YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

[elephantman2222]

Originally Posted by Bono

EM should not choose 'Steampunk Renaissance' art-direction for Thief 4.

I am curious what your reasons are for this? Anything in mind?

[Knightz_Dark4200]

what does everyone want this one to be like. I think that no matter what the game will be awesome, what do you guys think ????

[Slither]

Well, I have to admit I'm not quite so optimistic as to say "No matter what, it will be awesome," but I'll certainly buy it to find out its true awesomeness or maybe if it's "awesomeless."

I'd like them to maintain the darker atmosphere of the first game, back off a little on the security cameras (not eliminate, just not so common as T2). Expand on the different factions, especially the minor ones to really flesh out the political dynamics of the city. And don't shy away from making the game a little more cerebral in the way the factions play off one-another. Deadly Shadows was a quite simplistic with this mechanic and unfortunately felt like it was just thrown in because it was on their list of game design "to-do" list -- albeit at the bottom of that list.

Definitely maintain the mission structure within the story arc. Cutscenes. Stephen Russell voice-overs. Moral ambiguity. And maybe a re-appearance from the Woodsie Lord. Oh, and work very hard on the first-person character movement. The Garrett of Deadly Shadows had a little too much to drink, I think.

[jtr7]

Thread-merge:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=88483


And greetings!



I have no compulsion to buy games no matter what and would really prefer a game that is unmistakably Thief on all levels, not just the title.

[HisDudeness]

Thief 1&2 Visuals.
Open world as in Deadly Shadows (bigger, darker, more accessible areas, smarter AI patrols, day and night if possible - would make for more interesting stealth)
1st and 3rd person views.
More emphasis on theft, less on magics.
Side missions and trade would not be a bad idea either as in Deadly Shadows.
Definitely a haunted orphanage/mental institution type area again. That level in Deadly Shadows was absolutely stunning!
The original weapons from Thief 1&2 (moss, fire, water, rope etc.)
All buildings should be accessible, as long as there is no Assassin's Creed type jumping and climbing
Should Garett not be the playable character, he should be featured extensively in some way at least with the original voice actor.

P.S. Deadly Shadows was a stellar game, definitely up to par with the first two. A lil clunky and buggy at times but stellar!!!!

[jtr7]

I would rather see more of The City that was, and The City that was hinted at, not have it gutted of so many things that make that world not like other worlds. It's a fantasy-genre game. Less fantasy in a fantasy-genre is ridiculous.

First you exaggerate and say TDS is on par, and then immediately follow it with the more honest statement. At least you make good points, too.

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by Bono

It's fine. It has nothing to do with Deus Ex, though.

If you mean it is a brand new game from the franchise, I agree.
If you mean nothing of the content is related to the previous games, I disagree.

Still, this is OT.

[Loup]

Originally Posted by HisDudeness

Open world as in Deadly Shadows

That is not open world. It is more related to sandbox. Morrowind is a openworld game.

Just so that people understand each other when we use the term =)

(bigger, darker, more accessible areas, smarter AI patrols, day and night if possible - would make for more interesting stealth)

Given that there is a reason for Garret to go by day.

1st and 3rd person views.

read the thread about it, it is not that simple

Side missions and trade would not be a bad idea either as in Deadly Shadows.

Could you explain what type of sidetracks would be interesting? We already got them in missions though secondary objectives added on higher difficulties.

All buildings should be accessible, as long as there is no Assassin's Creed type jumping and climbing

You should really read the open world thread

Should Garett not be the playable character, he should be featured extensively in some way at least with the original voice actor.

just throwing out statements won't do much for a discussion. Here is the thread you are looking for.

Post your replies in these threads and you'll get responses.

[Gillie]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Good to see you here, Gillie. I know you post elsewhere, but your gentle spirit is always welcome here.

Thanks.

Thank you, your word are so kind and thoughtful. I do hope you are feeling better.


Hello Vikoria. So Looking forward to T4

[Odyseeos]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Im glad that guys gone what a fool well done Viktoria bout time u booted him outa the door lol.

read your post jtr7 may your life be long and prosperous I mean that with all sincerity you seem like a decent person and I hope fortune finds you and abundantly blesses you my Thieving friend

I looked up the rulebook today.
I couldn’t find an actual break.
If thet wes spelt “flamed” to “inflamed”,
It’d pass more muster from this peasant’s stand.

[Bono]

Originally Posted by VIKTORIA

If you mean it is a brand new game from the franchise, I agree.
If you mean nothing of the content is related to the previous games, I disagree.

Still, this is OT.

I mean nothing in this trailer looks like it is a trailer from a Deus Ex game, you know what I mean?

The art department of EM decided they could 'invent' a Renaissance feel for the world of Deus Ex and make the game look like a visual novel. Well, it's their right. But if it is their style to mess up with things, don't be too surprised if they announce that The City is actually a Gotham City, and Garrett is Batman or something. Judging by that trailer, we can expect anything from EM for Thief 4.

[Namdrol]

I think it's a little sad that the cheater has forced a ban on himself.
Total knob but I do feel he had a love for the game.
Hope it's a holiday and not an exclusion.

Edit: Nevermind, see it's permanent and he's proud of it.
And he's not saying good things about us, oh well screw him.

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by Gillie

Hello Vikoria. So Looking forward to T4

So am I, we all are.
I can't wait for the first trailer and screenshots. In fact, I think it's time I asked Rene whether we can expect as much within the next few months. I'll keep you all posted.

[elephantman2222]

Originally Posted by Namdrol

I think it's a little sad that the cheater has forced a ban on himself.
Total knob but I do feel he had a love for the game.
Hope it's a holiday and not an exclusion.

Edit: Nevermind, see it's permanent and he's proud of it.
And he's not saying good things about us, oh well screw him.

I don't really know what it means to "love" a game. That would be a good question. Most people don't know what love is anyway these days. I saw in some other thread that Cheater_1 loved GTA, and thought that Rockstar "understood" gaming, expressing that Eidos Montreal should "catch on" and make Thief mimic GTA, as if it would be some unparalleled gaming experience. I seriously question anyone who would honestly believe this, and whether they could claim to "love" the game, or be a "true" fan, as Cheater_1 claimed himself to be. Would a "true fan" of the first book of Lord of the Rings have wanted the second or third book to be written like "The Frogs" by Aristophanes?? I would argue that someone attempting to affect Thief 4 with ideas such as Cheater_1 doesn't really have a mature enough understanding of games, or of life, in order to merit any deserving consideration for their ideas. Obviously he demonstrated some sort of insufficiency by the simple fact he was banned.

This does raise interesting questions though, such as : what does it mean be a "true fan", or: what would it mean to love a game? or: "what is love?

baby don't hurt me.. don't hurt me.. no more" etc etc

XD

[esme]

Originally Posted by Namdrol

I think it's a little sad that the cheater has forced a ban on himself.
Total knob but I do feel he had a love for the game.
Hope it's a holiday and not an exclusion.

Edit: Nevermind, see it's permanent and he's proud of it.
And he's not saying good things about us, oh well screw him.

no matter what happened he was going to take it for a win

if an aardvark chewed his foot off he'd tell us that's what he intended because he knew what our reactions would be and wanted to show us he knew, just that he didn't tell us first as it would ruin the surprise

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Thread-merge:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=88483

Done.

[jtr7]

VIKTORIA in da house! o/

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by jtr7

VIKTORIA in da house! o/

Ssssh. Don't alert the guards!

[DarknessFalls]

I don't like it when games rush me along or remind me over and over what my mission objective is as if I forgot because a whole 2 minutes have passed since they last reminded me. They either think I'm (a) lost and don't know where to go because I'm taking so long, or (b) they want me to play the game at "their" pace, or (c) they want to create a false sense of urgency. No matter the reason, it annoys me to no avail. If you think I don't know what to do, let me press a button to get a textual reminder, and leave it at that. No need to tell me a hundred times while I'm trying to enjoy the scenery and game. I heard you the first time.

Turok for the PS3 did it with the stupid side-kick that was with you the whole time: "Let's go!" "Come on!" "Hurry!" or whatever he said. He was the worst. I think he uttered something at least once every 20-30 seconds. I think I must've heard him say, "It's dark in here... TOO dark... " 50-100 times, as if I need to hurry out of the caverns to get to daylight because he's too much of a baby.

Now I play Crysis on the PC tonight and thru the radio transmissions, the same stupid thing. "Hurry up! We need that radar jammer taken down!!" "What's taking you so long! He needs your help!" "Use your speed power to run faster!"

Even though there is scenery I want to slow down, admire and absorb... even though there are stealth-like elements to these games... they still try to rush me along as if slow & stealthy should NOT be the way ANY gamer plays. (Sorry for the caps locks there... but it really bothers me.)

I'm like "Leave me the *&#@ alone! I'll play at my own pace!! Stop annoying me!!!!!!!!!!!"

So, I do hope that EM never implements anything like this. I can just imagine Basso having radio communication with Garrett in the first T2 mission. "*kzzzsh!* Garrett!! What the taff is taking you so long! Take out some guards, knock down some doors, forget the loot and hurry UP! Over. *kzzzsh!*"

I... don't... want... you.... trying... to ... tell... me... how... fast... you... think... I ... should... be ... playing... the... game!

[jtr7]

Agreed. To undermine the slow methodical thinking sneaking of Thief would be a travesty. The story tells the stakes, the audio and visual experience creates the tension and keeps it taut, only ever, if at all, reminding that failure to complete the mission this night of the timeline gives the story a bad ending, but there is no real push to get it over with soon. Promotion of taking one's time, while allowing the speed-runners all the way to the ghosters to play at their own challenging pace, is a fundamental.

[DarknessFalls]

Yep. And it's funny. All these games that try to push you through levels at a lightning pace by giving you mid-mission "hurry up or X will result" quips are so bogus I have to roll my eyes. No matter how slow you go and no matter how many times they tell me X will happen if I don't hurry.... "X" never happens!!!! So their sad attempts at getting me to hurry are ill-founded (no true consequences), and the only reason I sometimes hurry is because I want to shut them up as soon as possible because they're annoying me

One "hurry up" mechanism EM might try to employ, which I truly hope they don't, is having a mission that "must be completed before dawn" and then somehow reminding us over-and-over in an obtrusive way while playing the mission that we "need to hurry up because dawn in approaching." Then to add insult to injury, they make it so dawn never approaches (so there's the whole boring boy-who-cried-wolf "no consequence" thing added on top).

I wouldn't mind being told once in a mission (e.g., in the objectives screen) that I must complete it before dawn. But to have a clock running where dawn actually arrives and ends the mission because I didn't complete it in time would be a travesty.

PS: I'm okay with a couple missions having a slight dawn approach and never getting fully to sunrise no matter how long you play, with no gameplay consequences, as we've discussed before. That's different.

[Hypevosa]

No, no clock for Garrett. How about a time, and then all the clocks that are in the place will function, and it will slowly get lighter outside? (just for more fun)

What would you have though, would you want a "game over" or just the fun of having to try and get out with all the guards and servants back for morning shift? I'd prefer to have to try and escape despite the light...

[jtr7]

Heh. Yeah, it would be really cool if games just did things that we naturally expected them to do so we could take the realisms for granted and never really think about them and just enjoy them for existing.

[Platinumoxicity]

I still think that "scripted varied gameplay" would be better than actual dynamic time cycle. I'm talking about the way after the player has achieved some goal, it triggers the gradual change of weather/lighting. Like in the very beginning of Crysis, when the player is in the jungle it's night, but after the first "cutscene" it slowly starts to get brighter, and in one point it reaches the point where it was going for and it's morning. It isn't dynamic, so more effort can be put in making everything look right and play well. Otherwise there could be situations where certain players would reach some area in a different time than others and for example they couldn't sneak through anymore because it's already too bright outside. With scripted varied gameplay the devs could design the change in a way that it has a subtle effect on gameplay but a more noticeable effect on visuals. For example, when the player has finished an objective, it starts raining or the sun is starting to rise and there's mist outside.

[Flashart]

I think having the time change via objectives is better (and easier) to do. The only exception I think of is having a Mission with say, a solar eclipse where upon reaching a certain point you get 60secs or so of darkness. It's a little cheesy, but as a one shot deal it could be used to dramatic effect.