to binaural sound, but single sound effects could have it. Imagine those ghostly sentences being spoken to you as if there was someone whispering them to your ear. This technique might well be the next innovation in the mandatory scary level of Thief 4.

    Or maybe EM could make the Haunts even scarier than before by making them literally laugh inside your head when you've been spotted.
    I think if they did that right I might about jump out of my couch and/or have my laptop get thrown into the wall by accident. I'd think it was awesome, but it would be somewhat hazardous.
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  21. #46
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    This could be done with EAX 5, using MacroFX.

    By the way Hype, any DM worth his salt would never let you quicksave.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypevosa View Post
    I think if they did that right I might about jump out of my couch and/or have my laptop get thrown into the wall by accident. I'd think it was awesome, but it would be somewhat hazardous.
    EM can refuse to take responsibility from someone having a heart attack by putting an option in the beginning of the game that simply asks: "Do you want to play this game or not?" That's what Infinity Ward did with MW2. They'll take no responsibility if someone replicates the games events (which btw doesn't happen in real life, outside the conservative media) and goes to shoot up an airport terminal.

    Actually, someone getting a heart attack this way would be a major win for the anti-videogame media, because then they'd finally have the first piece of solid evidence of a videogame as a leading cause of death.

  23. #48
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    i really cbf reading this thread - don't games already have this, just because u don't hear someone shaving ur head doesn't mean its not there. think about it. when you wear headphones playing counter-strike or call of duty or wateva you can hear exactly where everything is and where people are coming from. if someone has already said this i appologise.
    Last edited by Albi; 12-02-2009 at 05:31 AM.

  24. #49
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    Well, not really. You can hear if someone is shooting at you from the right or left, but that's about it. The point of this is that you can accurately judge distances and angles, particularly height. If someone is standing on a ledge directly above you, in most games it would sound identical to if they were standing directly in front of you.

    Wearing headphones creates a weird phenomenon in which sounds seems to emanate at some point on a horizontal line that runs from the left of you, through your skull and out to the right of you. How faint it is allows you do judge some semblance of distance.

    This is fine if a guard is walking past you from your left to your right, but what if they are coming down some stairs 30 degrees off to your left? Can you really judge using conventional recording techniques if a guard is on the ground floor or on the landing above? If you lean in to a door, wouldn't it be great to not only hear that there is someone moving in the room, but also to pinpont their position in the room by the sound of their footsteps?
    Procrastination is the Thief 4 forum

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    By the way Hype, any DM worth his salt would never let you quicksave.
    It really depends - no DM is the same. There are nice DM's, story intensive DM's, encounter intensive DM's, and DM's whose sole purpose is to murder the players (sending a Balor after a party that's only level 10 or less for example). Wanting to make the game more enjoyable for those who play it by giving them a quicksave - would probably fall under "would this make it more fun for my players and not break this game?". Now, instead of a quicksave, maybe a 1 time use checkpoint so they don't go in, get all the stats, know all the enemies in that encounter, and then make some convoluted plan to kill everything, but a save system of sorts really would need to be at the discretion of DM based on the difficulty of the dungeon and on whether or not his players would get more enjoyment out of it.

    All this time, me and my 2 friends who've DMed all our games, have been nice DM's. Nothing was thrown at the players that they couldn't reasonably handle. The closest we came to death was on the sea floor where a giant octopus grabbed our half dragon (whom everyone was actually riding since his run speed was so rediculous, my paladin on his back with a hammock made out of a bunch of chains). So the octopus was about to kill everyone because only I had the prescience to jump off. I sundered its tentacle to free my comrade, and then waited as I knew I was going to die next turn for it. Then the octopus critically failed and made the cave it was hiding in collapse on itself. That's the closest to death that I can recall coming, and at that point I was willing to accept it (it's how Hype would want to go -- in the service of friends). Until now we'd always had convoluted ways of saving the players from death, or falsifying their deaths (you wake up is a classic, and we used it once). Now, we've matured as DM's, and are willing to kill our players. Right now our main party is all at around half health or less, and it's only the first encounter of our epic dungeon, and I plan on having people die at least a few times. (Granted, we have potions of true resurrection made from the philosopher's stone, but I plan on them being used, or else many of them being spoiled by a black dragon's ability to spoil water *evil grin*). Speaking of all this, I need to go finish writing the epic dungeon for the weekend.

    Sorry for the completely off topic post.
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