YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

[Myth]

Nightvision would ruin the game. In the first two games one could always cheat and up the gamma with the "+" button, effectively getting a nightvision result, and i didn't like this at all. If it were implemented as a full fledged feature i'd hate it even more.

[Hypevosa]

I'm going to add nightvision, and anything that makes you completely undetectable (even to touch) If I have an invisibility potion and I touch someone I want them to react and swing towards wherever they were hit (thinking it was a giant rat or something.

[clock12345]

freedom opinion: if u dont want to do mission then ur not going to the mission mark, you will be free unless you will go the the mission mark.


hud idea: hud should not be included in mission's hud should be included only when your free in the city.

horse and other animals: i think there should be horses and other new animals to ride on.

hud: hud is a little map that you got it on the side of the screen its like fast map

what do you think?

[huzi73]

Horses, maybe.Other animals? what exactly are you implying? Burricks maybe? :lol
:

[Hamadriyad]

Freedom: If they do it right, I have no problem with it.
Horses and others:There is a thread for this already.Horse riding would be nice.(again, If they do it right)
Hud:sorry but I don't understand. can you explain, what is hud?

[jtr7]

Less Head's Up Display. Less screen clutter. Less reliance on the same old gimmicks from other games. No riding horses or other animals (let the devs make a thief game first, before adding unnecessary time-consuming stuff). No mission marker, because you should start on a mission, and end when the mission is done, but the world is big enough to wander around and take your time anyway. Garrett's always in danger of getting caught while in The City, so he still needs to be able to use his tools and skills just to stay safe.

[Myth]

Less Head's Up Display. Less screen clutter. Less reliance on the same old gimmicks from other games. No riding horses or other animals (let the devs make a thief game first, before adding unnecessary time-consuming stuff). No mission marker, because you should start on a mission, and end when the mission is done, but the world is big enough to wander around and take your time anyway. Garrett's always in danger of getting caught while in The City, so he still needs to be able to use his tools and skills just to stay safe.

quoted for truth.

[OpalDragon75]

As I look over other posts and I see a lot of super-weapons requested. For the most part I say combine for that past 3 games with the arrows and items but give the player and inventory system. Try not to make it so fixed thought, have it go on a balance system were the more you take the more difficult certain task become. For example a quivers holds 30 arrows each, the player can choose to take 1 or up to 5; now if they take 1 or 2 quivers they don’t make as much noise and don’t stand out enough to draw the guards/polices attention and have more freedom to move about the city. If they take more like 4 or 5 then the player can do heavier mission but have to avoid the law or risk deal with the guards/officers.

At the risk of sound queer-ish: Outfits + disguises. Better thief gear make you look more like a thief, therefore player has a harder time pick-pocking mainly due to the fact that you look like a shady person and NPC will stay a distance from you and watch you even more decreasing your stealthness. Dressing as other classes increase the player ability to move about the city plus can even get greater access to shops and information but restrict the gear the player can take. Hopeful this will lead to mission that require the player to dress up as a noble or merchant in order to complete missions. Also things like soft shoe make the player stealthier but make some terrain is impossible to pass through.

Bags and packs, a huge penalty item but can be used as extra storage for longer mission and the player drop them as stash/supplies during the mission. With this I would put more of the penalty on encumbrance but if the player takes more than two, almost guarantee that they’ll get stop and searched by the local laws enforcement. Maybe a penalty that multiplies with each pack 20% chance with 1, 60% with 2 packs, and 180% chance with 3 packs/bags. Whatever you decide will be fine. Basically also make sure that the more you take the less you’re able to do; climbing, swimming, jumping, and the player are just less stealthy.

[hellwalker]

we hate you
nothing personal

[OpalDragon75]

LOL! oh well! I guess can't be helped.

just wished I didn't make so many grammar errors

[CaptainObvious]

How warm and welcoming this community is.

[OpalDragon75]

In a way I don't see it as that bad. Possible mean that my idea has potential. I thought it would open the game up to challenges, like only play the game using [Restriction statement]. or have a clown custume that can be unlock for the next game and be challenge to playing the whole game in only the clown costume. then peope can record it and post it on youtube!

[hellwalker]

cold are our hearts, like the daggers we stab in our foes.

I'm not good at cheesy phrases

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by hellwalker

cold are our hearts, like the daggers we stab in our foes.

I'm not good at cheesy phrases

"Only the dead have seen the end of war... and before I'm through, the afterlife is gonna get a lot more crowded with newtaffers."

[Twilight_Crusader]

I love the Thief series, I've played them all (a long time ago) and am excited to see another iteration being developed. I see there is a lot of discussion on how it should turn out and I thought I'd post my opinion.

First of all, you have to remember what it is about the Thief games that made them so fun to play. The hook for the game was the ability to hide in the shadows, stealthily maneuver your way into a mansion while shooting out torches, and steal valuables - All set in the times of swords, bows, and arrows. Getting caught meant either death, or a daring escape to try and hide. There was a certain feeling of fear and nervousness that made you move slowly and cautiously. Listening to the guards complain or ramble on drunkenly was hilarious. Figuring out the best way to get to where you were going was strategic.

I hope Thief 4 still brings about these feelings from the past games. Of course, there are gameplay mechanics that need to be changed(I'm not gonna start another dicussion about whether TDS was horrible or not). But its the experience you get from the game that needs to be the same from the previous games. I want to be scared sometimes; i want to laugh other times. I want to feel like a bada$$ thief that takes what he wants and seems like a ghost to those around him. I want the game to feel like a journey, an adventure with a story that's well written.

But that doesn't mean it has to be an exact remake of the previous games. Look at Assassin's Creed. You can't deny that similarity's between it and Thief games. In Thief your a guy on a solo mission to steal something, hiding in the shadows. In AC, you another guy on a solo mission trying to kill someone, hiding in the crowd. But Assassin's Creed 2 is changing the story up, set in a new time with a new character, and building on the idea of playing as a stealthy assassin rather than a brute force warrior. Thief 4 could do the same thing. Not necessarily change the character (Garret is cool), but make the player feel like a sneaky thief that avoids confrontation as much as possible.

So I think that they need to refine the gameplay mechanics, cut out parts of TDS that were crappy (still trying avoid posting about that debate), come up with a immersing story, and reinforce the atmosphere that was created when thief was at its best.

[deathshadow]

I'm seeing a lot of stuff on the various threads that frankly, I think would flush any sequel right down the crapper.

Think there's some new revolutionary gameplay changing feature? Don't.

Think you need to add dozens of new weapons we've never seen before? Don't. (I smell pen and paper RPG munchkins)

Think you need a new faction or to place it in some different city/world? Don't.

Think you need a third person perspective option for console ? Don't.

Think players need 'aids' to find the items they can from from all the way across the room? Don't.

Think you need jerky movement for 'body awareness'? Don't.

In other words, don't make the mistakes most every sequel, or WORSE 're-imagining' makes with a franchise.

Though if you think retconning TDS so it never existed is a good idea, I'm right there with you.

As I said elsewhere, you want to make fans like me happy, just give us the dark engine's gameplay with updated graphics, I don't care if you fix the AI, rendering oddities, etc. There's a reason a DECADE later fans are still releasing quality levels and even full on multi-level campaigns for the original two games... many of which have better gameplay and storytelling than most commercial games - some of which offer MORE gameplay as well. Broken Triad, A Night in Rocksburg, Elizabeth Bathory, COSAS, T2X - LEARN SOMETHING FROM THESE.

I'm seeing a lot of people posting what they think are 'good ideas' for changes - changes of that nature are what shtupped TDS right up the tuchas, don't go down that bekapta path.

[CaptainObvious]

I don't want new things! I want shiny old things!

[ToMegaTherion]

Yes, let us again return to the wonderful days where guards can walk right into thieves without seeing them.

[Acorn]

You just want to play old thief and fan missions.
This is not one big fan mission, man.

I agree changes should be minimal. Some of the new experiments didn't work. There don't need to be a lot of new weapons, and the rope arrow and larger mission areas should return, but some things can change for the better.

Also a new faction could work if its based on whats already known.
Un-used or under used groups: The Mages faction. The Lords faction, citizens, the thieves, Guard officers. More horrible things can be found in the precursor areas, or something left behind by Karas.

And the pagans need some new power beings to interact with. And an elders council.

And I want to hear more lore/stories about the builder :P

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Acorn

You just want to play old thief and fan missions.
This is not one big fan mission, man.

Saying that to someone who clearly wants the game that TDS was promised to be but never was, is really getting old. Please come up with a new and better comeback before you say something like that again.

[ToMegaTherion]

I don't believe Deadly Shadows was ever promised to be "Dark Engine with better graphics", but maybe I missed that promise.

Edit: I do think you're right in that the stock "you just want to play the old games" isn't usually a very good counter to many of the posts it's used against. But on this thread it actually is.

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by ToMegaTherion

I don't believe Deadly Shadows was ever promised to be "Dark Engine with better graphics", but maybe I missed that promise.

I think that the reason why most people who were dissapointed by TDS, were dissapointed because some of the main things, not all of them that they expected were not there.

The basic things that people would have wanted:
-Nothing good that was in the earlier games taken away, but many new good things added.
-New engine with less bugs and the ability to create even bigger and better fan missions.
-Not too much change, but rather some adaptation to the present.

All of these 3 were executed poorly. That's why people don't like TDS.

[ToMegaTherion]

Sure, I see that, and there's been plenty of good discussion in the "what was wrong with Deadly Shadows" thread.

But deathshadow has specifically stated he would be quite satisfied if the only improvements made on the original games would be better graphics. I think the criticism of this that had been used in this thread is quite reasonable here.

I think if we are being realistic we can't ask for things to be exactly the same as before, it's a different team with a different engine, they're not going to be able to do everything right, even if they try, but they will also be able to do some things better. So I do think that the expectation "everything good from before, but with some improvements" has little chance of being satisfied, so it'd be better not to hold on to that hope.

[Flashart]

What people wanted was a city hub and rooftops, and rope arrows. They got the hub and roofs, then suddenly shouted "Oh, we didn't mean like THAT!"
Then the devs had to bend over backwards to get some kind of vertical movement when Rope arrows proved unwieldly It's not a criticism, but the devs tried to please the fans.
T4 won't/can't be T1/T2, how could it possibly be? If you're holding any hope out for that then it'll break your heart.
What nobody foresaw was the impact of things like the loading zones, and even loot glint. There will be new stuff in T4 and new ways of doing old stuff. I like T2 as much as anyone else, but (I'm guessing) the dev's will start from a blank piece of paper.
If they give Garrett the "Pork Chop of Mordor", whose very scent causes enemies to perform a brief but violent Charleston, then it's fine with me because I won't have to use it, but if the game is hamstrung by it's engine then it's a different matter.

[jtr7]

Originally Posted by CaptainExaggerator

I don't want new things! I want shiny old things!

SHADDUP!