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#1001
09-21-2009, 07:10 AM
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Suggestion: display value of object (ie loot status) upon frob highlight. Garrett ought to be able to assess if an object is valuable without picking it up. No "loot glint", obviously.
Frob highlight: Unlike most oldtimers I'm not dead set on the "neutral lighting diffuse map" highlight style, although it is preferable to blue glow. I'd like to see something that better mimics the sensation of recognizing an object without distorting it, perhaps a simple white silhouette outline? Plus perhaps a quick sweeping flash of "neutral lighting diffuse map" upon highlight, if absolutely necessary. I should probably make an animated gif of this, but I lack the energy. EDIT: another thing, lest i forget: the "minimum loot" should be deducted from the total loot before shopping for the next mission, representing the actual expenses that motivate Garretts' work. This makes the price of equipment less ridiculous and rewards hunting for additional loot. Last edited by Ankle; 09-22-2009 at 12:27 AM. |
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#1002
09-21-2009, 02:00 PM
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__________________
I have played T1Gold, T2, T2X, CoSaS, many other FMs and TDS. I still play T2 and FMs today. When I am dying I will look back at how little I have done with my life and be glad at how much fun it was. |
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#1003
09-21-2009, 11:20 PM
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#1005
09-22-2009, 03:25 AM
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#1006
09-22-2009, 10:34 AM
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Shalebridge Cradle still stands out as an incredible experience to me, I still remember crapping my pants when you hear that knocking noise as you walk up the stairs! With regards to the cramped missions, I think some of that can be attributed to the cross platform release. Thief: DS was on Xbox too and that only had 64MB ram, so i'm guessing they had to split everything up. I have to admit I was cursing the Xbox during that period lol!  Anyways, I almost crapped my pants a second time recently for a very different reason - the knowledge of a new and upcoming Thief game! Bring it on!!! Cheers Jake |
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#1007
09-22-2009, 12:37 PM
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My wishes
Im german, so be not surprised, if my text have some mistakes
 In Thief 3 i really missed secret rooms. All things you found without problems. But you play a thief and finding money and things is an important piece of the game, so this part must be more difficult. In Thief 3 i hate the mission in the asylum. The atmosphere was very great and it was really mystic, no question. But it was also boring. No enemies, only some creatures you cant kill. I dont like zombies and all creatures you cant kill with arrows or your knife. The saurian humans in Thief 3 in the citadell are ok, cause they have human "skills"(I dont know the english word, this is the nearest to that i mean ). But all creatures you have to kill with holy water or special glyphs are not so good in my think of view. In the german version of Thief there're only subtitles, I would be lucky, if there are german voices in Thief 4, either.The main character MUST be Garrett, without Garrett it isnt Thief. Yours Last edited by Manki; 09-22-2009 at 12:42 PM. |
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#1008
09-22-2009, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
__________________
I have played T1Gold, T2, T2X, CoSaS, many other FMs and TDS. I still play T2 and FMs today. When I am dying I will look back at how little I have done with my life and be glad at how much fun it was. |
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#1010
09-22-2009, 11:53 PM
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#1011
09-23-2009, 12:18 AM
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i dont mind having to put "non loot" items down if i have picked them up. what was more annoying was (and im sure im not imagining this) in dark project, and possibly metal age, sometimes for example a particular candle stick was loot, but other times in the mission, the exact same type of candle stick wasnt loot so u had to pick it up to see if it was loot or not, and it either went "cha ching" (insert loot noise) or just went into your hands. possibly loot glint was added to cut this out, not sure, but would of liked some consistency. how could 2 identical looking items sitting next to each other not be the same? wine bottles in racks etc spring to mind. either make all the green wine bottles or whatever loot in a mission, or make them nothing. having siad that, loot glint wasnt to my liking, but, seeing as its a bone of contention in these threads, why not include it, but have an option to turn it off?
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#1013
09-23-2009, 12:45 AM
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No hammer-throwing? No improvised noisemaking? No item "triage" at all? |
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#1014
09-23-2009, 04:21 AM
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just make loot look like loot without the glint, and keys look like keys without the once every five second flash so you have to stare at it for ages before you realise it's a key and you can pick it up |
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#1016
09-23-2009, 05:42 AM
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First things first:
- no Garrett equals no Thief - Thievery, not killing. (although a good shot arrow now and then could be fun, but NEVER necessary) Furthermore: - I liked the need to steal to survive. Best missions in my opinion were the 'normal' stealing missions. I do NOT like the supernatural missions. I'd rather see taking on the Pagans and all in the normal world. Undead are okay for a bit, but not full missions with em. Cut back on the abnormalities! - The secret societies are cool, but I don't think they would be telling Garrett too much. He jst has a job to do. Let's make Garrett guess what exactly they want and keep the mystery in it. Could make cool remarks like we are used to from our masterthief  .- Garrett is a thief trying to survive. Why not make him do missions for everyone who pays him. - I like the idea, mentioned earlier about deducting the minimum loot after the mission for evening Garretts expenses. If he wants more for himself he's gotta try harder. - The open city is great, but I would like to see dynamics. Different hours give different chances. People are sometimes bolted tight and sometimes open a window for a bit, and such. This would keep the open city more of a challenge. And it would keep him coming back for more. And maybe even deals being made and all in teh middle of the night between people and such. Garrett woudl then just wander about the city hoping for a sudden chance for loot. - Dropping items should be easy for a thief who can even move without making much sound. Not being able to put something back without trouble is being out of character. - The glinster of loot is not needed, but Garrett should be able to guess the loot from a distance. He's been into thieving for years. Off course, he wouldn't now exactly and it would be a price range. So you know how much trouble for that single loot would be profitable. Of course, good imitations are only noticable when held in hand . So sometimes he could be wrong from a distance .
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#1017
09-24-2009, 06:27 AM
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ok, so here is my 2 cents worth of input for thief 4
im sure some of these will of been mentioned, and some you wont agree with, but they are ideas, didnt say they were all good garrett as main character. yeah, i know, 99% of people have said this, just adding my voice to the obvious, giving strength to the arguement. just wouldnt be the same without him. he IS thief, not some chick, not some apprentice, not anyone else. period, full stop, THE END. Stephen Russell as the voice actor. (gee must be an echo in here!!!) id like to see garret nimble, dexterous, but not over the top. hes a thief, not an acrobat or ninja etc. lets keep it with what we have had and know, and loved. keep the wall hugging, crouching. id like to see a variety of missions in a variety of locations as with the other games, in mansions, underground, banks, cathedrals etc, out in the open city, over the roof tops. No or limited weapon upgrades. Don’t want to see him starting the game with a simple bow and by the end its been upgraded so its got heat seaking, night vision, rapid firing automatic, laser sighted smart arrows on it. Keep things simple, he doesn’t need too much additional firepower or flashy gadgets, hes got by just fine with what hes had in the past. If there are any upgrade type things, perhaps he only has them for a specific mission, maybe some sort of scenario where hes hired to do a particularly hard job and needs his new improved bow etc or whatever to complete it but he has to give it back to whoever at the end of the mission or maybe he could lose it near the end of the mission. But certainly not ongoing and sustained upgrades. No outlandish new arrows, he doesn’t need an arrow that makes guards deaf so he can rum past. No outlandish potions, slow fall, invisibility etc. perhaps health potions can be either very very rare, or replaced with some sort of bandage, not something that can replenish health instantly. He should have to heal slowly with food and bandages. The actual game name itself. To be honest, I don’t know why people are getting so upset. I agree, im not a fan of the idea of thi4f but lets face it, its not like every 5 mins in the game a huge flashing banner appears and a voice booms out “YOU ARE PLAYING THI4F”. once the disc is in and the sneaking is happening, who cares, it could be called “the wonderful adventures of the naughty sneaksie mr garrett” and we would all buy it. A weight system? Haven’t had one in the past, why have one now? To be honest, it’s a game, and we have to suspend some portions of reality when we play. We accept we are running around a city as a guy with a fully functioning zoom eye, something modern medicine hasn’t crafted as yet as far as im aware, full of magic, undead, chicks who shoot branches from their arms and huge rats and craymen set a few hundred years before modern time and all the other weird and wonderful things, but we debate if “carrying a few candlesticks and a few arrows etc should slow us down”. This to me is hardly the most unrealistic part of the game. Everyone happily ran about playing duke nukem and all the other fps games with 10 or so weapons, millions of rounds of ammo and we just accept it. There has to be some trade off to make the game playable. If u want to take everything out that’s either not possible or far fetched, would be much left. (hmmm, health potions and robotic servants spring to mind). Don’t have a weight system, who wants to see garrett puffin and panting cause hes fully loaded with loot by the end of a mission. Id like to see more tools for breaking and entering and general thievery. In a previous post I mentioned the idea of a glass cutter to quietly slice a chunk of window open, slip in the hand, open the latch, and hes in. (wont repeat all that, u can read for yourself). Other than that though, in the past there has been limited options when garrett gets to a door. Its locked, so pick it, or steal the key, that’s about it. Id like to see other tools or ways of working around things, like the glass cutter, maybe some pry bar for forcing windows open or doors, anything. Keen to see what others can suggest in this area, just feel he needs more options and more gadgets without going too over the top. Deus ex usually had a few ways around a problem, would like to see garrett using different tools other than lock picks alone. AI need to be a lot better this time around. I know gaming is a lot more advanced now so it probably will be, goes without say. They should pretty much be able to go wherever u can go, climb ladders, run, jump, mantle. More aware of their surrounds. U could open a door behind them and they would just keep whistling. Aware people and loot is missing etc, just more aware. They should be able to relight candles, torches, turn lights back on etc. liked garrets ability to pinch out candles in t3. differing levels of “brain power” in guards and AI in general. What u can get away with with one guard, maybe you cant with another. Hes just better at his job, or better rested, more alert etc, just come on duty, fresh, ready for his shift. More random patrols for guards, not so much “up and back” and “round and round”. Like to see a return to familiar locations, but places we didn’t get into last time. Remember playing half life and thinking “wonder what is over there”, then in opposing force and blue shift, we often got to go to the places we saw from the first game. We could return to angel watch, haunted cathedral, etc. For example, the hammers have smashed thru a cave revealing a lot more of the lost city. A section of wall has come down and there is a lot more of the walled off section of the city to explore. Like to see weather, rain, fog, lightning. Imagine hiding in the shadow and a huge lightning bolt lights the street, making a guard think hes caught sight of you, and then the chase is on. Side quests and lots of them that can be undertaken at any point in the game. Exploration should be rewarded. Going to all the effort to scale up onto a rooftop and peer into the gutter on the edge should have u finding that lost ring etc. how about there is 1 thing in particular you have to find or one thing in particular you have to achieve in every level that’s the same, some sort of ongoing goal system that spans the entire game, not just each individual level. Say first up in the game, your fence says he has a collector willing to pay huge for a set of golf clubs once owned by karras and you should be keeping and eye out for them, and then subsequently u find 1 club per level. (yeah I know,bad example but you get the idea), or 12 pieces of some blah blah medallion, which are strewn through out the entire game, I piece per level. When you have all of pieces, they could combine to do something, maybe be a keystone that opens something or gets you somewhere you haven’t been able to get until then. Would help join each level to the next beyond the ongoing story having an ongoing “side goal” kinda. Having said that, loot, weapons etc shouldn’t carry over, don’t want to see garrett having enough cash near the end to buy an arsenal of stuff. He should have just enough to survive. Personally, I use very very few arrows of any kinda or other stuff, flashbombs, mines etc. just survive on sneaking and hiding, using timing. Secret areas, secret passages, secret loot, secret everything. Again, exploration should be rewarded. Easter eggs, lots of them, the weirder the better. References to the other 3 games. Garrett should be able to crouch low enough to climb under tables. Imagine being in the middle of a large dining room, when suddenly a guard flings a door open and comes in on patrol. Crouching under the table, watching his feet round the table, wondering if he suspects you are there, if any part of your clothes are poking out and hes spotted you. Garrett should also be able to draw curtains in rooms. Moonlight or external street lighting etc flooding a room making it bright, so garrett can draw the curtains. AI could notice this has been done. Imagine being in a room when someone enters and u have to hide behind a curtain. You can hear them walking around in the room but not sure if they are coming up to where you are, if they have seen you or noticed the curtain move. Would make for some interesting eavesdropping scenarios also. Garretts wit and sarcasm etc must stay, keep em coming. Along with the dialogue with the guards, some of the conversations are great. Bring back the rope arrow but (yes there is a but), could it be made so the entire rope is frobbable when you aren’t on it? I remember having to climb up a rope to the actual shaft was in reach to get it back, which meant pulling it out while u were hanging on it, often falling a great difference. Kinda felt like sawing thru a tree branch while you are standing on it. How about when you have shot it into the roof/beam etc and climbed down it u can tug on it while standing on the ground and it comes free. Having said that, Im not opposed to the climbing gloves also (yes, I know ive just made enemies here, hehe). The gloves kinda reminded me of that scene in conan where they climb up the outside of that huge snake tower to steal that big jewel. Id like to see garrett getting into places with more climbing and exploration. Up drain pipes, up trellises etc. Less undead, well, less zombies, the hammer haunts are fricken scary, keep them. The undead have their place, quite liked the mission where they were in the basement in the crypt and the humans where upstairs in t3. Mission location ideas – everyone seems to like the creepy ones, how about he does a spot of grave robbery in a massive grave yard full of crypts, loaded with haunts and tunnels, and guards to stop grave robbers. Weirdo locations like constantines with the upside down walls etc, (those giggling girls freaked me out). A few twists and turns in the mission goals. Going in to find the guy murdered was a good one. Going to grab the eye only find having to go do other missions first was also good. Like to see unexplained creepy things, not necessarily connected to the plot. I know I stood at the entrance to the nut house for ages convinced I saw something moving crappin myself, as it turned out, something was moving. I know I was waiting for one of those big stone gargoyle things to swoop down from a roof at one point outside in the game, or that one in the court yard to come alive. I could swear I saw one move at one stage. Little creepy things make games like this. Imagine coming around the corner and seeing some creepy thing clinging to the wall, like the creeper in jeepers creepers. It watches you, and as u stop dead in your tracks, it darts around the next corner. Is it waiting for you there in the dark? WTF was it? Some new enemy to face? Whats it going to do? How are u going to proceed? I bet you quick save right then and there! Have things darting about in the shadows, or something lifting a sewer grate and dragging a cat in. you walk past some crates, and they come tumbling down, then something scurries off into an alley. The city is full of weird, strange beings, who knows whats lurking. Im all for a mixture of the hand drawn cut scenes and animated ones. Lets face it, having your eye ripped out wouldn’t of been anywhere near as good as one of the hand drawn ones. Loot glint, well, make it an option to turn off if its included. Id like to see a return to the highlighted object in its own colours than the “blue” highlight on using objects. 3rd person view, again, if you don’t like it, don’t play it. I don’t see it as necessary, though was kinda handy when climbing as u cant turn your head 180 to see whats going on.(im sure it will be included though to cater for the inevitable console release, as will load screens). The main players in the city need to return, the hammers, keepers, pagans, city watch etc. All still trying to gain control, fighting for power etc. As for a main foe, its difficult cause this isn’t a FPS in the traditional sense where u get the last mission and theres the big bad mutha so u pull out your biggest bestest gun and go at it toe to toe, garrett cant be fighting a main foe, didn’t in the other 3 games. Personally, I for one would of loved to of been able to get into karras’s room, shove that microphone down his throat and punch him in the face but that’s not what these games are about. Don’t bring back either of the 3 past foes, they have had their go, need a new main foe to beat, kill, destroy, or whatever. |
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#1018
09-24-2009, 07:33 AM
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Zhunt's 2 cents are spot on !
Except for the climbing gloves and the collectables in each mission that unlocks something else at the end, because I prefer unconnected missions. What if you just couldn't find one piece and moved on.... it requires you to be able to return to a previous mission to search for it. But these are the only things I disagree with. Everything else is very well explained and well written. I couldn't have said it better. |
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#1019
09-24-2009, 08:20 AM
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thank you zhunt, that's a very accurate description, but I disagree with the same thing Quad said, It forces the player a way to play through a level if he wants to get somewhere else in another mission. And I don't think the player should be pushed to do anything at all. It's all in the hands of the player himself
__________________
Hello EM! *akward silence* |
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#1020
09-24-2009, 10:06 AM
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Yeah..This what other says..But please, if most people don't like undeads, but don't make them less...Thief without zombies is not Thief.Thief without zombies is Quake without rocket jumping.Thief without zombies is Mario without goombas.Thief without zombies is Need For Speed where you are using bikes.Thief without zombies is ketchup without tomatoes.Robbing the Cradle again please(or something like climatical and scary!!!).
What would you say on something like "mario" makeing on guards.I have in mind allow Garrett(or other main character) jump on thier heads.Its will make effect like blackjack'ed.(character must be on roof for example ofc) Last edited by wojbik; 09-24-2009 at 10:16 AM. |
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#1021
09-24-2009, 11:30 AM
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 I don't like the idea of just jumping on their heads... Jumping behind them from a higher position and using your blackjack in mid-air would be more the way I imagine how it should go.
__________________
Hello EM! *akward silence* |
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#1022
09-24-2009, 04:30 PM
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actually after playing t3 last night again a bit and using the gloves and then watching some gameplay walk thrus on you tube of t1 and 2 with the rope arrow, please allow me to retract my previous heresy. WHAT WAS I THINKING!!. rope arrow all the way, no gloves.
As for the idea of having scattered things thru levels that combine or form a set at the end, wouldnt have to necessarily combine to unlock something etc, might just be a case of achieving and optional goal, or playing the same cut scene as others see who dont find them all except it differs slightly with your fence or whoever saying "and good job getting all the blah blah, whats his name will be please". perhaps finding all the pieces just opens some weird easter egg of some sort, who knows. i was never intending the idea to mean that you had to revisit a level on which u didnt find a piece or that u couldnt finish a level until you found it, more that its an ongoing option. just something extra to give you that warm fuzzy "im a fricken awesome thief cause i found everything" feeling we all get when we see 100% loot in the stats
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#1023
09-24-2009, 04:48 PM
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Collecting a full set of jewels all cut from the same stone, a full collection of an artist's paintings, a full set of 5 special coins given by the monarchy to each of five members of the elite guard, and so on.
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#1024
09-24-2009, 05:52 PM
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was thinking maybe a chess set so there are 2-3 pieces per level scattered about. originally owned by whomever, worth a truckload for some reason. sold off, bits seperated by accident, mistake. some stolen, one or 2 lost down a drain , a few bits in the rubble of a house, 1 bit buried in a grave with someone, whatever, where ever, anywhere and everywhere in random places through the game. |
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