The cause of Blood Omen 2.

[TheElderGodofNosgoth]

Do you think that the Blood Omen 2 events were a direct result of the time shift at the end of Soul Reaver 2? I do.

[SirRaziel]

Yep I do to

[JANOS_KING_OF_VAMPIRES]

i dont
wow the polls are even
its 3 -3
50%-50%

[KainSyndrome101]

Why don't you think so, JANOS? The fact that Vorador is alive and well is hard evidence that something was altered in the course of history.

[JANOS_KING_OF_VAMPIRES]

it just doesn't seem likely to me
plus i remeber hearing that it isn't an alternate timeline
voroador's presence will be explained in future games
if anything bo3 would be in an alternate timeline because it should be closer to when kain made vamp raziel

[Umah Bloodomen]

I don't think so because Kain mentioned the Hylden at the end of SR2 (before the shift) which gave me the impression that he personally had a bad encounter with them at some point in time.

[Lady Kreliana]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't care.

[Sade Lyrate]

...And I'm definitely not certain how I should feel about BO2...
For some strange reason, I've found myself unable after a fashion
to 'grasp' the game, really get 'into' it. I recognize the familiar
names and voices, the slight undercurrent of a certain kind of
sadness ground into Nosgoth, the richness of the world itself. But
I fail to immerse myself in all of it, see the references to other games,
place BO2 to its right place in the timeline...
(note to all: above three things happen usually automatically)

...I sooo gotta get my head rightened...

[Lozza Mate]

Originally posted by KainSyndrome101
Why don't you think so, JANOS? The fact that Vorador is alive and well is hard evidence that something was altered in the course of history.

no it isn't

[TheElderGodofNosgoth]

Umah Bloodomen, here is the section of diologue that you are refering too:

Kain lunges forward - and with a massive, history-defying effort, tears the Reaver from Raziel's chest.

Raziel:
(Screams in agony)

The Reaver flies across the room, and the wraith-blade flickers and fades as it is seperated from its twin. Raziel falls forward, rescued from the threshold of oblivion, but nearly competely drained.

Kain:
Now you are free to reclaim your true destiny, Raziel.

Gradually, the room begins to warp around them as history strains to find a new course around this new obstruction. As the future reshuffles itself, a look of horror slowly dawns on Kain's face. With new memories blooming in his mind, Kain realizes he may have just made a terrible mistake.

Raziel V.O.:
Behind Kain's eyes, I could see new memories blooming and dying, as history labored to reshuffle itself around this monumental obstruction...
And I could see by the dawning horror on his face that perhaps we had strained history too far this time...
... that by trying to alter my fate, he may have introduced a fatal paradox.

Then the reshuffling begins to settle, as history finds its new course. But the horror on Kain's face remains, as he realizes what price has been paid to restore Raziel's future.

Kain: (quiet, awestruck horror)
My god... the Hylden...
... we walked right into their trap...

It is quite clear that Kain mentions the Hylden after time changes and not before. Lozza Mate, yes it does.

[KainSyndrome101]

Why not, Lozza Mate? Unless a large portion of the story hasn't been revealed yet, I think that the time changing events in Soul Reaver 2 had a lot to do with the future(or past, for that matter)of Nosgoth.

I'm not entirely sure that it's true, but right now, I'm sticking with my thoughts.

[KainSyndrome101]

Thanks for the good evidence ElderGod.

[A-Bomber]

i believe chris or someone had said that the events of blood omen 2 are not the altered timeline, and the fact that vorador is alive doesnt prove anything, kain mentions that he was dead before and how he came back is still a question, i firmly believe bo2 is unaltered...

[crispy]

I'm just wondering about the dialogue posted by TheElderGodofNosgoth.

If it says at the end of the dialogue that Kain had walked right into a Hylden trap, then perhaps the Hylden General will be ressurected in Blood Omen 3??? Am i wrong in saying that? That's what it may sound like, or some other Hylden figure.... perhaps even "The Builder" may be ressurected in Blood Omen 3???? Or will the Hylden General be ressurected in SR3?????? Interesting!!!

Any thoughts on that dialogue point?

I'm guessing , of course, but that's how I interpret it.

[Lady Kreliana]

Just because Kain and Raziel altered the course of history doesn't necessarily mean that Vorador (and/or Janos for that matter) is alive because of it. I'm not dismissing the possibility, but for now it's all theory and opinion. I know this may sound harsh (and I don't intend for this to sound this way), but don't confuse your opinions with facts. Yes, it is a fact that Kain and Raziel changed history, but it is an opinion that Vorador is alive because of it. Until it's made into a fact, it will stay as an opinion.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that SR2 had no effect on BO2. And trust me, you don't want my honest opinion as to why Vorador and Janos were in BO2.

[crispy]

Originally posted by Lady Kreliana
Just because Kain and Raziel altered the course of history doesn't necessarily mean that Vorador (and/or Janos for that matter) is alive because of it. I'm not dismissing the possibility, but for now it's all theory and opinion. I know this may sound harsh (and I don't intend for this to sound this way), but don't confuse your opinions with facts. Yes, it is a fact that Kain and Raziel changed history, but it is an opinion that Vorador is alive because of it. Until it's made into a fact, it will stay as an opinion.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that SR2 had no effect on BO2. And trust me, you don't want my honest opinion as to why Vorador and Janos were in BO2.

I'll bite...

tell me, what's your "honest" opinion???

[Lady Kreliana]

Trust me, you don't want to know.

If you're just that curious, email me or IM me later.

[Lozza Mate]

Originally posted by KainSyndrome101
Why not, Lozza Mate? Unless a large portion of the story hasn't been revealed yet, I think that the time changing events in Soul Reaver 2 had a lot to do with the future(or past, for that matter)of Nosgoth.

I'm not entirely sure that it's true, but right now, I'm sticking with my thoughts.

Vorador's existance does not prove that history has been altered due to Kain and Raziel in SR2, one popular theory is that because of SR2 the Soul Reaver was never created thus william wasn't killed and therefore Vorador wasn't killed in the second vampire purges. I do not believe this to be true and there is one major flaw in that theory: the Soul Reaver is in BO2 (complete with soul devouring ability)

I do not believe that history has been altered at all as a result of SR2, LOK follows a direct timeline and this has not been altered because all of this was what had happened all along. The future is another matter however, that has been altered

you're right about one thing though: a large portion of the BO story has been left out and this will mostlikey be revealed to us in BO3

[crispy]

Chris..... care to enlighten us on this matter?

[chinese-soul-eater]

The way that kain said
oh my god the hylden we walked right into their trap

look at the way he said it that implies that he knew the hylden

not like he said um raziel do you know the hylden ?????

i seem to have started something with the hylden???

BUT RAZIEL WHO THE PEEEEEEEEEP ARE THEY ????

he said it in fright as though he met them already



and even in BO2 the sarafan lord said that he would be back well not him exactly the hyldem race would be back

so hint hint

[TheElderGodofNosgoth]

Usually the simplist answer is the right one, right? The side of this matter that says that BO2 events that were not caused by the time change at the end of SR2 beleave that somehow Janos and Vorador were resorected after there deaths at the end of SR2 and BO:LoK and the heart of darkness was used one way or the other in both cases. We come to th problem that well if the HoD was restored to Janos shortle after it was ripted from his chest how can it be used to resorect Vorador? A Spirit Forge was used to make copys before it was restored to Janos. Who did it? Apperently from you point of view Janos was taken from his stronghold to the Device and was resorected, right? By the Sarafan Lord? Some time later Kain uses the heart of Darkness to reatach Voradors head to his body. Why? Kain had no love for Vorador. He would be just creating problems in the future. Evidence of that is in BO2. All the "well ifs" complication of this explation leads me to beleave that it is not so.

It is much easer to say that Vorador is alive in BO2 because he never died in BO:LoK because the time change at the end of SR2 changed that fact. It is mucy easer to say that Janos is a live because he was kidnaped and not killed because the time change at the end of SR2 changed that fact.

Lozza Mate, you have stated, "one popular theory is that because of SR2 the Soul Reaver was never created thus william wasn't killed and therefore Vorador wasn't killed in the second vampire purges." Well I agree with you there. There are holes in my story. I do reconize that fact that Kain, in BO2, make comments about Vorador reterning to the grave, but that could be talking about his human death. Thats all I got for now.

[chuffy]

i think that BO2 is the altered time-line because when kain says "the helden we walked right into their trap, raziel janos must stay dead". he must be referring to the events of BO2 where the helden use janos to power the device. this is a reason for him to stay dead.
as an after though. now that janos is in the grips of a whole world of helden his enemys, maybe he will be twisted into some kind of demon ( when he was in the device he looked a lot like the demons that attack raziel)
i cant remember if it was said if or how all the ancients died or dissapeared maybe some was taken in to the helden world and de-evloved like janos in the device, and these de-evloved ancients were enslaved by the helden. summing up (take a breath)
i think theres a chance janous becomes hash'ak'gik its a big jump but they look-alike when janos is de-evloved

[TheElderGodofNosgoth]

Some of that I agree with.

[Sarah]

Oo--but you left out the really "real" reason for BO2:$$$....
I am one of the few who really doesn't care why BO2 was made-it's a fun game, is selling rather well, is expanding the franchise nicely, and gave Simon Templeman(not to mention Paul Lukathor) a paycheck...
As for the more philosophical reasons for it being made:I wouldn't want to speculate on this, only to have either SR3 or BO3 ruin my preconceived notions.

[chuffy]

i was just thinking that my comment makes abit more sense because janos wanted to return the pillers to their makers, the vampires, and and hash wanted to get rid of the piller guardians and we never knew why. Could this be hash/janos's secret agenga?
the mind boggles.

chuffy