HACKING - the All About It Discussion Thread - Page 2

El_Bel · #26 03-13-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by René

See below.

See below.

This is pretty accurate. But I didn't say 'nothin!

It depends on the security of the terminal itself. But probably anywhere from 10 seconds to 30 seconds or more for really hard ones? Don't quote me on that since I don't want the dev team to beat me with reeds.

Yes.

Line of sight.

Wow, some answers!! Are you feeling ok Rene? You are acting strange..

GmanPro · #27 03-13-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashpolt

Also - do we get to type in usernames and password (and keycodes) manually? It really bugged me in IW that it did it automatically for you!

Things like that are but a symptom of a much greater problem inherent in the core of the design of IW and I fear that Deus Ex 3 is treading dangerously close to this very same path.

jamhaw · #28 03-13-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmanPro

Things like that are but a symptom of a much greater problem inherent in the core of the design of IW and I fear that Deus Ex 3 is treading dangerously close to this very same path.

Well IW was made as a console game and it would have been very difficult time consuming and boring to do it on a console. Thats why they had the codes automatically entered in The Conspiracy as well. Since this game it going to be merely ported to consoles (I think, I'm not sure where I got that from) then it would hopefully be keeping PC centric options for the PC version.

K^2 · #29 03-13-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by René

Line of sight.

Ok, thanks.

As for hacking, it still feels like EM is putting it in just because everyone else is doing it, but at least it seems like they tried to make it fluid. Choice of either using your gray matter and wasting a bit of time on each terminal, or upgrading hack augment to the fullest and simply logging into lower and mid-level terminals like in earlier games, somehow feels right for Deus Ex. There are still plenty of ways this can end up really broken, but at least they are on the right track.

GmanPro · #30 03-14-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HouseOfPain

Also, once hacked, can you stay in the terminal for as long as you want?

Quote:

Originally Posted by René

Yes.

This is a departure from Deus Ex. I'm not sure how I feel about that

I guess its no big deal

Necros · #31 03-14-2009, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmanPro

This is a departure from Deus Ex. I'm not sure how I feel about that

I guess its no big deal

I know how I feel about it, I like it.

And thanks for the answers and tips René!

Blade_hunter · #32 03-14-2009, 06:23 AM

Normally their hacking system seems to be a "fast" system, because the system used in bioshock is more related to some flash games than a hack related thing
I don't know what they have in mind but I hope there is something "intelligent and smart"

K^2 · #33 03-14-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Bel

Wow, some answers!! Are you feeling ok Rene? You are acting strange..

I got this mental image for some reason. Every day for the past several months, Rene visits D'astous' office. The same conversation takes place.

D'Astous (In strong French accent.)
- They are asking questions again?
- Yes, Mr. D'Astous.
- Well, let them sweat. Don't tell them anything.
(With obedient disappointment in voice.) - Yes, Mr. D'Astous.

Maybe that was Rene's way of rebelling a little bit. Being a community relationship guy and not spilling all the info must be difficult.

AaronJ · #34 03-14-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashpolt

As it's about the only piece of new information from the FAQ thread, I thought it'd be a good idea to start a conversation about the hacking element of Deus Ex 3. Here's what we know:

Personally, I can't see how this can possibly be a good idea. In DX1 and IW (if you had the aug) hacking was something you did all the freaking time, so if it's anywhere near as prevalent in DX3 then we're going to be spending a lot of time playing this not-minigame - and what an immersion breaker! Imagine the scene: you're running away from some enemies, you spot a turret but duck behind a wall before it can shoot you, and you see its control panel. In DX1 or IW, you activate the panel, and in a few seconds you've turned it against the enemies that are chasing you. In DX3, you're going to have to sit there for a while and play a not-minigame, during which time either time pauses (removing any tension from hacking) or you get an angry terrorist boot up your backside.

And as other people have pointed out, even ignoring anything else, this is going to get really, really tedious after a few goes. Did anyone else purposely avoid hacking in Bioshock after a couple of hours just so you didn't have to play the minigame, even though it meant getting less stuff? Yeah, me too.

I never bought into it when people said it before, but I'm beginning to agree now: it seems like the time are trying to make Bioshock 2 rather than Deus Ex 3.

WHAT THE HELL!!!! Is this confirmed?!?!?!

Larington · #35 03-14-2009, 09:38 AM

Sounds like a variant on System Shock 2s hacking system* but in real time, I'm just glad that game time doesn't pause when you go into hacking mode, its one of two major reasons for why I didn't like Bioshocks hacking minigame, firstly that it made no sense in a game time gets paused kind of way (But the minigame has a realtime element on it so surely real-time is ticking along, yet it ain't) and secondly that it got really awfully repetitive.

The big challenge, if it really has to be some sort of minigame, is to prevent the game from being annoying/repetitive/dull after the 50th time you've played it, something that you'd be quite happy to play standalone (Bioshocks minigame failed in that regard).

"I never bought into it when people said it before, but I'm beginning to agree now: it seems like the time are trying to make Bioshock 2 rather than Deus Ex 3."
Hmm, I've got this really uncomfortable feeling at the back of my mind, that that remark isn't as wide of the mark as I wish it was.

*In SS2s hacking system, you are presented with a pattern of squares and have to get 3 in a row, based on your skill and augmentations you will either fail/succeed each time you click on a square, some (Number depending on skill) are trap squares that set off an alarm if you fail that particular square. Don't think DX3s will be exactly like that, but in concept its sorta reminiscent if the same basic idea.

Ashpolt · #36 03-14-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronJ

WHAT THE HELL!!!! Is this confirmed?!?!?!

Straight from the FAQ thread.

GmanPro · #37 03-14-2009, 11:46 AM

Its not going to be as tedious as in BioShock because we are still going to have lock picking, and hopefully multitools as well. They used the plumbing minigame for everything in BioShock.

DemonNick · #38 03-14-2009, 12:21 PM

Funny thing is that when Deus Ex first came out, I remember that me and a lot of other fans of the game said that the hacking system was one of the major flaws.

personally I'd rather something more akin to uplink than SS2, but so long as it's not a remake of an old puzzle game like Bioshock's was then I'm a happy camper

It being all in engine rather than a separate screen is really sweet as well.

Ashpolt · #39 03-14-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmanPro

Its not going to be as tedious as in BioShock because we are still going to have lock picking, and hopefully multitools as well. They used the plumbing minigame for everything in BioShock.

Dunno about you, but I hacked a hell of a lot in DX1 and IW. There may be alternatives, but I want to choose those alternatives because they're a better use of my time / resources, rather than because I simply don't want to have to play a minigame for the 50th time.

And yeah, it sort of worked in SS2, but that's because it was really, really quick, and it kind of made sense as an actual hacking tool - I don't see how an RTS style minigame can pass itself off as something you might actually have to do to hack a system. That said, the sheer fact that it's been confirmed that you'll remain in-engine for this makes me inclined to give this feature a hell of a lot more leeway than I would otherwise, so we'll see.

Blade_hunter · #40 03-14-2009, 12:40 PM

System shock used the same hacking system for everything too, the only difference is you aren't forced to make everyone of them and / or use the "minigame" to reach your ends.
Like deus ex you can hack / find the code / password / key / or destroy to pass a situation / open a way.
Bioshock used some tweaks from SS2 but in a more uniform manner and not better than they were in SS2 (take photos to make more damage

)
I preferred the item / organ research, with the need of search skill level and chemicals to complete the research

The only interesting thing from bioshock are the inventions though but some other games before used that kind of thing

For me a game about choices needs to give choices even to open a locked door or pass to the other side of a wall

K^2 · #41 03-14-2009, 12:52 PM

Ashpolt, depending on vulnerabilities being exploited, it can look a lot like an RTS. For example, if you managed to get limited access and trying to get root via buffer overflow on a system with canaries, you will need to know exactly when the security code checks the canaries between buffers. If it detects a change in canaries, it will lock the system. You have to get root and kill security process before it has a chance to do that. This is the basis for action-response-action scheme that has been described as RTS-like.

But this is just as far as the real world motivation may go. In my opinion, the important part is how the gameplay works. The very concept of an ICE Breaker is not very realistic, but as long as it works within gameplay, I'm fine with it.

And from gameplay perspective, if you will only hack a few times, it won't get repetitive. So as long as the hacking aug is there, and fully upgraded it makes hacking very simple so that you have to go through the RTS thing on only highly secure systems, I don't see a problem. If you'll be hacking a lot, you will chose that aug. And if so, it's no more repetitive than hacking in DX.

lumpi · #42 03-14-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K^2

For example, if you managed to get limited access and trying to get root via buffer overflow on a system with canaries, you will need to know exactly when the security code checks the canaries between buffers. If it detects a change in canaries, it will lock the system. You have to get root and kill security process before it has a chance to do that.

... sure

I'd still like to know, though: Can you type in passwords manually?

Here's an example for how it could affect gameplay:

You meet some knowledgeable guy at a bar. He tells you the guy you're looking for likes parrots. Your hacking skill is zero, but your conversation skill is pretty good, so you got the info. Now you try to access the guy's email account and the password turns out to be "Ara".

I had a few moments like that in Deus Ex (or at least similar ones) and it felt great.

K^2 · #43 03-14-2009, 01:42 PM

^ And that's how most hacking is actually done.

Blade_hunter · #44 03-14-2009, 01:53 PM

You would mean you want some enigmas to solve ?
Even in a non conversation related in SS2 I got one that perhaps everyone who played SS2 remember.
The Screens when we change their picture in the level 5 of the Ship they display numbers and those numbers were a part of a code for a terminal

GmanPro · #45 03-14-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

And like you guys, I wonder if we'll type in logins/PWs and keycodes manually. And if it'll lead to clever moves (exploits, arguably) like "save your game, pay someone to learn a code, reload game, use the code, keep your cash".

Ha! I did that all the time

. Like the free clinic in Hells Kitchen.

Lol! I'll never forget the code to the 'phone booth' in battery park. M-O-L-E, that's 6653.