YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

[CerraMorgan]

Hm, I've been replaying TDS lately, just for a change, and of course it's reminded me of what I did & didn't like about it.

1. I miss swimming. Please bring back swimming!
2. Ditto the rope arrows.
3. There aren't enough houses to break into in the city area.
4. The game was too linear - either you're in the city or you're in a mission and even when in the city you usually have a clear set of objectives. Goals are good, but there's no real opportunity (or incentive) to explore. In the first mission, you actually aren't allowed to explore - if you don't follow the instructions within a set period of time, the game puts you back at the last training success and gives you the next instructions again. Personally, I found this detracted from the experience. It was like following a set of instructions - do A, then B, then C - rather than playing an immersive game.
5. The crates are pretty much useless. Tempting, but useless. Crate stacking was one of the most fun things in the first two games.
6. Rooftop exploring was pretty much non-existent. Once you get the climbing gloves, you can climb a few walls, but other than picking up a gas arrow or two, there really isn't much point. It also makes it too easy to get away after alerting guards. Just climb a wall and hide in the shadows!
7. I never really understood the faction status. Garrett making friends with his enemies, just so he can get around their places easier? I would increase the faction status just so I could walk in easily and steal stuff, then sneak out. When I needed to get back in, I would repeat the process.
8. The storyline was actually pretty good at the beginning. It wasn't until nearer the end that it struck me as a little thin and undeveloped, particularly with the final city mission. Maybe this was a result of the developers not having enough time to finish things properly. Personally, I'd rather wait longer for something to be finished properly than have something slapped together just to meet a deadline.
9. I really liked how actions taken (or not taken) affected the rest of the game. For example, when you encounter the false Garrett receiving instructions on stealing the golden dagger, you can either knock him out or let him go his merry way. If you choose to let him go, he later kills someone in the shop and you run into him there. The game doesn't go as far as to actually let him steal the dagger and making you miss the chance, but the potential is there. There's a similar consequence in the Widow Moira mission that carries over to the City.
10. I really hate how the blackjack works in this game.
11. I loved the "bonus" mission, getting sent to Pavelock prison was pretty cool.
12. I'm torn on the value making the first mission the training mission. On one hand, it does force the player to take the training, and the controls were different enough from the previous games that it was rather necessary the first time through. On the other hand, it's really frustrating on replay.
13. Lockpicking is pretty cool. Being able to see the tumblers and the lockpicks is an improvement, though I didn't like being "locked" into the motion. If you're trying to ghost, you really have to listen for footsteps and pay attention to patrol routes to make sure you exited the lockpicking screen before getting caught. Not too thrilled about being dragged around front, though. Honestly, any decent thief could certainly figure out how to lockpick while standing to the side or leaning over the top of a chest. Plus, I figured out how to use that as a kind of "cheat" - you can hide in nearby shadows (close enough for a locked item to highlight) until a guard passes, then click on the item and let the game drag you instead of having to walk over. It's great when you're on a noisy surface, because you make no sound and avoid using moss arrows. You can even hide behind what you want to lockpick and it'll work as long as you can highlight it.
14. My controls weren't sensitive enough. Perhaps it was just my computer, but I found that often I would have to frob things multiple times because just clicking the mouse button wasn't working - I had to click and hold for it to register.
15. Cutscenes sometimes end by dumping you right in the way of a guard. The first one, for example, sends you around the corner into a lighted area right into a guard's patrol route when it's over. Why doesn't it end the same place it started?
16. Nowhere near enough secrets, and the ones that do exist are part of the mission and don't count as secrets. Secrets and bonus objectives are probably my two most favourite things in TMA and the fan missions.
17. Difficulty levels are pretty much irrelevant. Yes, the game is harder because the enemies are tougher, but really - you can achieve all objectives and get all loot on all difficulties. You get no extra goodies for trying a harder level.
18. No real incentive not to kill everything in sight. OK, so you occasionally have a "no kill" or "no blackjack" restriction, such as when you're in the Keeper Library, but for the most part, you can be as bloodthirsty as you want. A major reason I liked the first two games so much was because it wasn't a shoot-em-up killfest
19. The graphics are pretty great, way better than in the first two, definitely. I'm looking forward to even better graphics in #4.
20. TDS is way too easy, especially once you've played it through the first time.

Well, that was considerably longer than I'd intended it to be.

[PhotonDude]

My thoughts would be to stay with the look and feel of Thief One...
Please Don't:
Add alot of Zombies...still gives me nightmares
Side jobs to make friends with Pagans or Hammerites...busy work that mucks the plot
No BUSY save the Ghost mission...busy work that mucks the plot
No BUSY build this and save the world plots...see above
Bring back the climbing gloves...next Garrett shoots web from this hands
Make the city map so big you have to look at it every time you make a turn

Do:
Keep it simple and fun with plot twists and full of humor and hidden goodies!
Bring back rope ladders
Stay to the original
and add the "Garrett Sneaks into the Brothel" Mission
Great thought out plot and characters
Straight forward plot and NO "I have to build a cookie stand and make friends with the girl scouts to get my next information" missions
Make it fun and entertaining!
I hope others give their opinion and make this game a great one and makes us forget T3!
Thanks

[Goldfish King]

I liked Thief 1 the best, because it had Burricks and the levels had a lot of variety and creativity. I really love Thief 2 though. Thief 3 is my least favorite (although I still like it) because the plot wasn't as good as the previous games, it had climbing gloves, and the loot always turned blue. I think that you should bring back the Burricks, and add some new creatures. Especially Craymen. And maybe that weird monster that's always mounted on walls, but isn't in the games. Please make there be more Tree beats also. I really like enemy variety, so I don't think you should get rid of any creatures, and use them in the right places. It'll make the game longer, but I don't think any of us will mind that. Please bring back the rope arrow. The climbing gloves makes it too easy. I'd like to see some new, clever gadgets. And maybe make the Sunburst device more available. Definately keep secrets, because those are fun to find. I like the dagger in place of the sword, because a sword isn't really a theif's choice weapon. I hope to see a game with good graphics, a great plot, excellent gameplay, and decent challenges. And no glitches. Please, if you make it so that we can get in some place, make sure we can get out if the place. I always seem to get stuck. In Thief 1, you were trying to defeat the Trickster. In Thief 2, you're after Karras. In Thief 3, you're always chasing the Hag. The point is, there's always one individual you're trying to defeat in the end. Just one. In Thief 4, I think it'd be a good idea to have multiple plot lines. Have two or three people that you're after.

[CerraMorgan]

How about having food that heals (at least a little) when you eat it?

Having frobbable food, especially if it goes into your inventory, is pointless otherwise. TMA had food that healed, and I really liked it. OK, so you had to eat maybe 20 apples to heal one health bar, but in a pinch it was quite useful.

[Some Jerk]

Originally Posted by Quad

The missions and levels IS Thief. I wish it could, but dynamically generated missions is wishfull thinking. But large maps will surely compensate. Remember "Life of the Party"?

Not all of the missions have to pertain to the story. getting side-tracked lengthens the game... which improves the over-all experience. The longer a player can spend playing a game (s)he bought... the more satisfied they are with what they spent money on. The reverse is true also... where beating a game is a sense of accomplishment that a player strives for. I play theif for several reasons...the story is fun, but so are the handful of ways to kill time. Growing both would do wonders for this game.

Originally Posted by Quad

Hmmm... this sounds like : "I want Garrett with a jetpack." I'm afraid I can't follow you in here. I want Garrett to be the same kind of thief in the first mission as in the last mission. He's already a Master Thief, remember? He might acquire special tools during the game, but please, no magic/sorcery.

*** Perhaps I'll put it a different way. One of my favorite things about the game is that the character has the same "abilities"... As he was raised by the keepers I am surprised though that he cannot use a keeper wand. I think that it would be nice to have a bit more diversity in the way that he is played and the abilities that are used is all. The wand isn't all that different from a bow as far as I can tell.. but the point is that it provides more variety in how the game is played and as this is the kind of game that you play over and over again in different ways (example... I have played empty handed throughout nearly the entire game before and I have played trying to kill everyone). That is where I would like the variety increased.

[Some Jerk]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Garrett don't need anything new or any upgrade. He's perfect. Any problem struggling through a mission comes from a lack of player-skill, which can be built up so the player becomes the master that Garrett already is. The fact a player can play the game without using equipment at all--except when forced to by design--should be a major clue.

you missunderstand. I didn't say these are things that he needed. I am speaking of diversity in game play, and not ease. Take a look at Fable. There is a principal story and a common way of going about it... and you can do it that way our you can spend hours and hours doing your own thing. You can accomplish objectives one of a large variety of ways and the objectives are equally challenging. Fable is the opposite extreme... but I think that it serves its purpose in this explanation.

[Some Jerk]

Originally Posted by CerraMorgan

How about having food that heals (at least a little) when you eat it?

Having frobbable food, especially if it goes into your inventory, is pointless otherwise. TMA had food that healed, and I really liked it. OK, so you had to eat maybe 20 apples to heal one health bar, but in a pinch it was quite useful.

I might have suggested instead a steady regeneration (that is incredibly slow). The point of the game is stealth... I have played it without healing at all.

[Some Jerk]

Since it invariably creates controversy... here is a list of suggested supplies:
1. Grappling hook
2. Caltrops
3. Duct Tape
4. Pantyhose (pervert raids would be funny)... any hopposai fans out there?
5. whoopie cushion
6. Sprays (Ahhem, Excuse me).
7. marbles
8. smoke bombs
9. wire (I like the way they do it in hitman)
10. Chain (there are always uses for such things)

etc.
those of you who think that I was asking for oozies and Dark Jeti powers can find another post to get militant about. I just want more pranks and mayhem... after all this is the lure that thief holds for me.

[jtr7]

Originally Posted by Some Jerk

you missunderstand. I didn't say these are things that he needed. I am speaking of diversity in game play, and not ease. Take a look at Fable. There is a principal story and a common way of going about it... and you can do it that way our you can spend hours and hours doing your own thing. You can accomplish objectives one of a large variety of ways and the objectives are equally challenging. Fable is the opposite extreme... but I think that it serves its purpose in this explanation.

I wasn't speaking to you, just reiterating a point. Nothing personal at all.





Looking around in T3Ed, I found that something like the plumsies are in the object hierarchy, just never used in-game, and even listed under Quest Items. Actually, instead of large plums, they are pear-shaped but plumsie violet. They are labeled "Pagan Fruit", "Pagan Fruit Bloody" (though it looks the same), and "Pagan Fruit Charred" (though it looks the same). They thought of it, but didn't finish it or chose not to use it.

[CerraMorgan]

Originally Posted by Some Jerk

I have played it without healing at all.

As have I, but sometimes injuries happen no matter how carefully you play - perhaps you fall awkwardly and lose a point or two, maybe you miscalculate a jump, etc.

I would greatly prefer edible (healing) food over a gradually increasing health monitor. That just seems too cheat-like for me - at least with food (as with healing potions) you have to make an effort to go get it, instead of just plunking Garrett down in a dark corner and going to watch TV for a while.

[Goldfish King]

More suggestions:
1. Guards/creatures with unique personalities and character traits
2. Make the game so that once you beat it, all the levels will be unlocked, so you won't have to reply all the levels to redo one you really like.
3. In between levels, have the option to roam about the city collecting loot to buy more equipment for the next mission.
4. Make Garret be able to jump higher.
5. Have a kick ability to knock back enemies.
6. Throwing knives/stars.
7. Flying enemies/creatures.
8. Make more creatures (not necessarily enemies) that are harmless, like chickens, cows, birds, etc. to make the environment more realistic.
9. Make it so that throwing boxes and hammers and other various useless objects at guards hurt them.

[BrotherMuras]

il just make a list of stuff id like for thief 4 ... Yes .. THIEF 4 ... not THI4F.. thats my first request .

2 - T4 should be inspired by T1 and T2 ... not T3.
3 - No more gloves .. bring back the rope and vine arrows.
4 - Bring back swimming .
5 - It would feel great to remain in the same age as in t1 and t2 .... t3 didnt introduce much of a new era ..
6 - Only 1st person view would be nice ..
7 - Remove the whole "venture into the city at night" theme .... plz change the progressive game format to that of T1 and T2 .... i didnt like the fact that we could choose our own missions .
8 - If we realy have to go out into the city .. It should be via the rooftops .. like the mission Life Of The Party . After all rooftops are the Thieves Highway.

And yeah .. I like photon dudes idea of a Garret sneaks into the brothel mission XD .... there should be newer and unique places for t4 .

[BrotherMuras]

Oh and one more ... Make it a lot more difficult and challenging .... t3 was easy as pie .

[Goldfish King]

More ideas:
1. It'd be sweet if this game was extremely long. I'd love it if it had 50 missions, however unlikely that is.
2. Definately bring back swimming.
3. Horse mounted guards, but make them rare.
4. 1st person view.
5. This might be a stretch, but I haven't seen any signs of a military anywhere in the games. I think this should be remedied. Maybe Garret has to steal plans from them or something.
6. Make more breakables. The only breakable objects are pretty much glass and crates. When I do a place like Soulforge, I want to be able to break the machines that build things.
7. A bonus level that's unrelated to the missions where you can fight all the various enemies, and have them fight each other, like a colosseum.
8. Like other people have said, don't make a level with one kind of enemy. Instead, have two or three kinds of enemies in a level, and maybe one will attack one of the other two if they come in contact.

[Goldfish King]

I don't particularly care if this idea is used, but there could be an assassin group that Garret tries to shut down. Maybe they're killing the rich lords and barons before he can rob them.

[Goldfish King]

Also, Garret should be able to shoot arrows from ladders.

[PlumsieTaker]

Originally Posted by Goldfish King

Also, Garret should be able to shoot arrows from ladders.

So he's gonna hold onto the ladder with his teeth while using both arms to shoot a bow?

[jtr7]

Naw. Hook a leg around (if there's room enough behind it), and hook a foot back over a rung. I've done this when I was a child on the school playground when I've needed my hands free for a moment. In real life this would slow down a getaway, but it would work for firing an arrow to one side (he'd have to be quick about it, uncomfortable as it would be). A person's range of motion would be hampered quite a bit. Also, it's actually completely reasonable a person could even toss gear like flashbombs while on a ladder or rope. I still want to know how climbing gloves cause the knees and/or feet to grip the wall so well, too.

[PlumsieTaker]

Yeah, throwing flashies and other gear is quite plausible from a ladder. But shooting a bow would be very uncomfortable and movement would be restricted, although quite possible.

[Vae]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Naw. Hook a leg around (if there's room enough behind it), and hook a foot back over a rung. I've done this when I was a child on the school playground when I've needed my hands free for a moment. In real life this would slow down a getaway, but it would work for firing an arrow to one side (he'd have to be quick about it, uncomfortable as it would be). A person's range of motion would be hampered quite a bit. Also, it's actually completely reasonable a person could even toss gear like flashbombs while on a ladder or rope. I still want to know how climbing gloves cause the knees and/or feet to grip the wall so well, too.

Those climbing gloves are a joke, really. As for hooking your leg around a ladder...could be fun, but there would need to be a short fatigue timer (like when using the bow) while using your arms for weapons/items...too long and you would fall......Actually, "leg hooking" need not a separate command, it could be an automatic action if you were to pull out a weapon/item whilst climbing a ladder.

[jtr7]

Right, it could just shorten the time for bow fatigue to kick in, too.

[The Keeper]

All 3 Games were good but Thief 2 was the best but Deadly Shadows was good too I'd like to be able to explore the city but just to break in armories houses and taverns.And people will crucify the team if it sucks (but I wouldn't Montreal is to far away from where I live in).Don't make the ending feel climactic by having a big and loud ending that abandons any kind of stealth gameplay.Make the game non-linear by adding multiple ways to reach the objective and NO SEWER LEVELS PLEASE.Make the game for PC only don't dum it down for the console tards.Don't brak up the missions and City with loadzones.No undead.

[Davehall380]

No Undead? What about HC and RTHC? One of the best levels of the Thief series.

[Hecateus]

4. Pantyhose (pervert raids would be funny)... any hopposai fans out there?

Ah, the Eeeevil Master.

[The Keeper]

Please have multiple voice actors for the guards and citizens cause we don't want to hear hove a guy is talking to himself about buying from a shop owned by himself and PLEASE NO LOVE INTREST OR FEMALE PARTNER DON'T IT UP.