Online Gaming?

[Caduca]

Since Thief will be on next-gen consoles, does anyone here think they should include online modes. I.e Xbox live. As i stated in another post:

If the game is to be truly innovative like it has been in the past and bring in more gamers then perhaps new features could be involved and not waste the series. For example, Co-operative mode would make the missions more fun for some. And on the Xbox 360, perhaps online modes could be made where you can play as hammerites, keepers or pagans in a deathmatch or you compete in a thiefing mode playing as unknown thieves skulking around maps trying to get the most treasure with daggers to kill other thieves.

[kabatta]

No online, co-op and whatnot. We need a good editor. Anyway...wellcome to the clubbing clubb.

[Secondary]

i dont think online play would be innovative considering so many other games have it. the only innovation i think game scan make nowadays is plot, storytelling and gameplay. Thief was innovative at first, as a sneaker among a horde of shooters, a gemplay mechanic almost diametrically opposed to the current trend. all they need to do now is perfect it.

about whether or not to include online, not something have an opinion on until i see how it works, i didnt think Splinter cell could do it, but it did. if they can do it well, why not


but as long as they put all their energy in the single player mode first!

[Zahr Dalsk]

Originally Posted by Caduca

Since Thief will be on next-gen consoles

Oh, I hope not. Cross-platform brought nothing but bad things to Thief: Deadly Shadows. Sent Ion Storm out of business, as I recall, because they though console gamers would play Thief games and didn't care about the actual Thief community on PC.

[Hecateus]

The only cross platform I would support wrt/Thief, would be OnLive, which also would have excellent multiplayer capabilities, and none of the limitations which hobbled TDS.

[Matty101]

hey ppl my 1st post here, was thinking when i read this that theres no real multiplayer sneaking games. Ive seen other "stealth" games where the multiplayer is just a deathmatch game with singleplayer game models that has nothing to do with the single player story/style.

sooooo i sorta had an idea, its not fully fleshed out but is 2 game modes based on 2 different games, one is Race, i dunno if you guys played mirrors edge but theres no real multiplayer element other than race mode still its fun competing, also the game left for dead influences my second suggestion. Anyhow heres what i came up with:


Race mode:

have a set map for everyone, plays just like a normal single player except npc guard/loot locations are randomized for each players map instance so they cant just memorize a perfectly played map,main goal of map is escaping with main target loot piece/pieces the quickest.

Scoring: just a rough idea, depending on how maps were made these could change.
-Loot is set to say 10 points each piece.
-Escaping with final piece/pieces 1st=200 points, 2nd=150, 3rd=100(once the 3rd player has finished round ends)
-Each guard that shouts - 3 points
-Every intruder alarm(if there is any) set off is -50 to 100 points

Notes: on the side maybe have a score list of top 5 players that can be turned on and off with a special icon for players with main goal pieces that are heading for the mission exit. Also allow chat between players just for fun and allow a server side option for ghosting so ppl can see what other players are doing in the same map run(but the players cant interact each others map instance).

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Team mission mode:

2 teams 1 team is guards other is thieves, thieves must loot target objective in time to win map,All guards get boosts(damage bonus/revive NPC guard or "confidence charge" maybe)when thieves are caught/killed, Thieves get their own individual boosts from loot targets(say every 50 points of loot).

Guards:
-Npc guards that play like a single player mission does but on the ability "shout"(see below) or "alarming shout" will bring them if they are close enough.
-Heavy armour makes them walk slow
-Guards abilities/strength/damage is based on a "confidence" score that slowly dissapates over time.
-Maps are made with strong lights along a "patrol" route
-Lights give guards a "confidence" rating that slowly charges for say 15 seconds before you have to go to the next patrol route location/light charger,charge amount is shared if more that one player is in the light(to stop too many people guarding Loot goal).
-3 Classes, Bowman,Swordsman,Watchman

-Bowman abilities/equipment: Bow obviously, Shout(Targets a thief for other nearby guards to see easily,npc guards in the immediate vacinity will also react),
Eagle eye(Very slight zoom),Targeted shot(bigger damage,thief must be targeted by shout ability), flare arrows(also act like confidence lights/chargers), Dagger.

-Swordsman: Sword,Sprint(only works when a theif has been targeted by a shout),Shout(as above),Grab(can pull a player (ideally into light locations) for 3-5 seconds,must be targeted by shout),Insult(says random bad things to thief, taffer etc,doubles remaining confidence lvl, can only be used every minute),Light torch(relights extinguished light sorces)

-Watchman: Dagger, Alarming shout(works like normal shout but bigger radius for npc guards, may also have an area target effect for other nearby thieves),Torch/lantern(emits light/charge),Lock door(thieves must re-pick for entrance/exit),1 or 2 x Alarm mine(has the same affect as alarming shout when a theif walks close to it,has a lockpick defuse timer so thieves can stop it if quick enough),Heal.


Thieves:
-Abilities based on "stealth lvl" similar to a guards "confidence" but works for shadows/darkness the big difference is it only dissipates when in light and all darkness is an unlimited charge source.
-3 classes Rogue,Thief,Assassin

-Rogue: Blackjack,Bow,lockpick,smoke screen(as it sounds,removes "shout" targeting for anyone in smoke area),Flashbang arrow,other standard arrows(rope,moss,water)

-Thief: Blackjack,Bow,Speed pick(like lockpick but faster/easier),faster movement speed,light step(no footstep sounds),other standard arrows(rope,moss,water).

-Assassin: Blackjack,Bow,lockpick,poison arrows(higher damage,also damage over time when hit),poison dagger,other standard arrows(rope,moss,water).

*edit if theres physics type objects in game have an invisible stone type thing that you can throw for all 3 thief classes that will move objects and make noise as a diversion.

Notes: The idea here is something similar to the left 4 dead game, with player guards blending in with NPC guards(like the zombies) but also having some controll over them, this allows for a fully populated feel of a singleplayer thief map. Player guard abilities are also teamwork oriented, where as thief abilities are rather selfish and independant. Also by making the guards stick to the area with light it stops them from going where guards wouldnt normally go while allowing the thieves multiple ways to get in and out at their discretion.

[Hypevosa]

still cripples guards too much - they're dying left and right. It also doesn't address how to deal with thieves' stealthiness - true invisibility so that players can't gamma them out of shadows, or just let normal players see them?

My idea is in the thief multiplayer thread - somewhere abouts at least.

[Matty101]

using the light based system guards lose most combat abilities if they wander into the dark and thieves are the same for light, guards with cranked gamma standing under lights aren't gonna have a fun game since most of their screen will be white. I play a lot of multiplayer games and you can sneak up on someone with a knife in daylight so night just makes it that much easier. Also the guards team abilities like healing, targeting,sprinting and the assistance of npc guards would make it so that the thieves only real chance is stealth.

[littlektaffer]

I would really like to see Thief with a multiplayer option. I used to play Thievery and it was so much fun. It is more fun to play with other people imo. Plus when you died too many times you came back as a rat. Being a rat was my favorite way to play since I was a terrible Thievery player.

[Caduca]

Seeing the ideas you have come up with( Matty101 must get appraisal here) have left me wanting thief 4 2 include these gametypes. My ideas were only 2 get the ball rolling, but I think the gametypes suggested above would please many older fans and newcomers alike.

[jtr7]

More RPG elements and multiplayer. Some people know what I'm about to say.


Not in Thief 4, but lay in the networking and groundwork for the fans to make this, or a multiplayer expansion pack after making a proper Thief game first.

[PJMaybe]

Aye, the fans can easily create a good multiplayer game if the foundations are there. And EM can concentrate on making another awesome addition to the Thief series.

[Davehall380]

Originally Posted by jtr7

More RPG elements and multiplayer. Some people know what I'm about to say.


Not in Thief 4, but lay in the networking and groundwork for the fans to make this, or a multiplayer expansion pack after making a proper Thief game first.

Agreed. Got the strangest feeling of Deja Vu

[Caduca]

yeh, the problem with that letting the fans make the multiplayer is that it won't be a viable option to play thief on Xbox live that way.

[SlyPT]

Originally Posted by Caduca

yeh, the problem with that letting the fans make the multiplayer is that it won't be a viable option to play thief on Xbox live that way.

Believe me, most people who own Xbox's are kids, and will not be interested in Thief 4.
Not to mention online would remove all atmosphere from Thief 4.

I really think online is a bad idea, Thief is (and most likely will always be) a SP game.

[Matty101]

I think as long as you keep the sneak factor in and make thieves killing guards hard it may be possible to get something close. Keep in mind a LOT of games have multiplayer even though the single player character is a loner.
Even the most hardened fans have tried getting the multi to work so there at least must be some curiosity on how a good sneaking game can be played mutiplayer and still keep a feel. There seems to be a big stigma of "omg....dont add anything new just DONT UP THE GAME!!!!!", when ppl mention new things i think they obviously dont want to sacrifice any of the single player since that is the garrett character and we all love garrett. When they suggest additions, its to the game, not at the cost of it.

[jtr7]

I understand that people asking for more is with the intent to benefit themselves, not the game. The suggestions are steps away from the game, not an enhancement. It's been stated flatly too many times for the point to continue to be missed by those who want us to believe they've read the comments. Multiplayer is an add-on, it's not Thief, and should be treated as such. The big point being missed entirely and inexcusably is that the development time and budget are fixed unless the investors decide to tack on more. Development time is fixed. Let that sink in. Time spent building a good multiplayer game is time away from the proper game. Simple math. How is that not understood. What people would like to see added on should be left to the modders since Thief is its own thing, not a little of everything already being done everywhere. Thief is the groundbreaker the other games borrow from. Development time is fixed, the number of employees is fixed, and you are discounting playtesting that should be spent debugging proper Thief. It's frikkin' simple. The naysayers aren't just conservatives digging their heels in. You are asking for an inferior product packed full of preservatives at the expense of potential greatness. More more more more more, STOP! Look at reality, not what you think would be cool and what others are doing, and pay attention to the very real issues and the very things that force devs to make hard decisions in order to meet deadlines and make a playable, and hopefully enjoyable, and hopefully a hit game. I want Thief, not gimmick, not follow the leader, not a commercialized product that looks slick and has lots and lots of stuff. Let the modders turn the missions into jungle gyms.


Multiplayer is a different game, and Thief should come first. Why is that wrong?


Don't you see you are asking for something else? Don't you see you are asking for a cops & robbers game, not a character and story-driven game of one against the world, and that time spent on your "other" is time not spent on...THIEF? You can't have it all, and since this is a Thief forum, champion Thief as the number one priority, the rest comes later.

[Matty101]

uhhhh the game IS the ppl, without people there is no game, benefit to game =benifit to ppl,benefit to ppl = benefit to game, see how this works.

So your telling me if they manage to finish and polish everything on time(which is very possible using an existing engine) that you'd rather them sit on their hands rather than add some features that a big portion of the community wants?

Your right a budget and deadline is fixed but that is set by the scope of the project itself which still isn't set in stone. And if it is, it doesn't matter what we say now since the project goals are already defined.

I also just got through saying that thief should come first.

[Bossnagger]

co-op/vs if done right could be very fun

[DarknessFalls]

As I've mentioned a few times in the past: no multi-player for me, thanks. I'm tired of games with multi-player frag fests making single-player games a short, abbreviated, lame gameplay experience with horrible AI, shadows that don't do anything and the most linear experience you can imagine.

To try and make a multi-player experience that is remotely fun for Thief, if it's even possible, would take too much time and energy and detract too much from the single-player 'soul' and 'essence' of Thief, imo. I agree, let the fans develop it if it's such a dire need. I don't want EM's talents wasted on that endeavor.

[Namdrol]

I can not understand how Thief can be a multi player game.
Reading all the above posts doesn't clarify this.
Sure, you can make a game using the engine but is it Thief?
And why is it Thief?

[Matty101]

well what is thief?...to me its era(map style),story,creeping/sneaking and stealing.
In the race mode all of these things are in tact so much so that you could just use the campaign missions to play.
In guards vs thieves mode these again are all kept in tact and again you could use singleplayer campaign maps and story. The only difference being that theres multiple thieves and while your used to playing on your own, its not hard to imagine 2 or more thieves accidently hitting the same target.
As long as the gameplay feel of me hiding from guards, bypassing security, hiding in shadows and looting everything i find, the game would be essentually the same for me.

[zhunt]

online thief ?
group thieving?
Garrett, the loner, the self reliant, the mysterious is suddenly going to go down the pub, stand on a table and shout "Oi, im about to go break into a fricken huge mansion, lots of loot. I always do this on my own but for once i thought id like to share the loot with others cause i no longer care about feeding myself and making a living and to be honest, ive got a sore knee and my doctor said i should avoid lifting heavy things. ive even made these great "team garrett" capes, you can all have one if you join me, so lets syncronise watches, remove all noisy jangly shiny objects, and head down there shall we?"

please!

if you want to play multiplayer and death match, capture the flag or whatever else, go play quake or some other shooter.

garrett goes it alone, always has, always will. i dont see him teaming up with people and sharing the spoils!

cant u just see 2 people going for the same candlestick, then a fight starting over whos it is. gee, be careful, someone could lose an eye...................oppppsssss,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, too late

[Davehall380]

Originally Posted by zhunt

online thief ?
group thieving?
Garrett, the loner, the self reliant, the mysterious is suddenly going to go down the pub, stand on a table and shout "Oi, im about to go break into a fricken huge mansion, lots of loot. I always do this on my own but for once i thought id like to share the loot with others cause i no longer care about feeding myself and making a living and to be honest, ive got a sore knee and my doctor said i should avoid lifting heavy things. ive even made these great "team garrett" capes, you can all have one if you join me, so lets syncronise watches, remove all noisy jangly shiny objects, and head down there shall we?"

please!

if you want to play multiplayer and death match, capture the flag or whatever else, go play quake or some other shooter.

garrett goes it alone, always has, always will. i dont see him teaming up with people and sharing the spoils!

cant u just see 2 people going for the same candlestick, then a fight starting over whos it is. gee, be careful, someone could lose an eye...................oppppsssss,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, too late

FPS viewpoint doesnt mean that online multiplayer has to be like quake, or indeed tied into the storyline. Watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2P4hKjTfIo

Obviously, its a little rough. The point here is to illustrate the concept of multiplayer for Thief - teamwork and co-operation. This has been covered before.

[Matty101]

When i mention teams in my post it was in a guards vs thieves respect...thats not to say that the thieves are a team...they just..well aren't the guards, you'll notice in my suggestions there is almost no teamwork between thieves in fact i made mention that their abilities are purely in a selfish regard. Nor was deathmatch or CTF ever mentioned.
My main reason for wanting multiplayer is no matter how good the guard AI is, its never going to beat a real person, and thats who i want to sneak by, a real person.