Audio implimentation

[imperialreign]

Now, I know this will probably ignite a flamewar, but . . .

I'd really like to see further EAX support - that was one of the highlights, IMHO, of TDS - support of EAX 4.0HD.

Thief has always been about having a very believable and amazing audio implimentation, and I'm truly hoping that we'll see this further supported with the new title.

Now, for all the Creative bashers out there - please realize that most games that do support EAX allow you the option of disabling the feature.

As well, OpenAL supports many of the same audio calls found in EAX through EAX 5.0HD (including many calls that are specific only to the Sound Blaster X-Fi models). Why, it's that cross-support that has allowed for Creative's ALchemy software to give us some form of hardware support in Vista . . . and as well for many other manufacturer's to develop their own form of "support" for EAX.

Asides, I've noticed over the many, many long years of PC gaming, that games where the audio is developed well alongside the game's development, end up with an amazing level of immersion - look at the Thief series, first . . . then take a look at a title like FEAR - great audio was paramount in making FEAR as effective as it was . . . look as well at Black & White, or even, dare I say, Crysis. Say what you want about the Crytek engine, I have to give them the credit that the developed a highly effective audio engine within their game engine - capable of many levels of effects, distance effects, environmental reverb, occlusion, etc.

Titles where the audio support just seems like an afterthought truly don't stand out all as well - Doom3 and Quake4 quickly spring to mind, where EAX 4.0HD was tacked on via a patch after the initial release . . . as well, STALKER had many, many shortcomings, IMO. In contrast, two titles that are extreme opposites of each other, IMO, would be CoD4:MW and CoD5:WaW - CoD4 sounded great, while WaW just seemed so lacking many times . . .

So - all I'm asking for is to see support for EAX 5.0HD - let T4 become one of the few titles to make use of that library . . . let it be, like it's predecessors, a shining example of superb audio implimentation. Don't let great audio support become merely an after thought, give us superb environmental effects, as well as high-quality in-game audio.

I want to see my audio card work it's tail off for once!!! Quite letting the GPUs have all the fun!!!

[jtr7]

I wouldn't mind it if something like it worked on cards other than Creative, as well, if possible. I would hope there would be rudimentary reverberation settings and enhanced propagation in the game anyway. I like EAX, but only when it works and doesn't interfere with game-world's sounds, and just enhances the experience and increases immersion. Has nobody created an OpenSource emulator, yet, or a universal app that gets in the ballpark, especially for people without a Creative card? Where's the technology at, right now?

[imperialreign]

Open source is available - it's called OpenAL.

I'ts a stand-alone open source audio API that works alongside the OSes APIs at the OS kernel.

It's (for lack of a better example), the OpenGL of the audio world.

OpenAL also includes support for many of the audio calls found in EAX 5.0HD, and fully supports EAX 2.0/3.0.


Thing is, every audio developer is more than capable of adding to the API and expanding it, as well as helping develop it - but, Creative have been the only who've really done so (as well as nVidia and Apple). But, even if other manufacturer's don't help with development, they can still support and utilize it - actually, TBH, there have been many games that do support OpenAL (although many don't make full use of it's capabilities; i.e. STALKER), and nearly 95% of all audio cards support OpenAL - whether manufactured by Creative, ASUS, Auzentech, HT Omega, C-Media, Razer, Sondigo, Turtle Beach, etc.

So - the software is there . . . it's available . . . EAX 5.0HD isn't a necessity, but, it'd be nice . . . TBH, the game could easily support both API implimentations - it'd be a little more work, but it'd make everyone happy.

[jtr7]

Thanks.

One thing we keep forgetting is the funding these companies provide to the game developer to use their products.

It would be a bold move to stop letting Creative buy rights. I don;t know if there's an overarching contractual obligation, or if it's renewed on a game-by-game basis.

[imperialreign]

I'm not entirelly sure how Creative work their EAX licensing - TBH, I think it's a "per-title" basis.

OpenAL, though, wouldn't require anything more than the devs time . . . no licensing or royalty fees . . . just the time investment of learning and implimenting the API.


TBH, I can live without the EAX 5 support - as much as it'd be nice to see an awesome title join the selective ranks of those that support v5 - the biggest thing I'm concerned with is "hearing" great audio development . . . whether it's done in-house, or they use a 3rd party library set (i.e. EAX) . . .

High-quality audio is a key factor to immersiveness that a lot of devs tend to overlook - it's that final layer of polish on a great title. Just a great ambient score, and world ambient sounds can do absolute wonders for a title (ask those who've used some of my STALKER mods ) . . .

[jtr7]

Many of us were shocked to find that BioShock lacked decent sound occlusion. For a game newer than TDP, the poor propagation and absorption of sound by the environment suddenly made the concept seem novel and special and difficult to implement. I would've thought it would be standard. Even TDS needed a programmer to build Thief's use of sound into it. I was surprised it wasn't already there, and it seems to mean that Thief is doing something the industry doesn't bother with which we've come to take for granted. If the new engine needs Thief-world sound hacked into it, I hope they can improve upon it, including spaces that reverberate "naturally."

[imperialreign]

Well - you bring up another excellent point.

Surpisingly enough, Bioshock utilized EAX 5.0HD (which was a newer version than used with TDS).

Which title had better in-game sound?


It all revolves around the amount of effort that devs put into the audio implimentation - merely paying for EAX licensing and slapping it in place does not qualify as being "good." Quite the contrary.

See, for each "environment" the reverb and occlusion tables can be tweaked - I've seen many games, though, where the devs left these tables at their default setting . . . instead of adjusting each "environment" for how it appears in-game, or to accompany the general "tone" they're trying to accomplish . . .

Doom3 is another pristine example of such "tacked-on" support . . . I can't count the number of rooms that sound like you're running down a metal cylinder, then all of a sudden, in an adjoining space, it sound like you've run into an empty theater hall . . .

Here, you'll find a good break-down of general audio and in-game usage, and also have a look at some of the settings found with just EAX 2.0: http://www.csounds.com/maldonado/Man...undpcodes.html

And, the list of "defaults":

GENERIC
PADDEDCELL
ROOM
BATHROOM
LIVINGROOM
STONEROOM
AUDITORIUM
CONCERTHALL
CAVE
ARENA
HANGAR
CARPETEDHALLWAY
HALLWAY
STONECORRIDOR
ALLEY
FOREST
CITY
MOUNTAINS
QUARRY
PLAIN
PARKINGLOT
SEWERPIPE
UNDERWATER
DRUGGED
DIZZY
PSYCHOTIC

But, as much as these are defaults, I again stress that each "environment" must be "tuned" for the game itself.


EAX 5.0 goes far beyond that meager list, as well as gives the ability to add a couple of "environments" to a specific room or space - instead of just one . . . as well, EAX 5.0 also allows for sound eminating from an adjoing space to be affected by that space's sound, as well as by the space the actor (player) is standing in . . . letting adjoining spaces affect the sound as one would percieve it (this is done somewhat in TDS, especially in Shalebridge).

Then there's also occlusion values - which is a whole seperate ballpark.

[jtr7]

If they could nail the sound, and if they could make it award-winning and completely Thiefy, I would hope they would make that decision. Sound is critical, CRITICAL! Third-party software a player could download to tap into the EAX settings on their non-Creative card would be fantastic.