Rope Arrow: Magic Vs Mechanical

[Hypevosa]

Simple query, should the arrows remain the magic disintegrating rope that they were in the first games? Or should we move to actually having a rope attached?

A magical rope is more convenient, because the arrows are recollectible, and remove all trace of being there.

A mechanical rope arrow allows us to easily tie the rope to things, and assures we never fire the rope too far for it to fall (we can stand on the end of it), but interferes with making the shot (the arrow is significantly slowed, and the rope would throw off accuracy drastically).

A magical arrow could be primed to release the rope first, allowing us to do all the things the mechanical one does, but still allow for quick and evidenceless collection.

[jtr7]

If you could please refrain from adding commentary to the poll itself, you'd get more cooperative responses.

You left me no choices but refraining or old school style.

With magic and alchemy in a FANTASY game, you have more freedom to express yourself in the game. Having it trail a rope, or connecting one end to anything tethers it to stricter rules and is also not realistic. The power to propel that arrow needs to be more than his bow could produce, and it still wouldn't bear his weight. Freedom of movement is a higher priority than imposing false reality on a fantasy element.

[Hypevosa]

I like the idea of creating a zipline and having horizontal movement, instead of strictly vertical movement. While it is limited in terms of feasibility, it allows for maximum player movement, which I would like.

I thought these were the primary options and reasons for said options

If you want I'll delete the thread and make one with more diverse options?

[DiegoFloor]

A really dynamical rope would be incredibly fun! Swing.. slide from a side to the other.. pull things with it

[jtr7]

Not more diverse options, just stop adding your personal opinion to the choices, hahaha. Magical, Mechanical, Both. Make it multiple choice for Horizontal and vertical movement or Vertical movement only, as well.



I don't think the rope arrows necessary for horizontal movement, and you'd have to change how you retrieve it for when the player screws up. A zipline won't work without Garrett's side being higher than the other, unless you work in hand-over-hand movement, sound, animation. Every new thing you want to use the rope for requires it's own set of programming with it's own bugs, glitches, and quirks, and once again, means a great deal of time spent making things to the detriment of the basics. But if you wanna brainstorm without limitations... The rope-climbing programming could be used for giant spider webs, fish nets, gig lines, mooring ropes, crane cables, power-lines (yes, there are power-lines in Thief, just not the kind with poles), clothes lines, tree vines, Subjective Effect's tripwires, booby-trap mines, tying up hostages, building a raft, hanging a man, tying a dog to a tree, laying down a long fuse to light to give you cover from an explosion you're about to cause.

[Espion]

I'd like to see dog tying in the game. Very few games really give you a good opportunity to tie up dogs. Especially to trees

I like the idea of being able to use rope arrows horizontally. Maybe hand-over-hand instead of ziplining though.

I think it's fair to say that the team will have a set amount of time to make additions to the basic mechanics. This is something that I think fits with the game well enough to be looked into... And to be honest, I'd like to see Garrett have the ability to climb objects in the environment, so long as it makes sense that he could do so. (Without the need for "special" gloves.)

[DiegoFloor]

I was working at a casual game prototype that used rope physics. Of course, keep in mind that it's nothing like Thief at all! but just to give a general idea of how much fun a more dynamical rope can be.

I've made these videos as a work in progress log, so they are not only showing different aspects but are also in different stages of development.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utIVUDVGLkU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-CnYr2jSoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eehUli9B-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efM1-tzjf5A

[esme]

tie rope arrow to dog, aim rope arrow at bottom of chasm, fire, dog looks on with interest then rope goes tight, YIIIIIIKKKKKkkkkkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee................

[jtr7]

Spider-Taffer, Spider-Taffer...

[13LACK13ISHOP]

How could it be mechanical. It cannot store that much rope in one arrow. Nor could it be fired.

Also zip lines would be cool. Could only work in small spaces though unless the rope goes on till it touches a surface.

[esme]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Spider-Taffer, Spider-Taffer...

OH YESSSSSS tie rope to spider shoot rope arrow up high, use spider as piñata

[esme]

Originally Posted by 13LACK13ISHOP

How could it be mechanical. It cannot store that much rope in one arrow. Nor could it be fired.

Also zip lines would be cool. Could only work in small spaces though unless the rope goes on till it touches a surface.

modern interpretations of rope arrows like this one at http://www.saa-intl.com/crossbow.htm have a very light trailing line attached

it's not beyond the bounds of credibility to have a more heavyweight version with a light trailing line that is looped through the arrow so you can fire it into a tree have it catch and use the loop to pull a climbing rope through the arrow so you can climb the tree easily

the rope isn't stored in the arrow though its coiled on the floor by the archer

--EDIT--

found a launched climbing grapnel on the same site DOH ! 2 seconds after I posted too

http://www.saa-intl.com/climb.htm

[Subjective Effect]

What about Mechanical but can also use as a zip line?

[Captain567]

Who cares whether it's mechanical or magical? The real question is do you want to be able to create ziplines or otherwise lateral movement, no need to complicate it

[CurtX]

I prefer "mysterious", which is what all the special arrows were and how they should remain. We need no explanation of how exactly everything works. That's like the new Star Wars explaining how the force works. Not a good idea.

[Flashart]

I always assumed rope arrows were mechanical and vine arrows (slightly) magical.
I was one that initially thought of using rope arrows horizontally, but the more I think about it, the more problems I can see. You'd have a problem retrieving them if you'd tied one end. Or, I suppose you could have two arrows, one on each end of the rope, take two shots and retrieve as normal. I thought also as using them as tripwires but I think it might cause too many "pathfinding" problems for the guards AI.
I still like the idea of using a moss arrow then a vine arrow to allow the vine to "take" to a wider variety of surfaces. (I've mentioned a suggested "Airship" mission, this would be a great way to move on the outside of the craft, as you couldn't use arrows that would pierce, it'd be very tense.)

[Blade_hunter]

I don't know but we could have different "rope" arrows or ropes depending on the utility

-The standard rope arrow would work like the old games.
-A new arrow I think that could be called the link arrow, we need two of them to form a rope that connects the two arrows, where we can walk or slide on it depending how we use it, we need wooden points to place arrows.
-Also an item that could be a repel cord, thieves doesn't need always to use rope arrows

[13LACK13ISHOP]

Originally Posted by esme

modern interpretations of rope arrows like this one at http://www.saa-intl.com/crossbow.htm have a very light trailing line attached

it's not beyond the bounds of credibility to have a more heavyweight version with a light trailing line that is looped through the arrow so you can fire it into a tree have it catch and use the loop to pull a climbing rope through the arrow so you can climb the tree easily

the rope isn't stored in the arrow though its coiled on the floor by the archer

--EDIT--

found a launched climbing grapnel on the same site DOH ! 2 seconds after I posted too

http://www.saa-intl.com/climb.htm

Yea but it would be a bit ugly with all the rope dangling while its in the air. Not as fancy as the theif rope arrows.

[Zahr Dalsk]

I refuse to answer vague poll.

However: I'd like vine and rope to be just the same as they were in TMA.

[jtr7]

Yes, but a vine arrow requires Viktoria or someone with her magic, so something has to be changed or introduced or resurrected. Yeah, I like the vine arrows, too.


It should be noted, again, that there are limited slots for weapons key-binds, and different kinds within the same categories would mean forcing the player to choose one or the other before a mission or, Builder forbid, force the player to scroll through the weapons as with inventory items. Not very quick and easy.

[Hypevosa]

In TMA they just had rope arrows completely replaced by vine arrows. I didn't mind it so much as they were better, but I remember after a certain level they were transformed into rope arrows... don't remember which. You could just press the rope arrow button again to toggle vine vs rope arrows.

[jtr7]

Wait. What?

[Hypevosa]

TMA.... sorry.

in TMA the levels had either vine or rope arrows, never both. I'm saying if you wanted to include rope and vine arrows at the same time, making vine only one use and rope multiple use but less surfaces can use it, then you could have the player just hit the 8 key (traditional rope arrow key) once to select rope arrows, and another time to select vine.

[jtr7]

Yes, but the number of rope types mentioned were more than two, nad as you know, no more than one were ever available in a mission. And to choose between about four different types needs to be a single tap of a single key for those moments when the player doesn't have a second to lose.

[Hypevosa]

I honestly can't ever recall a situation where my use of a rope arrow was high pressure enough that I couldn't double tap the 8 key >_>