YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

[pwyll]

I like Thief 3. In fact it is my favorite game. Thief 2 is great indeed but the dynamic shadows and detailed objects in Thief 3 are something that I adore. Thief 1 is good but I didn't like the cave levels and running from monsters. I really enjoy staying in shadows and observing unsuspecting humans. I feel like some dark god of shadows. Total ghost. I like beating the game without killing or making unconscious people. I like sneaking, crawling, stalking. To be unsuspected and undetected.

I would like dogs in this game. Dogs which can smell you. It will be challenging.

I would like if the player could change its point of view - first or third person. Thief 3 in this case was awesome because I prefer 3rd person view but in some cases 1st was preferable.

Know that not only the good graphics make one game a piece of art. The gameplay and the storyline are so important! That's why Thief is my favorite game, not Assassin's Creed.

Good luck, Eidos! I believe you will make a real masterpiece in the game industry. I hope you do, I pray you do.

[Gorephazer]

The achievements thing is a good idea. It would be nice if ghosting was actually implemented into the game so that you would have somewhat of an official scorecard to show off.

[Barsavian]

Thief 2 is best.

Sprawling non linear maps of Thief 2 are a must along with the wonderfully done story movies between levels.

The only thing that would really be needed is an ability to climg up/down buildings. Anything more or less would be a hinderance.

[geekytom]

You have to be careful with the "open worldness" otherwise you could just end up with Assassin's Creed.

Keep it first person and keep each level story driven. I want atmosphere, story, tension and fear.

Thief is still one of the only games to have truly scared me.

[geekytom]

Improved combat that is engaging with ability to make guards look like fools while escaping like pulling their shirt over their head or knocking their helmets down so they cannot see etc

Love that idea!

[acridrose]

Originally Posted by geekytom

You have to be careful with the "open worldness" otherwise you could just end up with Assassin's Creed.

Keep it first person and keep each level story driven. I want atmosphere, story, tension and fear.

Thief is still one of the only games to have truly scared me.

100% agreed

Originally Posted by Velecost

A journal that keeps track of sidequests, movies, story, characters, items, enemies
Perhaps a morality system based on decisions

Your ideas made me throw up... this isn't pokémon .

[Durinda D'Bry]

Originally Posted by pwyll

I like Thief 3. In fact it is my favorite game. Thief 2 is great indeed but...

I think many fans (almost all) will disagree with you. Thief 3 was good with its plot and many game moments - it is still great Thief game in sense - but too bad from technical characteristic point of view - too slow even for modern for that time hardware and buggy game engine, limited level space, drunky camera movement, not finished ideas in design etc. Even it uses modern technologies and better graphics it was failed in implementation.

[Thievingtaffer]

Thief 3 was a quality game, but it was certainly not up to par with the first two. The game felt unfinished, and everything was just awkward. But as the whole, it was a fine addition to aspects like Lore (methinks) and it got the Thief brand out there a little bit more. I enjoyed it, and I think it's metascore of 85 is about right. That said, I hope the new game returns to the direction of the first two.

[TheJoe]

We didn't like Thief 3?

[Larington]

Originally Posted by mister_riz

1. Where have you heard this?

2. They'd be crazy not to have Garrett as the lead, absolutely crazy.

The ending of Thief 3 (Link to vid below) kind of implies that the torch is going to get passed down to a successor. As long as the characterisations that made Garrett pass on to the new character, I won't mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQPh43xvnI8

Still, early days yet, she could just end up being an incidental character, or she gets arrogant and steals something she shouldn't and Garrett (As player) ends up having to track her down.

Could go either way.

[DarthEnder]

^ I agree with that. The tiny levels cut up by load screens and the not great attempt to make a persistent city overworld...no.

Essentially, the release of Assassin't Creed had me very exited about the possibilities of a new Thief game, but also a little worried.

The huge, sprawling cities with no loading screens had my quite excited at the prospect of levels built around entire estates with no loading screens that actually looked fantastic. But on the flipside, it made me worried that a Thief 4 would take the worst part of Thief 3, the open city, and try and do it again. Sure, a big open world city would not suck as bad done in the AC style than the T3 style, but it's just nothing I want, or need from a Thief game. I much prefer missions each taking place in their own levels, but I want those levels to be huge, with lots to explore, something T3 couldn't really do.

Other things about AC that I think would work great in Thief are the obvious awesome running and climbing around the world, and the combat.

I shouldn't have to explain how awesome the climbing up window sills and jumping over rooftops would rock in Thief.

Now, granted, AC's combat where you fight 10 guys at a time wouldn't do for Thief, but that's not because of the combat system(which is great), it's because of the AI. Fighting a guy and deflecting and counterattacking based on rythm works great. And when you go up against a squad of guys, they form up in a big circle around you? Makes sense so far. Unfortunately they then do the inexplicable thing of attacking you one at a time, which makes taking on groups trivial. They need to make it so that when one bad guy takes a swing and you deflect the attack and go in for the counter, the guy standing behind you lunges in and stabs you in the back. Essentially making it so that combat against one guard is easy, two is pretty hard, and 3 or more becomes almost impossible.

Of course then there's the way AC's gameplay works the worst for Thief, and it happens to be the most important aspect, the Stealth. AC's "hide in crowds in broad daylight" approach is the exact opposite kind of stealth to the "hide in the shadows" approach of Thief, and I shouldn't have to tell you which one is infinitely better.

[TazmanianD]

Originally Posted by Thievingtaffer

Thief 3 was a quality game, but it was certainly not up to par with the first two. The game felt unfinished, and everything was just awkward. But as the whole, it was a fine addition to aspects like Lore (methinks) and it got the Thief brand out there a little bit more. I enjoyed it, and I think it's metascore of 85 is about right. That said, I hope the new game returns to the direction of the first two.

I'll agree with that. Thief 3 was a true Thief game if not quite as good as the original two. The game was pretty whacked out-of-the-box for the PC but fortunately was tweakable enough to get passed a lot of annoying "features" (*cough* loot glint) and a bad UI.

[FenPhoenix]

I love the original games (Thief 2 is my favourite), and I also think that Thief 3 did get a lot of things right. Really, I'm open to new stuff as long as it keeps to the spirit of Thief, both in a style/story sense and also a gameplay sense. Personally I feel that it's vitally important to keep the proper balance of realism and fun. Sounds obvious but lots of games these days have absurd features that are in there to be "cool" or to show how closely they can imitate reality, but are no fun at all. I know some people might disagree with me on this, but to me Thief is not about lockpicking or loot collecting or all the little things a thief does, but it's about the broader experience of playing the game, going through the story, exploring, being immersed in a fantastic world. The little things are of course important to the experience - but for example, to click on loot and have it disappear into my bag of infinite weightless holding, or to pick a lock by just standing there and holding a button, those things are enough to make me believe that I really am a thief doing those things, yet they are simplified enough so that they don't intrude into the experience. Awesomely, Thief 3 didn't really succumb to most of that stuff (the lockpicking was more involved but it was alright; not sure if I would want to go any further with it to be honest though) - but just saying. Any new features need to be considered on the merits of whether they're genuinely fun and fit with the experience, and NOT simply whether they're technically impressive or realistic.

I actually kind of see some potential in some of the stuff in Thief 3. I think a free-roaming city could work, but it would absolutely have to be done right and with loving care and focus. I also think the idea of actually going to your fences was kinda neat. Dunno what you could do with that, but just throwin' things out there :P

Anyway. Thief 4 needs a great story, immersive setting, rope arrows, and swimmable water. :P Other than that, just keep on with the funny AI convos and remarks, get Stephen Russell back and you'll be alright

Oh, one more thing, about achievements. Could somebody explain more precisely what sort of thing they would be? The only thought going round and round in my head right now is "SUPER BLACKJACKALATOR! 100 POINTS"

[Necros]

Originally Posted by VIKTORIA

Which of the Thief games was your favourite, which one was your least favourite - and why?

My favourite was Thief 2 because it was an upgrade from Thief 1 in every way, also it had the Life of the Party mission. Least favourite? I can't say that to either T1 or T3, I liked both of them very much.

Originally Posted by VIKTORIA

What key feature(s) did you liked best about the game series?

Sneaking in the shadows, the awesome story and dialogue, the cutscenes and the mission briefings, Stephen Russell and the other voice actors, lockpicking, pickpocketing, missions on the rooftops, smart - creative level design, the atmosphere, mainly human enemies, the 3 factions, the fences, non-lethal gameplay, don't hate me but the switching between 1st and 3rd person was good too in T3 (but only if 1st person is the default and you are never forced to switch - no context sensitive stuff and leaning is a must too). And I'm sure I've missed a few more things.

Originally Posted by VIKTORIA

Do you hope that T4 will retain these elements, or do you prefer to see something totally new?

Yes, bring back to classical gameplay and setting, no need to change everything. If EM wants to do that, call the game something else.

[TSFroggy]

Thief 2 was the best game in the series. Much more "Thief-y" than the other two, much darker, grittier and a hundred times more immersive.

Get that straight now, Eidos Montreal. IMMERSIVE. That is the key word for this franchise. Thief 3, though I don't know why, took it straight out of there.

[Barsavian]

Originally Posted by FenPhoenix

1. Thief is not about the little things a thief does

2.going through the story, exploring, being immersed in a fantastic world.


3.Anyway. Thief 4 needs a great story, immersive setting, rope arrows, and swimmable water. :P Other than that, just keep on with the funny AI convos and remarks, get Stephen Russell back and you'll be alright

1.dohohoho

2. this is good

3.yes

[Thievingtaffer]

I would say Thief: The Dark Project but I liked the extra missions in Thief Gold so much that I'll have to say Thief Gold is my favorite. I really like the level design: the vastness, and the atmosphere. Something about those early missions conveys to me a sense of crisp air, and cool temperatures. I 'feel' those early missions more than anything else. But don't forget the better levels of Deadly Shadows either. Overlook Manse and The Museum had fine level design as well. However, I'd love to see Thief 4 return to it's roots and go for the older style of play (get rid of useless 3rd person). I can't really describe the allure of the first 2 games, but they just 'feel' to me, better.

[Grimmy]

I agree that Thief 2 was the best one, the introduction to the new era of metal, with all its new NPC's suchs as mechanical beasts and watchers and this steampunk sort of feeling was really cool, I preferred this than Thief 1 ghosts/haunts/apes and stuff much more. Of course there should be a Pagan fraction mentioned in the new plot, but without all the old 'wild forest' stuff, more like Constantine's mansion feel, if you get me? Some sort of creepiness with ambient lightning and music.

[chagnampra]

I would have to say that Thief: The Dark Project was my favourite Thief game. It was so rich in atmosphere and tension. It was also laced with HORROR, something which I feel is an intrinsic part of the Thief universe. The level 'Return to the Haunted Cathedral' is a prime example of this. Also, 'Break from Cragscleft Prison' is similarly incredible. There are too many good moments in too many great levels to pick a favourite, but these are two of mine.



http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2...dcathedral.jpg

xx

[UrUkUs]

my absolutely wish is, that Eric Brosius makes ambient's for T4! Just can't get outta my head "The Cradle" ambient, it's so awesome!

[Thievingtaffer]

Originally Posted by UrUkUs

my absolutely wish is, that Eric Brosius makes ambient's for T4! Just can't get outta my head "The Cradle" ambient, it's so awesome!

Nothing beats Overlook Manse (Or Seaside Manor as it was called before they officially released it). That is amazing ambiance.

[Vlad27145]

Thief 2 as the best in the series. It had an artsy vibe to it still far superior to most games, while also being extremely fun to play. I personally want more of that.

[UrUkUs]

Originally Posted by Thievingtaffer

Nothing beats Overlook Manse (Or Seaside Manor as it was called before they officially released it). That is amazing ambiance.

agreed, this track is awesome too, but Cradles ambient is UNREAL, makes u think you are somewhere in another dimension lol

[acridrose]

Originally Posted by Thievingtaffer

Nothing beats Overlook Manse (Or Seaside Manor as it was called before they officially released it). That is amazing ambiance.

Agreed, but you can't beat that original ambiance from thief 1 that all the old-skoolers love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUx0r...eature=related - 0:09+, that build up of synth is mesmerising!

[chagnampra]

Originally Posted by acridrose

Agreed, but you can't beat that original ambiance from thief 1 that all the old-skoolers love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUx0r...eature=related - 0:09+, that build up of synth is mesmerising!

Agreed - lulls you into some sort of weird intensity


Awesome