Inventory

[LatwPIAT]

Originally Posted by Romeo

That system would be gnarlier (Yes I said it) if we had armors in the game.

<spit take>

Say, for a game like Diablo, it would be sheer brilliance. You should work for Blizzard, cowboy.

I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you.

Originally Posted by lumpi

Hmm, I've seen this before.

http://www.xcomufo.com/pics/ufo6.png



Yea, why not. My guess is that the system will be similar to this anyway because it mixes realism/style with the freer space management of DX1. Not bad.

Can't say I was thinking of X-COM when I drew that, seeing as I've never played that game. It's mostly a hybrid of the systems used in Baldur's Gate, Diablo II and Deus Ex with some inspiration from a thread about inventory systems on a board I found while reading about inventory systems.

[GmanPro]

Originally Posted by Romeo

...That system would be gnarlier (Yes I said it)...

Originally Posted by René

...Besides, I think the way I talk is radical, tubular, far out, and I'm stoked to be here...

Originally Posted by Mr. K

...with an extra dose of awesome.

I luv this forum

[Almost_somebody]

As long as it isn't intrusive and game breaking, I vote for a weight based system of some sort. Plenty of games do this without being overly intrusive. Metal Gear Solid 3 might be a good example.

In MGS3 you could carry everything and the kitchen sink in your "backpack", which was basically a menu you access by pressing start, with no kind of weight restriction. Now, you also had a quick access menu which would only hold a limited ammount of weapons and gear respectively, and which affected your run speed and stamina in a very, very small way. It was unintrusive, but it was there.

As long as it doesn't ammount to frustrating design choices and gameplay situations I say give us a tiny bit of realism in our inventory management. and for god sakes, give us a static location we can return to and store our gear, whether it's a helicopter a car or an apartment.

[GmanPro]

Originally Posted by Almost_somebody

...and for god sakes, give us a static location we can return to and store our gear, whether it's a helicopter a car or an apartment.

Maybe the helicopter as a place to store stuff might work. But I don't want a static hub. JC was always on the move, and I liked that.

I sometimes stashed stuff in the luminous path compound when going through Hong Kong. Which felt awesome

[ZylonBane]

LatwPIAT's system is stupid and I hate it. You don't play a bloody mech in this game. If it doesn't make any difference where on your body you store things, then there's absolutely zero reason not to abstract the inventory into a unified grid matrix. Otherwise you're just adding pointless (and excruciatingly annoying) complexity.

[Ilves]

Originally Posted by Almost_somebody

Metal Gear Solid 3 might be a good example.

The item management in both MGS3 and 4 was horrible if you ask me. It made no sense whatsoever to be able to haul all this junk in hammerspace at no stamina cost until you allocated it into your backpack, and only then feel the burden.

Switching stuff around was a terrible pace breaker, I hope DX3 stays far away from anything like it.

[Blade_hunter]

The complaint about DX 2 inentory it was the fact that inventory doesn't take i consideration the item size / value

All inventories I submitted took that in consideration, also some players want a inventory that take in consideration the fact a rifle is smaller than a rocket launcher and bigger than a pistol in an inventory, that's a point that everyone agrees, I think.

but the other specifications like inventory size, "accuracy/precision", limitation system (weight or space in therms of value/size) or unified space are features that are in discussion

What player wants ?
Restrictions or freedom or limited freedom

Restrictions is simple take a very limited inventory and we got restrictions
Freedom is simple too we got no restrictive inventory, we can carry everything we want without worries
In limited freedom we got a flexible inventory that allow a good bunch of combinations, in build therms

Also unified grid is perhaps my fav except on body suit slots



EDIT: Just curious what is MGS 3 item management ?
not because I want that, nothing like that, but I want to know

[Ashpolt]

Originally Posted by ZylonBane

You don't play a bloody mech in this game.

Uhh....yes you do! By the end of it, at least. :P

[Ilves]

Originally Posted by Blade_hunter

EDIT: Just curious what is MGS 3 item management ?

It basically means that there's no limit to the amount of items you can pick up. You can carry a crapload of weapons at all time, without their weight depleting your stamina. Only the weapons (about 6) you have allocated in your inventory slots drain strength. This means that you can have rocket launchers, stinger missiles and anti tank rifles with you that don't weigh a thing as long as you don't allocate them. It's totally unrealistic, and if your style of playing is varied, or as in my case, you suck at stealth you're constantly switching between light arms and heavy guns. It's a fun killer.

[Almost_somebody]

Originally Posted by Ilves

The item management in both MGS3 and 4 was horrible if you ask me. It made no sense whatsoever to be able to haul all this junk in hammerspace at no stamina cost until you allocated it into your backpack, and only then feel the burden.

Switching stuff around was a terrible pace breaker, I hope DX3 stays far away from anything like it.

Oh yes, the entire menu system of MGS3 was a horrible trainwreck. The inventory management was also the most retardedly illogical thing ever.


I guess it was a horrible, horrible example now that think of. It was pretty much the non intrusive weight management bit that I liked. I didn't even notice it my first time through.

[LatwPIAT]

Originally Posted by ZylonBane

LatwPIAT's system is stupid and I hate it. You don't play a bloody mech in this game. If it doesn't make any difference where on your body you store things, then there's absolutely zero reason not to abstract the inventory into a unified grid matrix. Otherwise you're just adding pointless (and excruciatingly annoying) complexity.

Enforcing space restrictions. Going by what you can see of my sketch, there's no way to carry more than 1 2x4 weapon, even though there's a total of 18 avaliable spaces. Whether you consider this good, I can't say, but there is a reason I designed it that way.

[Blade_hunter]

If I understand well it's an unlimited inventory that limits you only if you put weapons in selection slots ?
If it's that it's better to have an unlimited inventory that allow you to select weapons without to go every time on the inventory screen ...

[ZylonBane]

Originally Posted by LatwPIAT

Whether you consider this good, I can't say

I think I made it pretty clear that I don't consider it good. You've somehow managed to come up with something that's even worse than Invisible War's inventory.

It's as simple as this-- Most RPG gamers love to packrat. Your system is specifically designed to discourage packratting. Therefore it is automatically full of FAIL.

[Ilves]

Originally Posted by Almost_somebody

It was pretty much the non intrusive weight management bit that I liked. I didn't even notice it my first time through.

IMO it was so unintrusive that it was dispensible as a whole... I never really liked the whole hunger/stamina concept of MGS3 alltogether. All the focus on the physical state of your PC without any visual indicators other than a stamina bar was kinda lost on me.

Although I did like the sound of Snake's rumblin' tummy. I've mistaken it for my own on many occasions...

[LatwPIAT]

Originally Posted by ZylonBane

I think I made it pretty clear that I don't consider it good. You've somehow managed to come up with something that's even worse than Invisible War's inventory.

It's as simple as this-- Most RPG gamers love to packat.[citation needed] Your system is specifically designed to discourage packratting. Therefore it is automatically full of FAIL.

Yet you are the only person, on a board populated by people who enjoyed Deus Ex, who has showed clear disinterest in my system. Reading around in other threads, I've noticed a lot of these people play RPGs...

Additionally, if all we want is to allow packratting; Implement the Fallout system of management. No space restrictions, just an absurdly high weight restriction. Problem solved.

[Blade_hunter]

Originally Posted by LatwPIAT

Enforcing space restrictions. Going by what you can see of my sketch, there's no way to carry more than 1 2x4 weapon, even though there's a total of 18 avaliable spaces. Whether you consider this good, I can't say, but there is a reason I designed it that way.

Eh you could made a 3x7 backpack, you obtain the same results without limiting too much the inventory.
and allow some moves / management inside
you want to disallow the ability to carry more than 1 2x4 weapon
a 3x7 zone give you the same possibility and allow more choices
even if you add more zones with 1xX spaces or 2(+)x X(up to 3) you couldn't carry more than 1 heavy weapon if they take 2x4 spaces

[Ninjerk]

Originally Posted by ZylonBane

I think I made it pretty clear that I don't consider it good. You've somehow managed to come up with something that's even worse than Invisible War's inventory.

It's as simple as this-- Most RPG gamers love to packat. Your system is specifically designed to discourage packratting. Therefore it is automatically full of FAIL.

I appreciated that I couldn't carry every utility item I needed whilst carrying a GEP Gun and a nearly fully upgraded sniper rifle.

[LatwPIAT]

Originally Posted by Blade_hunter

Eh you could made a 3x7 backpack, you obtain the same results without limiting too much the inventory.
and allow some moves / management inside
you want to disallow the ability to carry more than 1 2x4 weapon
a 3x7 zone give you the same possibility and allow more choices
even if you add more zones with 1xX spaces or 2(+)x X(up to 3) you couldn't carry more than 1 heavy weapon if they take 2x4 spaces

But then there's a theoretical maximum inventory size limit of 21, as an inventory sized 3x8 will allow two 2x4 weapons to be stacked horizontally. Besides, my inventory sketch didn't only limit 2x4 weapons, it also limited 1x4 weapons, 2x2 weapons and 2x1 weapons by breaking the inventory up into smaller parts. You can't do the same thing with rectangles.

For example, my sketch has 18 inventory spots. I didn't draw it but assume the belt are 6 individual squares. Now replicate that limitation with a 3x6 inventory. You can't because you can always shove a Dragon's Tooth Sword in below the 2x4 weapon. By breaking the inventory up into smaller compartments, you suddenly can't do that anymore. There is a difference.

[ZylonBane]

Originally Posted by Ninjerk

I appreciated that I couldn't carry every utility item I needed whilst carrying a GEP Gun and a nearly fully upgraded sniper rifle.

...and your point is?

[FrankCSIS]

Originally Posted by ZylonBane

...and your point is?

From the health regen thread, the simplest explanation as to why allowing the player to be a super pack rat is a bad idea:

Originally Posted by GmanPro

Oblivion and Fallout3 have the same problem. There is no reason to try anything new because your best weapon handles each and every situation better than anything else you could have tried. You have to basically make up your own fun and pretend that you need to sneak past the super mutant over yonder, because there is virtually no penalty whatsoever involved in simply melting him to goo with one shot from your plasma rifle.

Hope you don't mind the quote, Gman, but it's the simplest way to put it. In my current game, I have a rocket launcher, a nuke launcher, two shotguns, three handguns, one riffle, one chaingun, one smg and one assault riffle, plus a ton of grenades. I could leave some of it behind to force me to try harder, but you said it yourself Zylon, I'm a huge pack rat. The more space I get, the more stuff I'll keep. Forcing me to chose makes the immersion, and overall experience, so much better. At least for the initial playthrough. I can always cheat later on, if I want to carry everything and feel like Superman.

[Blade_hunter]

The difference is, you made a value system like DX completely useless by limiting everything and remove all the fun.
FPS inventory work like that without useless complexity and frustrating choices

EDIT:
I don't want to cheat to find some pleasure in a game
I prefer to feel like superman than have a frustrating gameplay that forces me to cheat

[FrankCSIS]

There's a difference between absolute inane restriction and some form of management. I don't understand your point, considering you're proposing a system with size restriction. All I'm arguing is how less of an impact a game has when you can carry the best of everything, and never have to worry about any given situation.

[JCD]

I like the systems proposed, they are interesting ideas that could actually work. I myself would have no problem if the game had a system similar to these.

However, since they are a bit "restricting", I continue to believe that a blend between DX and STALKER's weight management, would be the best, since most gamers would easily adapt to it.

[Blade_hunter]

Yes there is but he wants to limit a lot of loadouts combinations, that would mean there isn't much differences with an inane restriction and an inventory that give you the feeling you can manage something and finally you can't because the zones are strictly weapon sized for most of them

Why he needs to limits a great loadout combinations with an inflexible value system ?
you can do the same job in limitation therms without to give a false good feeling with an inane system
It's like you add XP in a game and you never feel their effect.

I've thought he just wanted to limit more heavy weapons, but that's not the case, he wants to limit more than that, what the need ?

I want some freedom in a game and even the inventories I submitted aren't freedom and fun killer, you are limited, yes but not at the extreme point.

Also a weight system is good since it isn't so restrictive, and bestsides if it's upgradeable by any mean (item or XP)
I prefer space inventories by value / size because it's easier to optimize our loadout

[Archy]

Originally Posted by ZylonBane

I think I made it pretty clear that I don't consider it good. You've somehow managed to come up with something that's even worse than Invisible War's inventory.

It's as simple as this-- Most RPG gamers love to packrat. Your system is specifically designed to discourage packratting. Therefore it is automatically full of FAIL.

Really? I don't see much wrong with it. Then again, I kind of get where you're coming from with the whole packratting thing. But seriously, that doesn't mean it's bad. Sometimes you have to make trade offs. It's pretty much impossible to please everyone. That's why in all of those kiddy shows they keep chanting over and over, "KEPP AN OPEN MIND LOL ."

But anyway, getting back on topic, I like LatwPiat's design. It'd be even cooler if Eidos Montréal had it so the items assigned to parts of your body showed in third-person. Moreover, having a crapload of stuff on one part could also affect you in negatively. For an example, keeping a bunch of crap on your shooting arm would make your aim worse. Basically, having a lot of stuff on one limb would have the same effect as localized damage in Deus Ex.

That'd be so cool.

OFF TOPIC: I can't believe nobody has taken this name.