What do you FEAR for Thief 4?

[DarknessFalls]

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[DarknessFalls]

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[Hypevosa]

It's not really a game so much as a perpetual quicktime event with movies... it's far to cinematic and not enough game. The same issue I had with FFXIII was how much it felt like a movie instead of a videogame.

[DarknessFalls]

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[Duski]

What I fear:
- Too easy
- Too linear, one route, no freedom
- Bad AI
- No rope arrows
- Levels divided into loading zones
- Too small levels
- Trying to make it a game for everyone by watering down challenges
- Guards running out of breath, come on! The excitement is IN the chase and if you can get away, but when guards just stop every now and then it just kills it.

What I wish:
- Immersion
- Scary AI, torches etc, everything to pin thief down; but not cheating!
- Mood that keeps you on the edge
- Good story

I don't care as much if main character is Garrett or not, as long as I can get into that character. That is big part of immersion and personally for me it means 1st person is a must. I don't care if 3rd person is included as well, I'd never touch it.

Thief 3 was too easy in every way and I hated that levels were divided in several loading zones. That loading breaks immersion and is unnecessary for PC. Story was still good though.

[Duski]

Originally Posted by Jack Lantern

That's actually my main beef really. Given what we learned about Garrett over the course of three games, Garrett would have interest in training someone for... what reason, exactly? It doesn't fit his personality at all. And supposing he does retire at some point, there is still no incentive for him to pass on his skills to someone else.

In essence, what we learn about Garrett in TDS makes the Garrett I've come to know after T1 and 2 less interesting. To me, Garrett was interesting because he was the lone wolf.

I disagree somewhat. Garrett has deep sense of duty or just stubborness, even if he denies it and claims otherwise. Still, you always find him saving the day after all, simply because he wants to see things through. Yeah, he hates the fact that it's him who the responsibility has fallen, but nevertheless he follows through it while complaing before and after. No one really forced him to go after Trickster, although he can claim it as revenge. Even less in Metal Age, he could have just legged it out of the city and restart elsewhere, but decides to follow through it all. Well, he did not like the way City was developing... but that alone doesn't mean he should do something for it. Etc.

So if he makes the "mistake" of teaching that girl something, then he'll just as easily teach her everything, he's not the kind of guy to do things half-heartedly. Also after all it is a very human thing to pass your knowledge on, I don't find it unlikely. Never hurts to have someone with gratitude in dangerous business.

[Webby]

I fear, like most classic games these days, that it will be made to cater for console users.

The original game was made for the PC, Thief is better played on a PC and therefore it should be made with PC as it primary platform. Let the console users get the short end of the stick for a change.

Oh yeah, and i also fear they'll have those stupid gloves in the next game.

I do have to say that i liked the Cradle mission in TDS, it was kind of a step up from the haunted hammer temple in the previous game... Thief : Gold i think. While the graphics arent much by todays standard, the atmosphere was awesome, totally on edge all the way through, and most of it was just from the sound effects, not enemies. I really hope that they can keep that level of.... well, scariness to the game, if you know what i mean.

[ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ]

Originally Posted by Webby

I fear, like most classic games these days, that it will be made to cater for console users.

The original game was made for the PC, Thief is better played on a PC and therefore it should be made with PC as it primary platform. Let the console users get the short end of the stick for a change.

Oh yeah, and i also fear they'll have those stupid gloves in the next game.

I do have to say that i liked the Cradle mission in TDS, it was kind of a step up from the haunted hammer temple in the previous game... Thief : Gold i think. While the graphics arent much by todays standard, the atmosphere was awesome, totally on edge all the way through, and most of it was just from the sound effects, not enemies. I really hope that they can keep that level of.... well, scariness to the game, if you know what i mean.

I found the Cradle to be more cookie-cutter than a lot of newer games that come out nowadays. That doesn't mean to say it wasn't brilliant. It was cliched, quite repetitive and tried to be too "jumpy" like horror movies from around that time. I don't find "jumpy" scary, scary to me is something more atmospheric like the mysterious Abysmal Gale level.

The Cradle was still great fun but it was flawed, it's not the perfect level like many equate it to.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ

I found the Cradle to be more cookie-cutter than a lot of newer games that come out nowadays. That doesn't mean to say it wasn't brilliant. It was cliched, quite repetitive and tried to be too "jumpy" like horror movies from around that time. I don't find "jumpy" scary, scary to me is something more atmospheric like the mysterious Abysmal Gale level.

The Cradle was still great fun but it was flawed, it's not the perfect level like many equate it to.

Yeah i get what you mean, but it was more about the sound effects for me as i said. Your right in that the level design could use some work, but from a sound point of view, i thought it was quality. I liked the Abysmal Gale level too, though it was a bit short.

[JFSOCC]

I fear that the Devs will listen to this community without thought, and implement ideas based on popularity instead of merit.

[kin]

Originally Posted by JFSOCC

I fear that the Devs will listen to this community without thought, and implement ideas based on popularity instead of merit.

The devs are not stupid

[DarknessFalls]

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[Hypevosa]

Who on earth said they wanted less puzzles?!

We should send them a mixed up rubiks cube in the mail with a note saying it would blow up their block if they didn't keep spinning it until it was solved.

That should keep them busy.

[JFSOCC]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Ironically, JFOSCC says words that mirror many of my exact concerns, but at a totally different angle. Run'n'gun and kewlness and 3rd-person cinematic action hero and sandbox stuff is popular, mainstream, and is where the money is, and those here who advocate popular kewl stuff, and more ways to kill and maim, and want more destruction and less puzzles for a Thief game are people I don't want EM to listen to in any serious way.

I actually agree on part of that. no Run'n'gun, no 3rd person stuff, I don't care for killing becoming a game staple either. nore less puzzles. I'm neutral on destruction, but I think it's the mark of an amateur.

[Babu Na'ar Marc]

What i fear is a sequel that is what turns out to for a completly new be a money driven rebbot that sacrifices everything for a completely new "game" that the only thing reminiscent of the old series is the back story... or it chooses to dump that... *SHUDDER*

[Davehall380]

A remake of The Haunted Cathedral . . .

[Devices]

Originally Posted by mokoko

Too much zombie(I don't fear them but they're decreasing the atmosphere of game reality).

I hated the zombies in deadly shadows and stopped playing after a few zombie levels

more I fear:
- the same or worse AI
- levels devided

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Devices

- the same or worse AI
- levels devided

Those both were implemented in TDS. They divided the levels and made the AI worse. I don't think EM can do worse than that in those areas.

[AlexOfSpades]

Originally Posted by jtr7

And no explanation was given for the dislike of the zombies.

Is it a dislike of magic and supernatural? Sorry, the Thief Universe is rife with it. It's the norm, there.
Is it because of the misperception that Thief is a game about a guy who mostly steals things from guarded places?
Is it because they were the easiest AI to cope with in gameplay? Run past with ease, flashbomb or holy water arrow them in groups, etc.
Is it because emotional reaction prevented realization of how easy they are to cope with? A percentage of players find them too disturbing on a primal level, and either never learn how to deal with them or can't muster the courage.

The answer is B

[sinephase]

I think everybody really hit it on the head here. No way I'm going to read every page though :P so if no one has mentioned the team not familiarizing itself with TDP and TMA and even major, popular fanmods then I guess I just added it to the list
also the DRM thing generally doesn't bother me because I have no qualms downloading something to just bypass it on a game that I OWN anyway, and it would become available guaranteed, which in the end is the best argument for them not to bother with too much DRM in the first place.

[negative_len]

Which elements of Thief 4 will EM get right? Which will they bungle? Which of our criticisms will they listen to? You decide! It is time to make a new set of prophecies, so give me your predictions. Be as brief or verbose as you like.

Personally, I predict that...

There's enough hatred for the open-world concept that it won't be attempted again. Levels will be large and spacious.

Stephen Russell will return as Garrett and will be drawn consistently in every cutscene for the first time, but the cutscenes will look hyper-stylized and artificial.

I won't even touch the modern Thief hypothesis.

T3's fence system will be nixed. Items will carry over between missions, but be carryable in fewer quantities and cost more.

Combat will remain largely unchanged. The AI will be improved but will contain new exploitable quirks and irritating aspects.

There will be a multiplayer mode which takes many pages from Splinter Cell.

Third person and first person views will both make an appearance, and both will be moderately playable.

Rope arrows and swimming will show up big time.

The main story will revolve mostly around totally new elements. Returning characters: Garrett, Drept, and a random fence. The Hammerites and Pagans will not be thrown to the wayside, and the Pagans will receive a master share in the plot.

The Girl will not return.

[Aceyalone7777]

Two things for me...

1. Thief 4 is a prequel...
Its a story we never got to see, Garrett's younger years and how he left the Keepers. Not only that but it will be a way to lure console players who never played Thief. And the Thief cycle closed in a very good manner. And DE:HR is also becoming a prequel. Actually now I think of it, it wouldnt be bad...

Hmmm, it's just that i hate prequels. I think they dont advance the story. You are still in the same spot in the progress of the character, but you come back to finish matters we ourselves have overjumped after a whole buch of games and story progression. It's an anti-climax. You have fought the impropables and now you are returning, in Thief's case, familiarising with fences?? And it's the fact that there is no tension, since you already know how the prequel ends... Now I think of it again, I don't like it....

2. The HUD is consolised
A cumbersome and huge-iconed HUD. Many games follow that path. Care to say that Japanese developers have exactly that kind of philosophy? Mass Effect 1 + 2 were great examples of having a GUI specialised for PC. I just can't remember any other games doing that.



As far as gameplay styles, it might be just me but I am not afraid. I will wait and see DE:HR but Eidos Montreal wouldn't jepardise their money by just making another clone of a T3. I think they have something good in their minds and they realise the true potential of the game. Otherwise they would try something simpler and safer to create...

[Yaphy]

Originally Posted by negative_len

There will be a multiplayer mode which takes many pages from Splinter Cell.

Third person and first person views will both make an appearance, and both will be moderately playable.

I actually don't think that we will see that. Sure, multiplayer is a popular way to go nowadays but I think that EM doesn't have the time to do it nor the will to do it. As said many times before; Thief will not do good as a multiplayer game. They need to put the work on other places and I think they know that.

I think that they will stick with first person view.

Again. It's not just what I want but instead what I think that they will do.

[JFSOCC]

We've a thread "what do you fear for thief" could this not be merged?

I'm worried the game will be a clone of the earlier games, not a game that brings anything new to the table, not a game that you can play without having played any of the others.

[KSingh77]

Third person cover