YOUR THOUGHTS & WISHES & SUGGESTIONS for T4 - General Discussion

[GmanPro]

I don't have a fast internet connection so STEAM only prevents me from playing my games which I paid for. It doesn't do anything positive for me

[bobby27]

Originally Posted by GmanPro

I don't have a fast internet connection so STEAM only prevents me from playing my games which I paid for. It doesn't do anything positive for me

You are in the minority, and I never said anything about it being steam only..

[Ice1019]

I don't think the overall idea of an open City was so much of a bad idea, but it was implemented disastrously. The sections were so small that you could wait 1 minute for the level to load, run across a level in 15 seconds, and then spend another minute looking at a loading screen. Also, getting caught and leaving a section meant that as soon as you returned, no matter how long it had been, all the guards who found you would be right there at the entrance the next time you came by.

I think the smarter AI is a must, as is Garrett's ability to disappear in shadow.

I would ask EM to hesitate before wanting to implement too many modern stealth game components. What separates Garrett from all the other guys is that he isn't a ninja or a soldier. Obviously, he's in it for the money. Murder to him is a vulgarity, beneath masters like him. If you kill a guard, it's because [I]you[I] want it simpler for [I]you[/I.

There's a great article at Four Fat Chicks called Stealing Beauty that's all about how Thief is in many ways the most and least violent game out there. I never quite managed it, but there are guys (probably on this forum) that can beat Thief without even using the blackjack. If you use violence, it's because you wanted to use it, not because the game made you.

I think more than FPS versus TPS or open City vs. missions, or even Garrett vs. someone new, it's this kind of open-ended gameplay that makes Thief, Thief. TDS screwed the pooch because they tried to make the gameplay more like Splinter Cell on an engine that couldn't handle the demands put upon it by the devs. It played on rails, and we all said boo.

[Ice1019]

I think Thief 3 had a few more problems than that, the missions (aside from the Cradle) weren't as fun to me. They were just smaller and not as open-ended. I'm not a big fan of the grave-robbing from the Dark Project either, The Metal Age to me is where EM should really be looking.

I think the positives from Thief: DS are pretty spot on, the audio was great (Eric Brosius working his magic) and the atmosphere was pretty cool, drawing a little more from the Dark Project than anything else. Keep bringing the analysis, bobby27. This is good stuff for the devs to read.

[samcoarse]

Not sure if this is an echo of previous repliers or not but here is an idea I posted on the TTLG forums after I found out about the new endeavor of eidos.

"I'd prefer it if this time they stuck more with the fundamentals of thieving. I'm a huge fan of Thief 2 and when T3 came out there was the noticeable aftershocks of gaming perfection still echoing from its ancestor in game play, storyline somewhat, themes etc, but there was something a bit off about it (granted I played the xbox version and you could see rune's radiating through walls and it was graphically a mess). I'm surprised however, to read one person claiming that the supernatural isn't something that should be debated when creating this new installment.

One thing that threw me in T2 was the section with the apemen?? It came pretty much out of the blue, I have an open mind and when I started playing I was entrapped in the mystique of sneaking through these mechanic hybrid medieval manors, chapels, the cobblestone electricity lighted streets, art galleries, the police station!! The Gaul! The combination was pristine and then the apemen section demanded to be endured. I can understand it was a plot line but I could have accepted them easier without the sudden fantasy turn of events in the game, perhaps with another, more human species?

T3 had the same issue with what I thought were rather crude characters. the humanoid animals really broke the suspense and turned it into a less immersing experience. Some of you may disagree entirely, I can understand that's your concept of a fine gaming experience but I think it took away from the actual core ideology of being a highly cynical, thumb biting, pre-meditated thief that T2 portrayed so well. Perhaps veiling a fact that there were limits on what the engine or imagination could put forward and replacing it with a mild storyline.

I can handle the supernatural in small quantities like the ghostly knight patrolling the catacombs in T2 but too much like the abandoned orphanage that also used to be a mental institute in T3 brought on my usual cynical mind-frame. So yea, I personally wouldn't mind a divorce from the fantasy for a turn towards the specifics of thieving, lockpicks, climbables, pickpocketing and stealth and towards a certain realism in T4.

Everyone has something valuable on them, every house has its stash. I'm sure if you delve deep enough you might even find a storyline.. "

Hope this proves helpful.

[Contradictio In Terminis]

My thoughts for THI4F.

I think it's idiotic that you can't knock them out if they are alerted to you. People get knocked out in fights all the time and they are most certainly alerted to the presence of the one who just KO'd them. Granted, I feel that if you are face to face with the person that it should not knock them out, however, if you come up behind them while they are still searching it should knock them out. I also think that a head shot with an arrow should be the end of it, even if they are alerted to your presence...I don't care how on guard you are, if you get shot in the face with a broadhead arrow, you are going down...bottom line. Those points would add to the realism. Also, with the flashbombs, I do not think that attacking them after tossing one should snap them out of it, in fact, if you flashbomb someone you should be able to then blackjack them as they would not be able to see you trying to hit them.

When a guard or someone flat out spots you I don't think that they should ever stop looking for you...

Doors, they should swing and act like real doors. this would make the game much harder and would add to your reliance on stealth to play.

Health...when your health is running low I think that you should move slower, the screen should darken and the sound should become dampened. I don't really see this happening because it would make gameplay too "difficult" for most people and so the sales would drop...

Remember in the first two games when you would beat on things with your blackjack to make a guard investigate so that you could sneak past him? they should bring this back...a couple of times while playing DS I tried this, of course it didn't work.

You should be able to grab people and walk around with them like in Splinter Cell.

The Trickster should definitely show up again, or at least have mention...remember how he was taunting you in the last part of DS?

I'll think of more later.

[Flashart]

Keeping things broad I'd like.

The ability to "commando crawl", you'd practically be able to sniff Benny's socks as you slid softly by.

What would be great is a city of "Oblivion/ Fallout" proportions, as much exploration as possible.

More rooftops.

An editor, if it were a choice between this or co-op it'd be an editor everytime. Some of the FM's are truly inspired.

Rope Arrows (Of course)

One absolute scary level (I do think "The Cradle" is Thief's "Smoke On The Water" or "Stairway To Heaven".

It'd be nice if somewhere there could be a nod to the genius that is Terry Pratchett. He's a fellow Taffer, and hasn't had the best of times lately. I reckon he'd love a hidden away mention.

[Corvin25]

Thief 1 and 2 were wonderful.... please use these two masterpieces as an example of the gameplay we want, Eidos.

And no matter what, don't "dumb down" the game for console players. TDS was simply too easy.

[xxcoy]

There was a survey some time ago in the German Eidos Forums concerning the wishes of German fans for a possible Thief 4. Translated it (as far as I was able to).

Mostly, people wished for a thrilling atmospheric story and the typical 'Thief atmosphere' as in Thief 1 and 2 (87%). Apart from that most of them wanted to play Garrett again as main character. Most of them disliked the small levels in TDS and the transitions inbetween most of them. They preferred large levels as 'Partytime' or 'Assassins'. (both 82%)

A cleverly (re)acting AI, some extraordinary level types (f.e. 'Shalebridge Cradle' or 'Framed' on expert) and factions as used in TDS (as well as Downwinders and mages from Thief Gold) were important to most, too. (75-65%)

Few wished for extraordinary opponents as robots or monsters or for rpg elements, even less for a great graphic design, especially not if it would lead to smaller levels again. (25-30%)

Only 8% would like Thief to take place in a modern era.

[Corvin25]

The people who are interested in Thief 4 will not be the same ones who play Halo on Xbox Live. Just remember that.

... I would like to see some truly artistic settings though. Pagan and Hammerite areas have potential for truly dark "oil painting" environments.

[Viktoria]

This is a fab thread, keep sharing your thoughts and wishes for T4.

[Mikes170]

The first games where fantastic, they was new and so Atmospheric. You are so lucky to have made garret he is legendary and every time he speaks he just makes me smirk, But there was nothing better than waiting for dark turn the lights down low and load up the game, Atmosphere, Sly, humor, fear, and really intelliegent A.I your laughing, Open maps would be good if you can plan your routes, You can get to know your city like the back of your hand, work out which is the best way to go. rich big old houses with lots of loot, or a slummy area? but rooftops was always good!?

[tender19]

I have some additional wishes.

- Thief 3 had these swirling purple fog / cloud effects... please, don't do this in Thief 4. Thief is industrial, artistic, and realistic in many ways, fog effects fit into dream-like fantasy worlds.

- Loved the backward-speaking Victoria effect for the sound of ghosts, I'd welcome that again.

[Maleficen]

I hope u will do ur best to make this a very long, non restricted, with lots to steal and break in, kill hide, with lovely bows and arrows, blades, talents, power buffs, cloths etc etc etc game

I just loved thief 3, (but didnt like the end game pittyfully) BUT it was a lil restricted.

Should be able to break in everywhere and steal, lots of secret places

Liked the engine, good graphics

Im waiting impatiently for it arrival !.................

Make it non linear, all freedoms, grooovy fights and ambushes, make it perfect !!!!!!!!!

[Contradictio In Terminis]

Originally Posted by Flashart

One absolute scary level (I do think "The Cradle" is Thief's "Smoke On The Water" or "Stairway To Heaven".

Amen to that! I actually noticed that I started playing the game more durning that day when I was on that level back when the game first came out!

[Henke123]

I hope there will be at least one big mansion/castle with lots of secret passages, traps, puzzles and hidden vaults to plunder

I really love that kind of stuff

[TazmanianD]

Originally Posted by xxcoy

Few wished for extraordinary opponents as robots or monsters or for rpg elements, even less for a great graphic design, especially not if it would lead to smaller levels again.

That is an interesting survey. Perhaps someone should put a copy up here.

I'm a bit confused about the graphic design though. Why would people not want that? I guess it depends what that means to you.

I wouldn't want Thief to be an RPG, but I liked what I consider some minor RPG elements that were in TDS. I liked the fact that Garrett gained a few new abilities over the course of the game and I liked that you had a persistent city with a persistent personal inventory with the ability to visit various shops to buy things.

I did like having the robots and cameras since they really added to the Steampunk atmosphere and I liked that there are some fantastical elements in Thief with some monsters, but I think Thief 1 over did it. I'd like at least a little bit of those.

[DoomyDoomyDoomDoom]

Dunno if this has been said...

I'd like to be able to PLACE OBJECTS DOWN. It sucked big time that I would pick something up and be unable to place it back. All I could do is toss it, which would make a loud thud and alert nearby people. So yeah, I hope I can quietly put objects down in Thiaf.

If this was already in the game then I damn sure didn't know about it.

[Tucrila]

I am die hard fan of Thief series, well in fact i´m fan of Thief 1 and 2.
I dont even consider Thief 3 a Thief game because honestly they screwed up pretty badly on that one!

I think that what they did to Thief 3 was horrible! I want Looking glass studios back!

There are some things that you just cant take out of thief, here goes a few of them:

- Thief is a first person game, period! Putting the game on third person only makes it looks like another dumb third person game, which is exactly what THIEF 3 is!

- You cant just take out the rope arrows, c'mmon!
- Thief is a PC game, not an XBOX game or a PS3 game.
- What in the hell happened to the cutscenes?? The cutscenes were beautiful and immersive in Thief 1 and 2. Please put back this classic cutscenes! I honestly dont know what the people who developed Thief 3 were thinking

- Thief is always about a good and dark history! Not a lame one like Thief 3!

I think these are a few things that needs to be reminded for this new THIEF game, please please dont make it like THIEF 3!!

Thief games provide us a unique enviroment and it is such an original game, please dont screw it up like the people in ION STORM did it, it broke my heart

I hope the developers from Thief 4 will be able to make an excellent job and this new game will live up to the THIEF LEGEND!

[GmanPro]

^^ I'm with you. You know, I had thought previously that Thief is a very specific type of game. And that developing a new one would be pretty straight forward, but some of the posts I've read on this forum really have me worried. I hope the devs know what they are doing.

[acridrose]

move to:
Wishlist/Thoughts/Suggestions for T4 (general discussion)
or another appropriate thread, thanks

And Tucrila,
Eidos Mont have no plans to 'screw up' in their project you will be pleased to know - the T3 non-ingame cutscenes were not terrible, this has already been discussed. And so have your other points, hehe. Oh well.

[Tucrila]

Originally Posted by acridrose

move to:
Wishlist/Thoughts/Suggestions for T4 (general discussion)
or another appropriate thread, thanks

And Tucrila,
Eidos Mont have no plans to 'screw up' in their project you will be pleased to know - the T3 non-ingame cutscenes were not terrible, this has already been discussed. And so have your other points, hehe. Oh well.

Do you even know what i am talking about? I´m referring to the cutscenes between the missions in which Garret gives us all the briefing about the next mission. If you are not aware of that, those cutscenes were replaced by plain text only in Thief 3, and it really sucked!!

Oh and Eidos montreal really screwed up with Far cry 2 so why wouldn't they do so in this game

[DoomyDoomyDoomDoom]

Amazing how all the fans pretty much want the same thing. It's ridiculous that they actually managed to screw up that third one so as to make every original fan angry. I'd like to think Eidos Montreal would have a cake easy time making Thief 4 seeing as everybody agrees on quite a lot of what they want. And just looking at how much people hated TDS should let them know what NOT to do.

Hell hath no fury like a Thief fan scorned.

[Pipinowns]

It's ridiculous how you guys call yourselves fans, yet all you do is cry on these forums about how much you hate Thief 3 and how you want Thief 4 to be like the first two.

[Subjective Effect]

No, that's one of the more sensible whines tbh. T1 and 2 are superior games so whats the beef?