Thief IV: MULTIPLAYER - General Discussion

[StephG]

If you are here, that means you love Thief, if you ask this it means you don't.

Can't you see it's hard making a enjoyable single player experience that adding an online option too, forsure one of them will be crippled because the Devs just won't have enough time to make it good enough for release.

[Oon Kuka Oon]

I never said Thief IV should have multiplayer option. I said that they can, if they want, later create separate multiplayer games that are based on Thief's world.

[Nephthys]

I agree. No multiplayer, but if there was to be one, it should be a branch off..

Like Bioshock 2's multiplayer. I was impressed with their decision to do what they did, instead of directly tieing it into the story.

[Nate]

Lol, I always get a chuckle at 'US/THEM' arguments. If you aren't WITH US, you are AGAINST US!

IF you don't want multiplayer, You Love Thief! If you want multiplayer, You Don't Love Thief!

Sure it wins elections in the US, but does this kind of simple minded inclusive/exclusive aggressiveness ever really lead to anything constructive?

Thief team play would be fun and would be played by a lot of us. But I think we ALL understand that Thief's core is a rich single player story...and that it is what the devs need to focus on.

[jtr7]

That's why several realities against it have been listed repeatedly, and those for it actually want Thief 4 compromised, never taking the realities of game development seriously.

[Nate]

Yeah, that is the problem. Too many guys here who don't understand that the Thief 4 team is rather small, and only has so much $ and time to bring it all together. Well, I suppose they'll go through a hiring frenzy as the project passes the halfway point.

Giving them all sorts of 'wishlist add ons' to include take time/effort away from the main game. Of course, I am sure they will balance their time/effort to please the most people possible. Since multiplayer seems roughly 40% in favor, they might go ahead in include a limited multiplayer component (which I would be fine with.....if it doesn't take away from the core single player experience!)

[jtr7]

What we have conceded is that the networking code, the infrastructure for MP, can be added in, but the game should not ship with MP. It should be MP-ready. And then they can sell MP as a separate package later, and sell a separate full package with SP and MP in one. If they give us the SDK/Editor, and the MP networking code is in place, the community will have a chance to do exactly what they want with MP.

[Nate]

Yup, agreed!

In fact jtr7, we agree on almost everything (except that VERY minor point of how to make a story based excuse for why Garrett can't have equipment carry over from past missions).

The only difference between you and I is while we both would prefer a very similar game concept, I am a bit more willing to entertain the idea of change (which I'll freely admit isn't always a good thing).

[jtr7]

Except that, I'm not only pro-change, but I totally accept the fact that it cannot help BUT change. No matter how hard they would try to replicate TDP, they could not. I want good change, logical change, reasonable change, radical change, as long as the heart & soul remain, and if that changes, it better be mature, not a catering to the mass market. There is no smart, intelligent, and mature mass-market template. Every smart, intelligent, and mature piece of entertainment has a small audience and the money is a steady trickle as long as the product remains available. We are few, my friend.

[Nate]

Yup, and there lies the danger. The devs have to juggle trying to please the core players/fans with gearing the final product towards the largest market possible....a lot of very bad things could happen there.

[Loup]

For what we have heard of EM, that some of the members of the team is "working on what for them will be the masterpiece of their career of game development." And that they are "true fans of the old instalments". What will it mean for the game? I'm so worried for the first artwork, promo screens.

But when it comes to single player, let's look at what bioware's dragon age. I'm a rabid fanatic of a fan when it comes to the ol' oh beloved Baldurs Gate 1,2 , Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale and yet they managed to get my approval. Yes it is a tad consolified and suffers from the uber big armor and small head type of aesthetics, but alot of the dialogue and the characters are simply stunning.

Sorry for the sidetrack...
To get to the point, it is -singleplayer only- and most suggest that it will sell good and will live on for a long time thanks to the very powerful toolset.
Even if it is a very different type of game compared to thief, I would like to make the point that multiplayer is not the only market for games. There are a lot of people who likes a good story, and how is that told? Singleplayer has always been a better medium than multiplayer installments.

[acridrose]

Originally Posted by StephG

If you are here, that means you love Thief, if you ask this it means you don't.

That's a silly comment! I personally want an immersive single player experience solely, but yet I started this thread. It's just a discussion, and a way the devs can hear our thoughts on a subject they could be considering.

Originally Posted by jtr7

There is no smart, intelligent, and mature mass-market template. Every smart, intelligent, and mature piece of entertainment has a small audience and the money is a steady trickle as long as the product remains available. We are few, my friend.

I don't think there's a taffer alive that can argue with Jtr7 when it comes to Thief. I think he should present himself to EM

Originally Posted by Loup

For what we have heard of EM, that some of the members of the team is "working on what for them will be the masterpiece of their career of game development." And that they are "true fans of the old instalments". What will it mean for the game? I'm so worried for the first artwork, promo screens.

I'm worried about people worrying... Loup, lay your trust in EM's hands, they know what they're dealing with and above all, have faith! As far as the purists go, the trilogy is complete, incomparable, unbreakable... but just as The Dark Mod was a kind offering for my thievery passions, any additional thief games I will still buy and enjoy. Won't stop me going back and replaying T1&2 though!

[beggarthief]

Hi my Comrades in the Shadow

I am very pleased to meet some Girls and Guys who like Garret with his Missions the most.

By the way - If i am right - many People would like to see the new upcoming thiefversion 4.0 with the option of a multiplayer mode and i am one of them. The reasons are numberous and simple.
Interactive games prosper throug out the internet ==> People love possibilities
(why not letting them share their feelings live in game with each other)

A multiplayergame could look like this:
Some players take the role of the Hammerites and some the role of the thiefes.
The maps which are going to be played might be time-limited, so that the thiefes
dont have all the time in the world to steal the treasure or whatever the aim is.:lol
Just like counterstrike. The system would remain the same, but the environment and characters would be so much cooler!

But this is just the beginning. I have lots of different ideas and dont want to spam you with it. I just want to share them with some interrested people or eidos themself.

Greetings
Your Beggarthief

P.S.: Multiplayer games connect very much similar thinking people, Some new communities and Fanversions might be built and some new patches might be applied.

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by beggarthief

A multiplayergame could look like this:
(Terrible idea with references to counterstrike)

Why do you newbies insist on embarrassing yourselves on your first post? It's disappointing to see old arguments going forever and new ideas being horrible.

[Namdrol]

Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity

Why do you newbies insist on embarrassing yourselves on your first post? It's disappointing to see old arguments going forever and new ideas being horrible.

Maybe they're not newbies Plat.

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Namdrol

Maybe they're not newbies Plat.

Maybe, maybe not. But they sure are acting like them, many of them. You can call me a newbie too. I'm not insulted, because it's not an insult. More like "an observative remark"

[beggarthief]

Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity

Why do you newbies insist on embarrassing yourselves on your first post? It's disappointing to see old arguments going forever and new ideas being horrible.

Maybe i should look for some skillful gamedesigners instead of a kiddy group. The main thing is that if you want to justify about somebody, you should look at every aspect carefully, before you make a decission.
Disappionting is indeed that i am wasting my time with idea and fantasyless peolple who know nothing at all about the tread.

But what annoyes me the most is the respectless ans unpolite manner, shown against forumusers, just because of the reason, that you seem to be anonymously.

You just dont get better or more skillful if you just talk big with bold and blaming words.

So lets please get adult and diskuss like reasonable people. Or is this too much demanded?

1. I declared the main idea towards multiplayer options.
(by the way: i am not an ego-shooter lover, but a fan of teamgames with roundbased system, which would suit perfectly to the thief-mission character. Just imagine if u get a theam of 18 Hammerites against 3 Thiefes. Both teams have different tasks. A timelimit might be given... ok, better i tell these ideas to some people who are really interrested.)

2. I said clearly, that i would like to share some ideas with some people who look over the rim of their teacup (just like the idea of making the terrain more and more important for the success of the missions of Mr.Garrett.
e.g. 1.) You could open a window to let the candlelights in a room go out.
e.g. 2.) You could damage a window, to get an Enemy away from the window, perpaps its rainy weather outside and he might catch a cold....
etc.
But as i said. These are things i will share only with people worth the time.
Thank you for you generous and most polite reply.

[Namdrol]

In what way did I use bold blaming words beggarthief?
I thought I offered a "generous and most polite reply" to your original post.
Especially in my request for you to read through this thread.
Please quote any insulting words I used towards you.
Just because I disagreed with you it doesn't mean I was attacking you.

We have been discussing this for a long time.
In rl would you push into a conversation and start shouting your ideas with no regard for what was being said?

You offered only 1 example of why multiplayer should be implemented - because Interactive games prosper throughout the internet.
Well I'm sorry, so does pornography and I certainly don't want that in Thief.

You then went on to offer an example of how mp should be implemented. As a counterstrike type game.
Thief is a game about stealth and hiding in shadows, not running around killing.
Can't you understand why people reacted to your post?

The only person acting in a "respectless ans unpolite manner" is you, insulting the members of this forum with your last post, calling us a kiddy group amongst other things.
You say you want an adult discusion.
Look at this forum, look at how we write and post.
We debate and disagree and argue, but we try and form proper sentences and well constructed posts. (and this is nothing to do with english being a first or second language)

We do not shout and demand and throw our toys out of the pram if someone disagrees with us.
Again, the only one being childish here is you.
So, if you want to discuss things sensibly please read this thread and come back with some sensible ideas about why the devs should implement multiplayer in Thief 4

[Loup]

Namdrol +1

Originally Posted by Oon Kuka Oon

Why can't we just ban him?

People should get a chance to show that they can behave and contribute in a constructive way. Between the forum rules and Namdrol's last post he will know what is expected of him.
If he's not a troll that is.

When I'm finished with my exam and have a little more time to spend on the forum I'm gonna try to collect arguments in the threads and form compact lists of yet presented arguments in the various topics. It would be great to learn what progress we have made in our discussions. If there just was a way to edit the first posts. =P
That would really make it easier for new taffers to get into the discussion at the current level. If anyone knows a topic by heart, feel free to help me.

[Vae]

Originally Posted by beggarthief

Maybe i should look for some skillful gamedesigners instead of a kiddy group. The main thing is that if you want to justify about somebody, you should look at every aspect carefully, before you make a decission.
Disappionting is indeed that i am wasting my time with idea and fantasyless peolple who know nothing at all about the tread.

Give me a break...

1. I declared the main idea towards multiplayer options.
(by the way: i am not an ego-shooter lover, but a fan of teamgames with roundbased system, which would suit perfectly to the thief-mission character. Just imagine if u get a theam of 18 Hammerites against 3 Thiefes. Both teams have different tasks. A timelimit might be given... ok, better i tell these ideas to some people who are really interrested.)

Sounds like you're pretty confused about a bad idea.

2. I said clearly, that i would like to share some ideas with some people who look over the rim of their teacup (just like the idea of making the terrain more and more important for the success of the missions of Mr.Garrett.
e.g. 1.) You could open a window to let the candlelights in a room go out.
e.g. 2.) You could damage a window, to get an Enemy away from the window, perpaps its rainy weather outside and he might catch a cold....
etc.

.............................................

But as i said. These are things i will share only with people worth the time.

Well since you just shared them with us, that would mean you think that we are worth the time.

Thank you for you generous and most polite reply.

You're welcome...

[Namdrol]

Originally Posted by beggarthief

Some new communities and Fanversions

There are over a 1000 fan missions for Thief.
Plus a whole rebuilt engine/toolset (based on the doom3 engine)
So there is quite a community already.

You say Thief multiplayer could be "...just like Counter-Strike..."
Thief is about slowly and carefully solving a stealth puzzle, it is not a fragfest.
Please beggarthief, read this thread, or at least skim it, and then offer some sensible reasons why your ideas should be implemented.
You'll not get a good reaction here if you don't.

[Namdrol]

No, no, I meant maybe they're not as new to the forum as they appear.

[jtr7]

Egads!

[ToMegaTherion]

I do not know how to respond to that. If it's a joke, then it's pretty awesome.

[esme]

speaking purely personally, a multiplayer aspect to the game would have nothing for me that I want, I'm not interested in multiplayer games, the dormant multiplayer code for thief 2 has already been activated in FM's and while I appreciate the work that went into the project I don't want to play multiplayer Thief2, there's also ThieveryUT which I also don't want to play, every example I've seen so far is basically a reaction fuelled fragfest, this is not Thief for me

now as T4 is being built from scratch with a new state of the art engine (if the unknown EM guy in the park wasn't telling porkies), resources such as time and money are going to be tight, I would prefer these be used in developing a compelling and absorbing single player Thief game and I object to any of it being spent on developing a multiplayer aspect

that said if the engine they use supports multiplayer I see no reason for this code to be removed or disabled, so the fan community can develop multiplayer if they want

as to the idea of time limits, these go against the very core of thief which is about patience, planning, observation and then execution. time limits throw all these aspects out of the window and force you to rush headlong, without thought into situations you haven't made plans for

I do like your window ideas though, a candle going out or an AI moving away from the rain because the window opens is a nice idea, I may put that in my next FM, I'll give you a credit if I do