What do you FEAR for Thief 4?

[Hamadriyad]

Stealthy gameplay is dead? When did it die?

[Quad]

Simply put, my biggest fear is that EM doesn't/won't/can't listen to the many suggestions of the many hardcore taffers who know their stuff and who know exactly what the pro's and contra's are.

Can you imagine how many players will lose their soul/believe/hope when Thief IV hits the shelves, only to find out that after 9 years of begging, their voice isn't heared ... AGAIN ?

Can somebody tell me why ?


The most important points are on another thread : "FOR THE DEVS: What was wrong with TDS you may ask?"

But if I don't have to fear, because if the devs DO listen to us, then people, the world of Thief is in good hands again !

[Yaphy]

Dont be to sure about that. Some games go straight down because the devs listen to much on the fans. Remember that its more people that will buy this game then the folks here on this forum. People that isnt hardcore fans or even know the previouse games at all. Many people will still buy the game because it seems intresting. But this can go wrong if the devs listen to much at the fans it might be a bad game at the end. Its good to brainstorm though, give eachother ideas and inspire the devs. But games has been horrible before because of the to nice and listening devs.

[Quad]

After T2, I've been wishing for T3 for so long. The same thing happenend back then: a forum was opened with suggestions/ideas. Guess what: TDS happened... and I can assure you I felt robbed after 30 minutes playing, not being heared. I don't care about that thing. So if this is my chance to let my voice heared, I will do it and with more strength than ever before, because what we want is pretty simple.

What I want is exactly what GManPro described (and myself) and a lot of others who took the time to let themselves being heared. To take a chance.

Dev's are humans too. I hope that we are taken into concideration this time. If not, then next time, EM might as well make a forum which denies access to hardcore taffers with the message : "Don't mention TDP or TMA or you'll be permanently banned!"

So, don't stimulate the suggestions for another TDS. Stimulate the real Thief.

[Yaphy]

Yes, you are right. We need to be heard, and I want to be heard to. I'm just saying its not as simple as it sounds. They need to find a balance, thats all. Please give more sugestions so they can make the best Thief game ever, but dont think it will be that just because they listen to all the people who think they know all about game development.

[Quad]

Clearly defining the lines of what the devs will make, isn't an easy task imo. The problem or "the fear" I have are the visions and experiences of the devs themselves when it comes to feeling the Thief-universe. Do we have confirmation that every 80 of them played through all the Thief games ? Do they actually WANT to be a thief ? Because if not, how on earth will they understand what all the rambling of the hardcore players is about ? Ghosts from the past still trying to hount the "fresh" and "young" minds of today who are eager to put their own soul into the game, making it "their" Thief and ending up with something "they" like and who couldn't care less for the sad desillusioned reactions of people like me? It's not even unrealistic to believe that those people who do like TDS, won't be disappointed at all with ANY new Thief game. If they liked TDS, then they might as well like anything with that name on it. Easy people to please, I hope?

That's why suggestions for a better Thief IV on other threads are so important. It's the only thing we have. We make it easy for them. Very easy.

I am not better in any field (or maybe graphics as a hobby) than the devs, let that be understood. It's not my task to take that into account, although I am by no means an idiot, so I do know a little about it. Some things are too difficult or time-consuming to ask. Others are not because they basically fall back on the technology of 8 years ago. I don't think you have to be a genius to see what is doable and what not.

[Yaphy]

Its not really sure that everyone of the devs has played the previouse games. But I sertainly hope so.
*waiting for answer from René in the Citywatch thread!

[met4baron]

Originally Posted by Quad

Clearly defining the lines of what the devs will make, isn't an easy task imo. The problem or "the fear" I have are the visions and experiences of the devs themselves when it comes to feeling the Thief-universe. Do we have confirmation that every 80 of them played through all the Thief games ? Do they actually WANT to be a thief ? Because if not, how on earth will they understand what all the rambling of the hardcore players is about ? Ghosts from the past still trying to hount the "fresh" and "young" minds of today who are eager to put their own soul into the game, making it "their" Thief and ending up with something "they" like and who couldn't care less for the sad desillusioned reactions of people like me? It's not even unrealistic to believe that those people who do like TDS, won't be disappointed at all with ANY new Thief game. If they liked TDS, then they might as well like anything with that name on it. Easy people to please, I hope?

That's why suggestions for a better Thief IV on other threads are so important. It's the only thing we have. We make it easy for them. Very easy.

I am not better in any field (or maybe graphics as a hobby) than the devs, let that be understood. It's not my task to take that into account, although I am by no means an idiot, so I do know a little about it. Some things are too difficult or time-consuming to ask. Others are not because they basically fall back on the technology of 8 years ago. I don't think you have to be a genius to see what is doable and what not.

i agree to every single point

and now... DEV...read this and MAKE THE BEST OF IT

cheers

-michael-

[Reyn]

More on the evolution that DS took, less of what made 1 & 2 so intimate and unique. It's all in what the developers (or maybe publishers) feel is more important. Integrity, respect for roots? or $$$?

I'm going out on a limb here because I'm new, I don't know any other Thief fans yet, but I'd like to think we see this more as an artform and don't want it turned into more of a "product".

[kabatta]

Ok..now i tought of wikkan type pagans and got creeped out. Not my precious pagans.
(no religious discrimination intended)

[Squid]

Originally Posted by Quad

Clearly defining the lines of what the devs will make, isn't an easy task imo. The problem or "the fear" I have are the visions and experiences of the devs themselves when it comes to feeling the Thief-universe. Do we have confirmation that every 80 of them played through all the Thief games?

Just a side note... to my recollection, most of the developers of TDS played the previous two games. So, whether they play all of the previous games is no guarantee that what we'll see in T4 will bear any resemblance to the previous three.

I do remember that before TDS came out we had the same concerns about it that we now have about T4. TDS, I think we can all agree, did not turn out like T1&2... there were elements of it we liked, and elements we didn't like. Whether you like the game or not, you can see that it turned out very different from the previous two.

Squid

[RAMMONS444]

Originally Posted by Sinclair

I fear:

- overly sophisticated gameplay, graphics, bells & whistles, etc. that divert attention away from a good storyline and characters. When I recall my favorite games it's almost always the gameplay and story that make it memorable.
- not having Stephen Russell's voice for Garrett
- no briefings in black&white between missions
- not enough effort put into sound design
- missions being too short
- the overall game being too short
- not having optional secrets
- game design being too linear (having freedom to complete the mission in more than one way is better).
- finally, I don't want to see it too much like T1,2,3. It's important to retain the look and feel of the early games, but some change can be good. I think I could even accept a different time period, but would definately prefer the steam-punk age, or similar.

Definitely - not having Stephen Russell's voice for Garrett
and
- finally, I don't want to see it too much like T1,2,3. It's important to retain the look and feel of the early games, but some change can be good. I think I could even accept a different time period, but would definately prefer the steam-punk age, or similar.

[ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ]

I fear;

- How angry the children will be when they realise Thief 4 is a proper sequel and not a rehash of the original two games!

At the same time it is pretty funny as well of course.

[Pieter888]

Originally Posted by jtr7

What was broken that needs fixing?

Nothing really, but you can polish what has been made already.

The only real change would be the story and missions.
Things they could improve for instance is:

• Atmosphere
• Shadow effects
• AI's
• Apperance
• fluid animation
• etc.

[lolpants]

I fear guys like the one in this thread. Releasing in incomplete games is the cancer killing video games. The guy in this thread already expects it and hopes for it.

[ToMegaTherion]

That is quite an impressive misreading of a thread. Good work!

[lolpants]

Originally Posted by ToMegaTherion

That is quite an impressive misreading of a thread. Good work!

Assuming you were speaking to me, note these:

A, 8 new missions continuing the T4 story
B, 8 new missions with a new "mini-story"
C, 8 new individual missions
Finally, any "extra content"? Interviews, Artwork, Soundtrack etc

All of these are things that should/could be included in the original game. I'm sick of developers releasing two thirds of a game and then coughing up the last 1/3rd in "DLC" (a la Fallout 3). 5 expansions x $19.99 = $100 for about 1/3rd of a game. And don't get me started on The Sims.

[ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ]

Originally Posted by jtr7

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1854362


Educate yourself and move forward. And the ironic 'children' statement makes a different kind of statement.

I don't post on TTLG, I have no reason to post amongst a bunch of idiots who ban and warn others who want to defend Thief Deadly Shadows from a "good ol'" zealot-bashing. The amount of DS-bashing on there is ridiculous and you guys are hostile to anyone who dares like Deadly Shadows, so you have to "ROFLCOPTER THIS GUY IS A TROLL" them out of the forum with some sly put-downs from resident troll ZylonBane.

Ridiculous, and your loss, as you fail to ADAPT to newer games which are as good as the originals. They do not "suck" because they differ from them.

[Telex]

Originally Posted by ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ

Ridiculous, and your loss, as you fail to ADAPT to newer games which are as good as the originals. They do not "suck" because they differ from them.

TDS was not as good as the originals. The only way this argument can be made would be in terms of graphics, which is ridiculous as they were released so far apart. I don't think TDS sucked because it differed from the originals, I think it wasn't great because of numerous glitches and a buggy interface. That being said, it was a good game.

You yourself seem to be incredibly interested in picking a fight with those who do not share your views in terms of which game is the best. Strike you as hypocritical?

[ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ]

Originally Posted by Telex

TDS was not as good as the originals.

I like how you class your opinion as fact. Your opinion matters to no one only you.

You yourself seem to be incredibly interested in picking a fight with those who do not share your views in terms of which game is the best. Strike you as hypocritical?

Opinion = picking a fight?

Take a chill pill. You should be able to handle a response on the forum without getting personal. If you can't stick to the topic I'll just not respond to your posts.

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ

I like how you class your opinion as fact. Your opinion matters to no one only you.

It is an opinion and was never stated as absolute fact, only you say this. Also, OP added to their comment, so you need to read all of the message rather than quoting and responding to only one small part of it - this avoids misinterpretation.

Opinion = picking a fight?

Take a chill pill. You should be able to handle a response on the forum without getting personal. If you can't stick to the topic I'll just not respond to your posts.

If you hold your own opinion as relevant, then you must do the same for others. If you wish to tell someone that they should handle a response on a forum without getting personal, then you need to practice what you preach otherwise it is hypocrisy. Please read your posts as if it were someone else responding to you and if it sounds like it could be taken the wrong way, edit it and then hit the post button. It helps to take your time.

[Telex]

Originally Posted by ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ

I like how you class your opinion as fact. Your opinion matters to no one only you.

Hah, okay. Seeing as you won't allow me to present a counterpoint to your argument without getting defensive, I'm going to let it go.

Anyway, this has diverged off-topic enough already. My BIGGEST fear for T4 has got to be one word: cancellation. That or seeing it become vaporware.

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by Telex

My BIGGEST fear for T4 has got to be one word: cancellation. That or seeing it become vaporware.

I certainly doubt T4 will be cancelled, but I understand your fear as it isn't an unknown occurence in the gaming world.

[CerraMorgan]

EEK! Don't even suggest cancellation!

My biggest fear is that T4 will be as disappointing as TDS. Note that I'm not saying "as bad as" because there were some things in TDS that I did like, in particular the fact that someone actually took the time to make it.

Bottom line - no matter what happens, I'll probably buy it anyway, assuming that there is a PC version. I've got fingers, toes, eyes, and everything else crossed that it's at least as good as TMA (my favourite of the 3) and hopefully awesomely better given the advances in technology since then.

[ToMegaTherion]

Originally Posted by lolpants

Assuming you were speaking to me, note these:

All of these are things that should/could be included in the original game. I'm sick of developers releasing two thirds of a game and then coughing up the last 1/3rd in "DLC" (a la Fallout 3). 5 expansions x $19.99 = $100 for about 1/3rd of a game. And don't get me started on The Sims.

So let's suppose that 8 new missions continuing the T4 story are included in the original game. Then how about an expansion pack containing another 8 new missions continuing the T4 story. Oh wait, they should be included in the original game as well! And so on.

Expansion packs containing extra missions have been around for years, and aren't at all considered unacceptable (when priced right). There's nothing at all poisonous about them. They involve the designers making new stuff. If they've put enough stuff in the main game for it to be worth its price, and then they make some more stuff later, it seems quite reasonable to pay them for their services.