YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

[Fatherwoodsie]

me too

[jtr7]

Agreed.

What I hope the devs do NOT do, is see all these cool things the engine can do, and try to use them all in the game, forgetting it's not about the new toy, but about a Thief game. Let the story and atmosphere rule the day, and build the world with more length and breadth and depth than we've seen, and with more detail to admire while exploring the world, and bring back the awe of just wanting to soak in it.

[Kold]

Agreed! Well put jtr7

[TheEye]

what i'd like to see in T4:
1) 3rd person again-it was cool
2)a good plot that does not give away the ending - like TDP or TMA
3)more freedom, bigger city districts - liked the idea that i'm not confined to the missions only
4)larger and longer mission levels( i don't mean like TMA last and impossible mission but not like the clock tower as well)

[esme]

what was impossible about the final TMA mission ?

[jtr7]

Originally Posted by TheEye

2)a good plot that does not give away the ending - like TDP or TMA

Are you saying TDP/TMA gave away the ending and TDS did not, or that TDS did give away the ending, and TDP/TMA did not?

[FriendlyStranger]

Wow I just noticed this thread - people I gotta warn you:

YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

At the current thread moving/merging rate this special thread here will suck every other thread on these boards like a black hole within the next two weeks... what should we do?

[jtr7]

Pay attention to old threads before starting new ones that don't say anything that wouldn't fit right into an old thread? We've got three "Loot" threads on the first page, and there's no good reason for the separation. It's not understood here that starting new thread after redundant new thread pushes topics off the page. As soon as a topic drops off the first page, a new thread is started saying nothing significantly new, and we have to come in and spice it up, or watch it get merged by those who are paying attention, rather than simply continue with the original thread. Similar ideas scattered across a hundred threads is not easy for the devs to read up on. Keeping it consolidated is easier to take notes with.

[FriendlyStranger]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Pay attention to old threads before starting new ones that don't say anything that wouldn't fit right into an old thread? We've got three "Loot" threads on the first ...

Yeah - that may be correct for the three loot threads, but having 10 ass-long mammut threads will lead to noone reading them... I've seen some threads where it really wouldn't have been necessary to merge --> a little joke has to be allowed then.

[jtr7]

Yes. There's no way to keep it from being messy. I really don't have a gripe about it, but some of the reactions against it still seem over-the-top.

[killerclick]

Originally Posted by Abelo

· Never try to be more casual for the sake of sales. I feel it was one of the biggest flaws in Deadly Shadows. Try to be casual for the sake of good gameplay design and fun, but keeping the layers of depth - Blizzard style. Sales are a consequence.

And what happened to the developers of the previous Thief games?

[jtr7]

Their fellow employees in other departments had two games that bombed, and the budget took two fatal blows. LGS wasn't killed by making the Thief games the way they did.

Daikatana was one bomb, and there was another one.



Also, a couple of games by other companies were released the same year as TDP. One of them was Half-Life.

[TheEye]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Are you saying TDP/TMA gave away the ending and TDS did not, or that TDS did give away the ending, and TDP/TMA did not?

brethren and betrayer - bang! the second i heard that it all became clear - someone is gonna backstab you and the keepers (not orland cuz he's too obvious).
the dark project - you learn about the trickster and his plan in the very end!
the metal age - you learn about the plan near the end

what i'm saying i hope thi4f is more like TDP - keeping you in the dark until the end!

[TheEye]

Originally Posted by esme

what was impossible about the final TMA mission ?

not impossible i mean but very long and somewhat annoying in its length

[jtr7]

Originally Posted by TheEye

brethren and betrayer - bang! the second i heard that it all became clear - someone is gonna backstab you and the keepers (not orland cuz he's too obvious).
the dark project - you learn about the trickster and his plan in the very end!
the metal age - you learn about the plan near the end

what i'm saying i hope thi4f is more like TDP - keeping you in the dark until the end!

Oh good! I agree. I just wasn't sure.

[FriendlyStranger]

I woul'd like to have T4 are more detailed NPC reaction to damage and attacks. If you shoot an arrow into someones leg, it should stick there and hinder the movement of this character. Maybe this arrow could be picked up by the player after the NPC, has stopped ehmm moving.

Its not like Thief was about fighting, but nontheless this would add in greatly, because it provides more detail to the environment.

[jtr7]

Fire an arrow into an AI--damage--run by an yank it out--more damage.


If we had horizontal rope arrows, we could fire it at an AI, then yank them to the ground and drag them.


I know it's been discussed somewhere in the past forums, but I'd like to be reminded of the reasons why retrievable arrows from AI could not be implemented because of a series of problems it introduced. It's something probably all of us wondered about when seeing our arrows just disappear in most instances, yet they would stick into wood and dirt. Maybe there's a way to do this now?

[Tutonic Drone]

I am new to this series and am sad to admit that I played TDS first. I will have everyone know that I did go back and learned quickly how much better the first 2 are. Here are my suggestions for the next Thief game and hopefully Garret's next adventure.

1:New Arrows. I can think of 2 that I want. Ice Arrows to slip up guards and peasants, should be lots of fun. Magnet Arrows, expensive arrows that temporarily turn off electric lights. I want these things to be super expensive though. I don't want to throw them around like water arrows.

2:Better use for gold. I hate how I spend a whole mission collecting money and I then waste it all on 10 water arrows. Give me something to work for. I don't want a weapon here just something to look cool. Let me pimp out my hideout or Blackjack or cloak or something. If nothing else give me a vault to sit and stare at my loot. If Garret broke even every time he did a job he would stop stealing the dude is greedy as a politician. (I don't mean to insult Garret here I love him for his flaws)

3:Better Eye Mechanics. Get it? Eye Mechanics. Yeah I didn't really find it funny either... All I want here is better zoom than TDS, and maybe bring back the Scouting Orb, Or cooler yet a scouting mechanical rat would be nice. Make all the guards talk about rats a little ironic.

4:Holy Water...Syringe? Okay this one I'm still a little foggy on how to do it right. What I want in terms of mechanics is something that I can use to sneak up behind a zombie and stab him in the neck with to get rid of him. I would like it to be a one use item so you can't go around pretty much blackjacking zombies but I would like more options on how to take them out

Anyway hope and pray these guys don't mess with the formula to much but I feel like these little addons will make it a lot of fun. Also could we all just pretend that nothing happened in TDS. Garret becoming a Keeper is like Kim Jong-il becoming a pacifist, it goes against all he stands for.

[jtr7]

Well! That's quite an interesting mix of information! Welcome! I'm sure by now you know how rare it is for one to start with TDS but become more appreciative of the older titles. I hope this unique insight can bridge the gap in thinking so both sides can have a bit more respect for the others (heh heh heh).

I like your post, Tutonic. I don't want more arrows and a zombie doesn't have a working circulatory system, but good post nonetheless.

[Fatherwoodsie]

the magnet arrows and holy water syringe ideas are cool but i dont like the pimp my cloak idea. we shouldnt ever even see garretts cloak 3rd person view shouldnt even be an option

[Odyseeos]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Agreed.

What I hope the devs do NOT do, is see all these cool things the engine can do, and try to use them all in the game, forgetting it's not about the new toy, but about a Thief game. Let the story and atmosphere rule the day, and build the world with more length and breadth and depth than we've seen, and with more detail to admire while exploring the world, and bring back the awe of just wanting to soak in it.

I surely agree with that, at least, within limits. That is, I don't think it's best to start thinking by means of the engine. I think it would be a lot more fun to think of the engine as posing problems for translation of a narrative into the engine, leading to ingenious solutions by individual Makers; or, as frustrated resort, reconstruction of the narrative. I can't think of a more rewarding, and creative, environment than that.

The alternative tends to make the player look like a rat with brain electrodes, satisfying himself by compulsively pressing the right button.

One suggestion occurred to me, from idle musing, is to hire a writer, or writers, outside of gaming. Startlingly, there's an awful lot of wit and sharp work being done in comic books right now. To my mind, that work can be a lot freer and more accurate than what is being done in any parallel medium, perhaps one of the most ironic transitions in the world.

[jtr7]

Actually I wasn't speaking of the narrative, but the tendency for people in general, and not just creative persons, to get a new toy and play with it to the point no one else around them finds it fun. Build a solid world, and don't hide it from view with HUD and excessive bloom and bright streaks and swooshes for every player movement. Turn off the glowing and sparkling things that call to the player, etc. New toys, new effects, and many of them are put into every single mission to a ridiculous level. Go back to subtlety, restrain thyselves, devs.

It seems they may have hired outside gaming for Deus Ex 3, but I haven't researched the writers they've brought in who've worked on films and written books. There are some talented writers that know how to mimic another voice and if they could sink their teeth into the old dialogue and do Laura Baldwin justice, I will be deeply grateful for it.

[ScottyTheEngineer]

Hey, it's my first post here ;-)

What about customizable difficulty settings? Examples and possible options:

- blackjacked enemies wake up (off/ after several minutes / shortly after)

- show light gem (on/off): imagine playing without the light gem! You would pick your hiding places more carefully!

- enemies can use ladders (off/on) * well maybe burricks and zombies should not be able to use ladders at all, but this feature would reduce some "save havens" and make the game more realistic and Garrett more vulnerable

- enemies are alarmed by Garrett's shadow (off/on) * yeah I know, this would require a 3d model of Garrett's body with all the advantages and issues

- visibility of loot (easy: loot is shiny like in TS / hard: loot is not shiny / expert: loot is only highlighted after looking at it for a brief period of time)

[Tutonic Drone]

I was joking about the whole pimping of the cloak, although I would like to see the tip of the cloak when I look down. I like fps where you can see your feet. Also I don't see how a circulatory system comes into play here. Besides I don't like the syringe part myself I just want some one use melee item that takes out the undead.

Also I had a another idea.
Kidnapping mission: Yeah not Garret's usual cup of tea but if he is kidnapping for info instead of money it would make more sense

[jtr7]

There's an unused concept that made it into the TMA manual where Garrett kidnapped Truart and some cloaked figures are torturing him for information, but the concept morphed into Cavador's kidnapping and spilling his guts to the pagans.




It would be interesting to see Garrett do the intimidating, to see him do what he planned to do in Blackmail, since we know it's in him to do it.