Native? - VW's amazing theory

[VegetaWorshipper]

This is my first new thread here since I joined yesterday evening, so... um... yeah. Err... hi. How ya doin'?

I was pondering the case of Janos Audron the other day - as always, I'm obsessed, naturally - when I played through the section of SR2 in which Raziel meets him. It was only then, listening to his... rather sexy voice, that I really noticed his accent.

Conveniently, everyone is Nosgoth speaks the same language, even the Time Demons, and they all have slightly different accents, much like people from different areas of a country such as England, where accents and colloquialisms alter dramatically from place to place. We can assume, though, because their accents don't sound foreign in comparison to oneanother, except perhaps the Time Demons, who sound slightly American (I think, if I recall correctly). But Janos has a very, very strong foreign accent, which suggests that 'Nosgothic' wasn't his first language.

So, did the Ancients speak a different language to the other inhabitants of Nosgoth? If they did, they must have been from somewhere other than Nosgoth, because everyone native to Nosgoth speaks the same language.

If indeed the Ancients were not native to Nosgoth, then this could possibly be the biggest clue as to who started the war between the Ancients and the Hylden, and why. If the Hylden were native (I've never heard a Hylden voice so I don't know if they have accents or not), and the Ancients came to Nosgoth, the Ancients may well have started the war to 'evict' the Hylden from Nosgoth and take the land for themselves. When it looked as though the Hylden weren't going to leave, the Ancients erected the Pillars to get rid of them for good, mark Nosgoth as 'Ancient' territory and make certain that the Hylden didn't come back. But, the Hylden may have given the Ancients the vampiric curse to ensure that although the Ancients had taken Nosgoth, they would never be able to enjoy it. It would also explain why the Hylden are perpetually trying to get back into Nosgoth and take over, and are using Ancients to power their machines and such.

Perhaps the Ancients were not as innocent as they might have us believe... Your thoughts?

<falls to knees and begs Janos to forgive her for ever even thinking such a terrible thing of him>

[warpsavant]

So, did the Ancients speak a different language to the other inhabitants of Nosgoth?

Maybe they spoke a language similiar to Latin. Kain does mention that bit about ancient tongues or something in BO1.

As far as who is native to Nosgoth, I kinda thought they were both Native to Nosgoth, I mean, where else would they originate from? Space? Another dimension?

If this was the case, Then it certainly is a good reason for why the war started, but I lean more towards the idea that the Hylden are sort of like England and the Ancient Vampires like the American Colonies.

[Morte]

Could be. Nothing is certain at this point, and it may very well be, that it was the Ancients who "invaded" Nosgoth and began the war with Hylden.
But that is not really that important here, since this isn't about good or evil, it is about Hylden vs. Ancients. Some people are making the mistake of accepting the Ancients and the vampires as "good", just because the other side is fighting against them, and they, as the players, see only one side of the coin.
It is not so, as a player of the game you are bound to Kain's and Raziel's sides and perspectives, and we all know on which side are they on.
It matters not who is more evil, since there is no choice to be made by the player.
Leaving the Hylden plans and their connection with Elder aside(which is also mainly speculation at this point), we also know practically nothing of the Ancients.
Who is evil and who is good is just a matter of viewpoint, something that is often forgotten in this matter.
Hylden are not evil beasts and Ancients are not innocent, saintly creatures. They are just two factions fighting for power(and possibly for some deeper motives, but we know close to nothing of that).

[Vampmaster]

If all the two races care about is power then both races are evil. But there's no such thing as good and evil in nosgoth. It has to be more complicated than just wanting power. Why would they need it? Because they're lazy and want slaves? They have enough magic and knowlege so that they wouldn't need any of that. It's more about survival than power. Each race in Nosgoth (including humans) sees each other as a threat so they wish to anihalate (sp?) or in Kains case control the opposition. At the moment the antients (although Janos is their only representitive) seem to be the more enlightened of the three.

[VegetaWorshipper]

At the moment the antients (although Janos is their only representitive) seem to be the more enlightened of the three.

I agree. Janos tells us that he doesn't hate the humans, even after all they've done to him, and that they simply 'do not understand'. It would seem that perhaps Janos has higher morals and greater insight and enlightenment than the other inhabitants of Nosgoth, and a great deal more patience. But, as we've seen, it could all be a fascade, and he could just be trying to get Raziel to think that the Ancients were this angelic race of pure, innocent victims, attacked and cursed by the Hylden for no reason at all, when really the Ancients were the attackers and the invaders...

<wails>

I'm sorry, Janos! Forgive me! I don't mean it, I swear it! I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I'm sorry!

<begs for more forgiveness>

[Vampmaster]

I'm trying to say the same about Janos race as he says about humans. I think that both the Antients and the Hylden both originated from Nosgoth and there wasn't actually an invasion. If the Antients are not completely innocent that doesn't mean they're evil, they could just have made a mistake and are now trying to rectify it. This is what I think could happened:

The Elder does something to make the Hylden think the Antients and/or Humans are plotting against them. The Hylden confront them about this and the Antients jump the gun and turn it into a full scale war without stopping to ask any questions. The Antients banish the Hylden and now the Hylden are convinced they were right (even though this was all a big mistake orchastrated by the Elder). The Hylden curse the Antients in hope to annihilate both them and the Humans who they beleive were the ones who attacked them.

The murals by the Antients and the ones the Hylden put all over their city in BO2 all look suspiciously like the same kind of propaganda that the Sarafan have all over their stronghold.

[VegetaWorshipper]

Originally posted by Vampmaster
The murals by the Antients and the ones the Hylden put all over their city in BO2 all look suspiciously like the same kind of propaganda that the Sarafan have all over their stronghold.

Yes, that's true. The murals all over SR2 could just as easily be propaganda. As Vorador said:

"Fairytales, boy."

There's been speculation as to how his whole SR2 conversation with Raziel should be interpreted, but what if he meant the remarks he made about the Ancients literally? What if they really were just trying to hang on, trying to get people to think that they'd done nothing to provoke the Hylden and that they were the victims, not the attackers?

<continues to keep an open mind but feels guiltier by the minute>

[Vampmaster]

I never said they were the attackers. At least not unprovoked attackers. I think they just paniced and made a rash decision.

[VegetaWorshipper]

I'm getting more and more confused by the minute... I really wish I could figure out what the hell happened...