YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

[esme]

a simple way of doing the zip line rope/vine arrow is to have a specific arrow type composed of two rope arrows that are already paired by rope, shoot one end into one arowable surface and the other into another arrowable surface and the zip line gets formed between them, frobbing either arrow retrieves both of them, putting down the bow after the first shot retrieves the one already shot, there would be a distance limit between the two meaning the shot fails if it's too far, cutting the deployed rope would give you two rope arrows, shooting one end at a none wooden surface breaks that end to leave a single rope arrow this includes AI, to traverse the zip line jump at the rope and mantle to assume a lying along the rope position or get above the rope and jump on for tightrope position then forward or backward traverses the rope, fired at ankle height across a corridor will create a trip line for AI, armed AI will simply cut the rope and go alert should they see it though

I'd quite like this but whether it's worth the extra development work over a standard rope arrow I'm not sure

[jtr7]

Sounds good. I think the near end would have to be fired first to alleviate the frustration of firing the trickier far end first and screwing up, then having to fire the near end and pluck it out to start over.

A good dynamic traditional rope arrow would suffice for the new game, and if the double version could be coded in with little trouble and the playtesters are happy, then okay, but otherwise save it for Thief 5. Hopefully they wouldn't have to start over with a new engine and build the code from scratch for another sequel, which is likely.

[esme]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Sounds good. I think the near end would have to be fired first to alleviate the frustration of firing the trickier far end first and screwing up, then having to fire the near end and pluck it out to start over.

well the player had to learn to use all the other tools of the trade, this would be just another tool the learn to use, if they shoot the far end first and miss then they learn either not to miss or to fire the near end first

Originally Posted by jtr7

A good dynamic traditional rope arrow would suffice for the new game, and if the double version could be coded in with little trouble and the playtesters are happy, then okay, but otherwise save it for Thief 5. Hopefully they wouldn't have to start over with a new engine and build the code from scratch for another sequel, which is likely.

coding in a double arrow is a pretty big 'if' I agree, I'd prefer them to get the traditional bits working first and perhaps have a look at this once they have the original toolkit fully functional and bug free, if it's more than a weeks work for a single dev to get a rough cut of it working then I'd say it's not worth the effort, much as I'd love to see it

[zhunt]

imagine the satisfaction of climbing across from point a to point b with guards in hot pursuit and they decide to follow, half way over, you pull one end out and they all tumble down to their death. i never kill anyone playing thief and im all for stealth over combat but just for once, sending a few guards plumeting to their doom by pulling out a rope arrow would be amusing.

[Ragnalin The Thief]

I would like to see a few more role playing elements included within thief.
I find it funny how on The ElserScrolls 5 forums me (and many others) suggest how it should be more like thief. On The Thief 4 forums I (and hopefully many others) suggest thief to be more like the ES

[Vae]

No, it would be better that Elder Scrolls 5 learns from THIEF and that THIEF remains THIEF.

[DarknessFalls]

I'm not a big fan of the thought of zip-lining in Thief. I think it will make getting to difficult, obscure and off-limit places easier to get to, and it'll feel like Garrett can go anywhere he wants to with relative ease. Not to mention how easy it would be to get from point A to point B; how much harder it will be for the devs to try and prevent exploiting the map in such a way; and how much easier it would be to get away from guards in an area.

I'd just miss the challenge the current rope arrows provide.

Climbing gloves presented no challenge and provided so much mobility (on surfaces you could climb) that it killed the fun factor for me. I'm fearful of rope arrows being turned into a cheap Batman gimmick, providing too much mobility, thereby killing their fun factor, as well.

I like that rope arrows currently have limited use and application. Makes them feel special, since you don't use them all the time... and when you do, it's for certain cool or unique situations or scenarios.

[esme]

Originally Posted by zhunt

imagine the satisfaction of climbing across from point a to point b with guards in hot pursuit and they decide to follow, half way over, you pull one end out and they all tumble down to their death. i never kill anyone playing thief and im all for stealth over combat but just for once, sending a few guards plumeting to their doom by pulling out a rope arrow would be amusing.

imagine being halfway across when an AI comes along and cuts the rope

[Vae]

That would be great....I mean bad...

I like the idea of horizontal rope, along with swing-able rope. Think of all the creative exploration and the non linear puzzles that could be implemented.

[jtr7]

It's sad that the original rope arrows, crude as they were, were about a dozen lines of scripting code, roughed out in less than four hours, working in-game in half-an-hour. Nowadays it's a massive undertaking, most especially with body-awareness and 3rd-person to account for and animate, and the expanded physics needed once the rope gets swinging.

[Vae]

The body awareness and 3rd person just need to go. They vamp resources, create more problems, are unnecessary, and even diminish the THIEF experience. They are not meaningful things to spend time on. I don't mind the time spent towards the advanced physics for the rope swinging as long as rope swinging is accounted for in level design and is implemented in a meaningful way, rather than an arbitrary way. Don't get me wrong, I will be extremely happy if they were just to reintroduce the good ol' rope arrow in T4.

[jtr7]

Yep! I agree with all of that.

And just the straight rope descending from a player-placed arrow would be like an old terribly-missed friend coming back to town after 7 long years of complete and mysterious absence, and finding out he/she was in a hospital in a foreign country, in a coma after nearly succumbing to a fierce battle with a wretched disease.



Okay, maybe not that bad.

[Ultrios]

First, sorry for my bad english, I'm french spoken...
Everything has already been said about Thief (mostly that T1 & 2 are the best). So, get inspired by those 2 episods. But music has often been forgotten. Please, stay close to the musical of the first episods ! I simply loved the music !
The idea of the drawings between levels is also a great one !
... And I loved the fact that there are no "big boss" to kill at the end, but rather a difficult mission of infiltration.

[jtr7]

Excellent first post! Welcome Ultrios!

[Vae]

Originally Posted by jtr7

And just the straight rope descending from a player-placed arrow would be like an old terribly-missed friend coming back to town after 7 long years of complete and mysterious absence, and finding out he/she was in a hospital in a foreign country, in a coma after nearly succumbing to a fierce battle with a wretched disease.



Okay, maybe not that bad.

Sounds about right to me...

[Frappo]

Thief best game ever. Specially 1th and 2nd.

-It's important for me to be sure about Garrett as main caracter, his charisma is unequalled.
Don't make the unforgivable mistake to let him play a secondary role...

-Of course bring the rope arrows back
I know that in an open world it'll be harder for the programmers (specially for console) then the use of the gloves, but not impossible.

-I loved the chapter of the The Haunted Cathedral, I'd like to see something similar in future.
Undead owned mecha!

-atmosphere and feel of Thief 1 and 2 a lot better than 3rd chapter

-They could bring back the Trickster, a well-made enemy imho

-I'd like a mature content in Thief4.
Maybe not excessively but something like The Witcher will be amusing and more realistic.

-Let the choice of difficulty level in each chapter and bring back the forbidden kill in the hard mode, as in Thief 1 e 2

-Stephen Russell as Garrett

-Swimable water

[zhunt]

since this thread is thoughts and WISHES i shall throw in a wish.
i wish i could see my name in the game or some reference to myself. not going so far as a character named after myself or anything that outlandish, just a name on a tombstone in a graveyard mission, or mentioned in a note thats read in mission somewhere, maybe from the boss of a factory you are robbing, be amongst the names of employees hes firing in his ledger. nothing even storyline related at all. who here wouldnt get a kick out of seeing their name or some reference however small in the next thief game. working in the industry i do ive had my name in a few credits in various films and documentaries etc, but havent been metioned in a game.could even be a page in one of those hidden easter egg things like the dev quotes, at the end, mention a few names of people who submitted ideas in here, even if they were crap ideas or ones that werent implimented. hehe, everyone likes their 15 mins of fame.

alternately, i could just change my name to garrett and pretend the entire game is about me

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Excellent first post! Welcome Ultrios!

Seconded.

[Torfo]

Hello

What id like to see in T4 is guards reacting when they see Garrett's silhouette if he is between some light and a guard. It would make the game more realistic and challenging.

I dont like the rope arrows too much. Anyone who has seen a real wooden arrow knows it wouldnt work. I think a rope with a small hook would be much more fun=D

Torfo

[Vae]

Originally Posted by Torfo

I dont like the rope arrows too much.

Please be warned...unauthorized...a malfunction...

Originally Posted by Torfo

Anyone who has seen a real wooden arrow knows it wouldnt work. I think a rope with a small hook would be much more fun=D

The rope arrow is magical in nature...that's why it can do what it does.

[jtr7]

Aw cripes! Another one who can't stand "fantasy" in fantasy games.

Alchemy!

[Namdrol]

I bet haunts, zombies et al are also on the verboeten list.

[jtr7]

An arrow that becomes impossibly rigid and unbreakable, impossibly immovably set in the wood (even if it's only a few millimeters of the arrowhead's tip), impossibly makes the wood it's set in unbreakable as well, and reels down a rope of full thickness (thicker than the shaft) and 25 feet long, which instantly disappears when the arrowhead instantly plucks out of the wood it's sunk into, and the shape of the head and fragility of the shaft are called into question?

[Torfo]

Whoo dont get angry. I just thought rope and hook would be much more cool. Im not saying that the game will fall just because they choose the arrows. And about fantasy, i do like the zombies and other magical stuff in the game. I would simply also like realism. Everything doesnt have to be solved like "hey how should we do this, I know, we'll make it magical". I think the less magical stuff in garretts posession the better, and leave the magic to the shamans and others who profess in that. Am i not allowed to post my opinion when the topic specifically says to post opinions?

But the main thing in the post was that about guards seeing Garretts silhouette if he positions himself against the light. I'd like to hear comments on that

[Namdrol]

Sorry Torfo.
I agree that magic should be limited.
Rope arrows is a very touchy subject.
Many people feel let down by TDS because it didn't include them.
Welcome.
Yes, I hope there's some exciting things coming with guards spotting anomalies.
Maybe relighting torches or hunting for pals who've gone missing...