First person, third person or both

[tarvis79]

A lot of what was wrong in TDS was due to the technical constraints of the original, non-360 Xbox. I doubt we have much to worry about in that vein.

[xAcerbusx]

The advent of HD gaming also helps a bit. Now, with these huge, HD computer monitors and TVs... making an object or a hidden switch at actual size isn't a problem.

[Slugo]

Skyrim doesn't make loot bigger or hallways super huge to catter to 3rd person gamers....I don't know why they 'dumbed 3rd person down" for Thief DS.

Personally, I only play Skyrim on 1rst person.

[BigBoss]

I switch whether I'm inside or out

[minispace]

Originally Posted by Slugo

Skyrim doesn't make loot bigger or hallways super huge to catter to 3rd person gamers....I don't know why they 'dumbed 3rd person down" for Thief DS.

Personally, I only play Skyrim on 1rst person.

It could be the proliferation of High-Definition televisions--new tvs are good enough that we don't need giant comedy-sized loot. Menus and in-game text are still over sized, though...

[Caranfin]

Originally Posted by Morgan Wight

Actually, the poster you were responding to had said: "Said that once already, But will say it again. I believe Eidos will do good job with Thief, as long as it's FIRST PERSON ONLY"

Now basically, he's saying third person is a deal-breaker for him. You claim this is absurd, presumably because you don't feel that peering around corners in third-person breaks immersion or significantly undermines the core essence of the game. Clearly the aforementioned poster does, as do many others, so why is it you feel the need to ridicule his concerns? (in a rants thread, no less) I'm sure if we try, we can probably concoct some hypothetical features that YOU would regard as deal-breakers, so try to keep that in mind next time you're presenting your own overzealous position as the voice of reason.

To reiterate the purposes of this thread: I think it's ridiculous to regard the mere inclusion of a third person view as a deal-breaker for Thief 4.

Let's say that, hypothetically, Thief 4 is released. It is an incredibly atmospheric and tense stealth game with open levels that encourage exploration both horizontally and vertically. I think we can all agree that this is what a Thief game should be? (and if we can't, just substitute the previous with what you personally thought was great about the previous games) Let's also say the game features a possibility for looking at the game from a third-person viewpoint. It's made similarly to the TES 3rd person view option; it's purely secondary to first-person, and doesn't affect level design at all. If you wish, you can play through the entire game in first person and not even know the other option is there. Why do you think it's anything less than ridiculous to disregard the entire game just because some other player might see her character from the outside?

[Sam_kain]

I definitely want a TPV option, adding a TPV to Dues Ex Human Revolution was great, and I freakin loved that game.

Thief 4 been in development for a very long time, 5 years ?!, and till release it will be an extra year ?!, so 6 years in total right ?!, that's more than enough to build a solid FPV & TPV in my opinion.

Options don't hurt, especially when there is solid development, and with how Deus Ex Human Revolution looked, how Tomb Raider and Hitman Absolution look, I have total faith in Eidos that they can nail it, they can give us both Views without sacrificing FPV immersion or TPV immersion, and let the player decide which he feels more immersive in.

I think alot of people want a TPV that would be really great to have, Eidos should accommodate to it's whole fan base, giving option is never a bad thing if done right, I guess we will know from sure at E3 this year.

[Caranfin]

Originally Posted by Sam_kain

Thief 4 been in development for a very long time, 5 years ?!, and till release it will be an extra year ?!, so 6 years in total right ?! --- I guess we will know from sure at E3 this year.

The game was in pre-production in 2009, so it's been 3 years or so. There has been no official word on whether we will see the game during E3.

[Sam_kain]

Originally Posted by Caranfin

The game was in pre-production in 2009, so it's been 3 years or so. There has been no official word on whether we will see the game during E3.

I read rumors it was in development since 2008, maybe I was wrong, even assuming it started 2009 till 2013, that's good time.

I know there is no official word, but I believe we may see it at E3 this year, as you already said, it been in development for 3 years or so, that's enough time to build a game, and show it, most great games take 3 years of development, and they will probably still have another year for polishing or finishing what is not finished yet.

Edit: maybe the E3 part sounded like an official thing ?!, then Sorry I didn't mean to cause confusion, it is simply my humble opinion .

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Sam_kain

I definitely want a TPV option, adding a TPV to Dues Ex Human Revolution was great, and I freakin loved that game.

Although the 3rd person view in DXHR works quite well, it is a blatant compromise. Want to have 3rd person action, but don't have time to develop a fully dynamic animation system? Just use cover mechanics and scripted takedowns and other scripted actions. Want to have stealth but don't have time do develop shadow-based visibility system? Just use 3rd person cover mechanics, so you never actually need to be invisible to stay out of sight while still seeing all your enemies. To me the system in DXHR looks like a desperate hybrid of two working systems and several unfinished ones, to achieve an acceptable compromise.

The game would have been so much better if there was shadow-based stealth and a fully separate 3rd person mode.

[Sam_kain]

^^ well it depends on the game, TBH DE:HR was my 1st DE game, so I don't know how the stealth worked before, yet from my perspective it wasn't a diluted experience, DE:HR wasn't a L&S stealth game, unlike Splinter Cell which uses TPV L&S gameplay.

There are many types of stealth, L&S, Disguise, Social, LoS, and Cover based stealth, DE:HR falls into the latter, that doesn't mean it isn't stealth game, again L&S is just one kind of stealth, the hybrid system worked so well in the game, it didn't dilute the stealth experience at all IMO

TBH I think DE:HR is good the way it is, if it was L&S it would have been a different game, as for the whole seeing your enemies vs not seeing your enemies, it depends on what kind of challenge the game delivers.

[BigBoss]

You forgot the camouflage stealth system used in mgs3

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by BigBoss

You forgot the camouflage stealth system used in mgs3

Isn't the MGS stealth system more like "enemies can see 10 meters in front of them" -type of stealth?

[Sam_kain]

Originally Posted by BigBoss

You forgot the camouflage stealth system used in mgs3

yup that too, I remember MGS3 and spending time to adjust my camouflage every level, it was really cool

[Nicacin]

thief is born in first person

i hope it will die in first person too

[BigBoss]

Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity

Isn't the MGS stealth system more like "enemies can see 10 meters in front of them" -type of stealth?

Considering that's how camouflage/shadows work....yeah. I think you're talking about the cones of vision and how if you were upright standing in front, 10 meters away they couldn't see you. That really only happened up until mgs2. 3 and 4 used different systems.

[Hamadriyad]

Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity

Want to have stealth but don't have time do develop shadow-based visibility system? Just use 3rd person cover mechanics, so you never actually need to be invisible to stay out of sight while still seeing all your enemies.

DX:HR is not shadow based? Damn. I don't remember the stealth system of first two games but as far as I remember there was no 3rd person cover system. I didn't do too much stealth though. The way I like to play Deus Ex is not pure stealth but also little action.
And no matter what, I want to play Deus Ex so badly.

[dsung]

Originally Posted by Hamadriyad

DX:HR is not shadow based? Damn. I don't remember the stealth system of first two games [...]

Well, the first two had shadow based stealth. I played Deus Ex years after I finished the Thief trilogy and it was odd at first since there was no light gem and such but it was still enjoyable though.

[Hamadriyad]

Now I remember. Yes, I had the same feeling.

[nirvana1]

both

because the last thief had Improvements (in views graphics,... )
if next thief has just first person view,that's Recession
and all you know t3 was awesome

[Oon Kuka Oon]

Originally Posted by nirvana1

both

because the last thief had Improvements (in views graphics,... )
if next thief has just first person view,that's Recession
and all you know t3 was awesome

Read this.

[nirvana1]

Originally Posted by Oon Kuka Oon

Read this.

i dont agree with that writings about views
in both views you can choose what u like

[george12123]

Originally Posted by nirvana1

i dont agree with that writings about views
in both views you can choose what u like

Ok third person view can break immersion, it change the game to go from we are Garrett to we are playing Garrett.

[nirvana1]

Originally Posted by george12123

Ok third person view can break immersion, it change the game to go from we are Garrett to we are playing Garrett.

if in first person we have more Centralization and we are garret, why they dont build all the games in first person?

[george12123]

Originally Posted by nirvana1

if in first person we have more Centralization and we are garret, why they dont build all the games in first person?

Most games are, for example:
Call of duty: all of them.
Thief TDP und TMA
The medal of honour series.
ARMA 2
Bioshock series
Unreal
Doom
Wolfenstien
Half-Life series
Portal series
TF2
Myst

To name a very few
Most of these games are very immersive.