YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

[Hypevosa]

I think it's ironic that this was brought up again since my very first thread was about time actually passing ingame...

[jtr7]

We've been repeating everything this week.

[esme]

tends to happen in the absence of any new information

[jtr7]

Yep.

[esme]

even soothsayers occasionally need a fresh set of bull entrails to divine the future, you can only pick over the same stuff so often

and there's a vanishingly small amount of hard information posted by official sources on these forums to pick over, the rest is mainly different groups of fans saying what they would like to see and then arguing about it, with a few gems thrown in like the fan artwork or Albi's stick animation and a few obligatory trolls stirring the pot with inanities

there are times I'm completely stunned that there's so much in this forum considering what information we've actually been given to work with

[Loup]

I think it is because thief is not just any game but one of those top games in gaming history that still stands on its own. It is not just a good game, but will be remembered as one of those old gems. The concept of thief is timeless, except graphics it is still a formula which can be used and result in a good game. It is not like Doom or quake or other games that if they were updated with better graphics still would feel like old concept which people have take to completely new levels a long time ago.

I wonder how many who actually follow the forums but doesn't post.

[Ardanna]

What we could do with some information.

[elephantman2222]

I think day/ night cycles are hilarious. Think about how ironic it is. They are probably in existence in order to provide a more "realistic" experience in gaming. Thus just like the real world, different opportunities are present during the daytime versus the nighttime. In general, in games, the night cycle involves night monsters coming out, ghosts appearing, thieves guilds open up, and all sorts of fun exciting things. However it is so funny that this cycle has to complete like every 20 minutes or so. How realistic is that? We are literally too impatient to play the most "realistic" day night cycle of all. So do we just want a rapid cycle that gives us cycling variation so we don't get bored? And at the same time, surely no one wants to get reminders "you really need to sleep now, you are so ing tired". That would just be too realistic. So your avatar would spend a cycle of being awake for several days in a row, and then sleeping for several weeks, if you try and make some imaginative analogy that: "oh my character just sleeps when I stop playing the game".

I don't think Garret would do very much in the daytime, and thus I don't think a Thief game would be able to provide enough creative content for things for him to do in the day. Go shopping? Gamble? Certainly no sneaking around, unless Garret goes a-la Solid Snake with a camo index. The best estimation of what I can imagine Garret does during the day would be a combination of sleep, planning, and physical or mental training or something( reading, pushups, no mini-game material there). All confined to his hideout. If anything, there could be some interesting game scenes created with a time limit until dawn, requiring you to complete certain missions before the sun rises and reveals you to the world. Or you could start a mission right at dusk to give the anti-aliasing in the more visible distance and orangey textures a spin. Would be interesting. But I don't really find an interest in daytime play. I doubt anyone could convince me otherwise.

[Hypevosa]

I don't think we're opting for a 20 minute day night cycle - so much as a X hours till morning thing. After getting preparations over with, leaving enough time to comfortably escape even if you're being pursued, dealing with the pawn shop and the weapons shops and what not. It would be utterly moronic to make a day/night cycle in thief that was anything less than 8 hours, and worse to allow us to stay awake through the whole thing. I highly doubt Garrett could do what he do on no sleep at all.

[glyph07]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

(...) dealing with the pawn shop and the weapons shops and what not (...)

I didn't quite understand this point Hype, do u mean that Garrett's trade activities should be restricted to the day-light period?

[esme]

legal shops would use daylight hours but surely fences, illegal weapons suppliers and other members of the black economy would be open any hour the customer can get there

as long as I can break in and rob them I don't really mind though

[Hypevosa]

I would think that, to reduce the number of bribes that need to be made, that illegal shops and dealers would only operate during the night shift so that there would be fewer guards to bribe, and no/fewer hammers to deal with. I don't know, the point was that the time allowed for Garrett to do all he needed before and after a mission. I'd also expect that Garrett doesn't like daytime as much as we wouldn't like trying to sneak around in it.

[Loup]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

I don't think we're opting for a 20 minute day night cycle - so much as a X hours till morning thing. After getting preparations over with, leaving enough time to comfortably escape even if you're being pursued, dealing with the pawn shop and the weapons shops and what not. It would be utterly moronic to make a day/night cycle in thief that was anything less than 8 hours, and worse to allow us to stay awake through the whole thing. I highly doubt Garrett could do what he do on no sleep at all.

So Garrett is not doing anything else than stealing, planning to steal and sleeping?

[Nate]

IF the devs decide to go with an Open City concept (similar to T3), then I hope that they at least give players a 'Fast Travel' option......I HATED having to travel the same paths again and again, while dodging the same guards over and over and over and over again. Don't get me wrong, I had fun in T3's City (errr....tiny neighborhood in a tiny village), but after a while, I really got tired of being forced to run the same paths over and over again.

A 'Fast Travel' option would allow players to bypass all that repeatative 'fun'....

[Hypevosa]

Originally Posted by Loup

So Garrett is not doing anything else than stealing, planning to steal and sleeping?

Game wise? I would assume so. We're still not going for ultra-realism here and having protagonists that take pee-breaks and eat food. Garrett does strike me as the type to not fool around either, that guy who's good at his job and doesn't really do much else. Personally that's how he strikes me at least, I don't know if he strikes everyone else in a different way.

Though thinking about it now, it would be hilarious if a growling stomach gave him away if he hasn't eaten a piece of random food for more than a few hours.... XD

I said I would find it funny, not that I really want it in the game. I'd never appreciate it anyways since I always eat everything i find.

[Loup]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

Game wise? I would assume so. We're still not going for ultra-realism here and having protagonists that take pee-breaks and eat food. Garrett does strike me as the type to not fool around either, that guy who's good at his job and doesn't really do much else. Personally that's how he strikes me at least, I don't know if he strikes everyone else in a different way.

Though thinking about it now, it would be hilarious if a growling stomach gave him away if he hasn't eaten a piece of random food for more than a few hours.... XD

I said I would find it funny, not that I really want it in the game. I'd never appreciate it anyways since I always eat everything i find.

what I mean is that trying to add more gameplay which covers different aspects of his life is not the way to go. In TDP and TMA he might have done dozens of things between missions while in what you are suggesting in the open world designs leaves no room for things to happen outside the actual game play.

[Hypevosa]

Well dealing with the shops to buy stuff has always been part of the game... pawn shops only had a recent incarnation in TDS, but fall under the same premise as shops.

Alot of others, including myself, have wanted to do more pre-mission planning, and finding your contacts, meeting someone at the pub to get the map, etc would fall under that. It would also allow the devs to have some good set-ups - like everyone at the bar being a watchman undercover... things like that (not that it should be done a ton of times, but it would be nice).

[Nate]

Exactly! IF they decide to go the 'Open City' route, having the player find/make contacts, eavesdrop on conversations, buy architech plans, buy off guards WOULD BE GREAT!!!

More of setting up missions, less rioting melee battles in the streets (as per TDS).

[jtr7]

Seems to me that open-world is really procrastination on steroids. Oddly, with the cries for more violence and mayhem, taking an hour just to start one mission doesn't sound fun at all, and with the cries for more realism, Garrett would never start a mission since the player would instigate a man-hunt for all the crimes committed before remembering the objectives.


MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE!

I know you're playing a Thief, but damn you guys are greedy, and don't care about quality.

[Nate]

Oh, I still MUCH PREFER the idea of having a sandbox around mission zones for Garrett to explore (if he choses) that might offer opportunities to discover/buy info/favors to help him in his current mission.

I was just saying that IF the devs go the 'Open City' route, have the city as a resource for info/bribes on the next mission is a good idea.

[jtr7]

I would only want it to be a rare thing, then, not often an option, and I'm still against Garrett interacting with so many people. By keeping most of it out of the missions, it saves a hell of a lot on voice-acting and script-writing, as well as coding, and the devs can add details to the world. When Garrett's on most missions, most people should be in bed, and I would expect Garrett's gathering info during different hours of the day, and on days other than the mission day.

[Loup]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

Well dealing with the shops to buy stuff has always been part of the game... pawn shops only had a recent incarnation in TDS, but fall under the same premise as shops.

Alot of others, including myself, have wanted to do more pre-mission planning, and finding your contacts, meeting someone at the pub to get the map, etc would fall under that. It would also allow the devs to have some good set-ups - like everyone at the bar being a watchman undercover... things like that (not that it should be done a ton of times, but it would be nice).

So the "premission planning" should be a part of the gameplay? And by making this in an open world environment gameifying every aspect of it? So that you actually have to walk all the way to various contacts to find one who has the information about the place you are going? Then heading over to the place to draw maps if you can't get your hands on one and then head over to the fence to sell loot and then to a shop where you can buy equipment?

Is this what you want to do before every single mission which actually main aspect of the game?


And by doing this eliminating every ounce of possibility that Garrett doesn't do everything the same night that he sets out for the job?

[Nate]

Bah, I am just as happy at being able to purchase info/maps/bribes/equipment in a 'pre-mission loadout' screen.

[Ardanna]

fresh idea make lists of things form other games that you would like to see and adjustments to the items that you would like changed.

[jtr7]

That's not fresh, except for the part where people pay attention to the changes it will cause--which people should be doing anyway, but I doubt they are capable, and even if they were, I doubt they would care what would happen to the other gameplay elements. People keep trying to make Thief like other games, citing those other games as proof of a fun idea, never paying attention to the damage it causes to other unique Thief elements and how the end result would look like a lame rip-off at best.