TR9: Weapons and Inventory

[rg_001100]

Weapons and the inventory related to them play a key role in combat, which is one of the essential gaming elements of the Tomb Raider series.

What improvements would you like to see in the weapons and inventory?
What sort of inventory and weapon system would be appropriate for TR, as done previously in the series, or in other games?

With weapons,
What weapons should be included in the game?
In previous TRs we've seen a variety of weapons like the Shotgun, Desert Eagle, Dual Uzis, Grenade Launchers and even a Rocket Launcher, as well as supernatural weapons such as Excalibur.
Are there any additional abilities these weapons should have that would fit within TR?
e.g. Grenade Launcher could shoot flash grenades, or the Assault rifle could have a grenade-launcher attachment. Perhaps scoped-weapons could be used to shoot at targets from great distances.

With the inventory system,
How many weapons should Lara be able to carry?
In TR:L, we were only able to carry one extra weapon, whereas in every other Tomb Raider game we have been able to carry all the weapons we could get our hands on. Many First Person Shooters limit the number of main-weapons the player can carry to two. Mirror's Edge does not allow the player to carry a heavy weapon when performing platforming, and slows the player's movements with a pistol.
What should we be able to pick up from the environment in terms of weapons, and ammo?
In TR:U, we were unable to pickup ammo or weapons from the fallen bad guys as we were able to in previous games (in most circumstances). Should we be able to pick ammo, etc. up from bad guys? From scattered places in the environments? Should there be dropped ammo-supplies, an ammo cache of sorts so we can get ammo from there?

How many weapons should Lara take with her at the start of a level?
Should it be the classic way of carrying all the weapons from the end of one level, to the next? Should Lara only take one additional weapon into the level? Should Lara go in with only her dual pistols into each level?
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[Combat Threads] - See Also: TR9: Enemies

[JustMe]

Well i think it'd be nice if she just started with her pistols...and maybe select a secondary weapon...just once not at the start of each level...and you find the others on the way...picking up ammo from bad guys? YES!!!!!!!
well i'd like a Desert Eagle maybe the assault rifle can get a lasersight thing

Hm...OH AND AN IPOD
and they should put Lara's melee moves to good use...make a weapon-less level or something and idk let her get a broom and hit everything
oh maybe a stealth level
and idc if it has Urban levels...as long as their tomb-y..like TR2's Venice levels
AND SPOOKY LEVELS!!!!!!!

Uh...i think i went too far

[MissJess]

Very good thread, I was thinking about this the other day whilst playing Anniversary. One part I loved about previous TR's, is finding the weapons. I wasnt fond of having all of them at the start to choose from, I like finding them along the way. Starting with nothing but Lara's signature duel pistols, and finding better, and stronger weapons along the way. Of coarse it's strange, finding a pair of uzi's inside a peruvian tomb, but it gives you the feeling of "Yeah! Sweet I found the uzi's!" Well, for me anyways.

[Icetea]

I fell that way to about TR guns. You are not the only one.
I also miss the TR traps we use to have. we also had traps in TRU but they were to different. They are not the same they are almost a different type of traps not as fun as the traps that they had in TRA. I would like traps to come back like they had them in TRA .The good old original TR traps version we always had .Just like it was when they made TR Anniversary that was the good old original TR traps I like.

[rg_001100]

Traps in a thread that *really* wants to talk about weapons?

In TR:U, with the healthpacks she didn't take any to carry on to the next level. I think it would be good going into a level if she had only her dual pistols, along with a main weapon of her choice. She could carry ammo, or stuff picked up from mercs along with her from previous levels, perhaps.

[gizmo]

For weapons and inventory, DO NOT put all her weapons on her PDA for us to change when ever we want
Instead give us the original inventory used in TR1-6and TRA
That one works nicely
The weapons I want to see back are the Rocket Launcher, Dessert Eagle and the Automatic pistols (I loved those )
And the item I want to see make a return are the flares as another form of light in caves, and if you got explosives (like plastic eplosives) which you stuck to walls in certain levels to get through doorways that have been blocked, and the good old medipack for tombs

[GoLarago]

I liked the PDA and being able to pick my current active weapons and it was probably just as quick as the old ring menus. I would agree though that I want to find the weapons. Don't give them all to me at the beggining. I also want to find ammo again. I'd also like levels where we get caught and all our weapons get taken and we have to find the old ones or new ones to replace them. Maybe in those areas there could be hand to hand combat moves that aren't avalable when we have all our guns with us. sort of a change up. ( But please no computer controlled button pushing, not all of us are have super fast reflexes)

I wouldn't mind having the flares back cause they let you see in areas that you flashlight doesn't reach. There basiclly worthless though till they bring back some real challages in the trap area. About the only thing you have to worry about now is being killed by people and an occational animal. Remember the torches we used in TR4 to sorta keep the beatles away. LOL

[rg_001100]

Originally Posted by GoLarago

I liked the PDA and being able to pick my current active weapons and it was probably just as quick as the old ring menus.

Possibly, but the ring menus had class
It was a little odd to have the weapon selection in the PDA, though. Perhaps the style TR:A had it, with the mouse scroll-wheel, or D-Pad allowing you to cycle through weapons.

Originally Posted by GoLarago

...I'd also like levels where we get caught and all our weapons get taken and we have to find the old ones or new ones to replace them. Maybe in those areas there could be hand to hand combat moves that aren't avalable when we have all our guns with us.

I wouldn't like to see a different melee/control system specifically for one level. That would be very hard to make, and very confusing to play.
In the areas where we get disarmed, because Lara now has melee it may make it challenging to get some good action. Levels like "Offshore Rig" (I think it was), were good because you had to run from enemies you could otherwise have fought with the dual pistols.

[CCarver]

Remember the exploding cross bow! that was fun but maybe unnecessary. Maybe if it served a bigger purpose and could hook a rope to it then use it to zip-line from afar.
-wasnt there a game with a zip-line in it too?? cant remember if it was tr3 maybe...

one thing that would be really cool if we had more stealth levels, is to have a silencer to put on and take off of a gun. but then the problem with that is it would lead to being able to use one gun a time, and a lot of people didnt like that in AOD. didnt bother me though.

And as far as the inventory, she shouldnt be able to carry more than 2 or 3 weapons at a time. anymore would just seem too un realistic

[rg_001100]

Originally Posted by CCarver

Remember the exploding cross bow! that was fun but maybe unnecessary. Maybe if it served a bigger purpose and could hook a rope to it then use it to zip-line from afar.
-wasnt there a game with a zip-line in it too?? cant remember if it was tr3 maybe...

There was a grapple gun in TR5, that could shoot a rope. There were static ziplines in TR2, and TR3. (Returning in TR:L. I'm not sure if there were any in TR4/5).

Originally Posted by CCarver

one thing that would be really cool if we had more stealth levels, is to have a silencer to put on and take off of a gun. but then the problem with that is it would lead to being able to use one gun a time, and a lot of people didnt like that in AOD. didnt bother me though.

The first person shooter Crysis, follow on from Far Cry, uses customisation to overcome this with stealth. A silencer can be attached/detached as the player wants it, but the weapon is weaker when silenced, and it takes more bullets to kill the enemy. (Far Cry had done the "one-weapon-for-stealth" idea. Made it a decision of whether you wanted to drop a more powerful weapon for stealth).

[Professor Black]

I'd like to see Lara start packing around a 7" Kabar. She could use it for utility purposes and stab the heck out of creatures sort of like in the latest Turok game.

[naraku]

Haven't read every post, but here's my two cents. I would like her to carry the usual amount she has always been able to. Duals and Shotgun, Uzi holsters beneath the pistols. In me thinks TR4 we were able to combine the revolver with something, she could perhaps pick up or combine her downed foes weaponry with hers. Customize hers using theirs. In at least one level say she got to the location using a jeep. I would like to be able to go backtrack to it and have a trunk load of armaments, for us to chose from. I would like a bowie knife and be able to use it for things other than killing things. Like start a fire/lite a torch, as well as dislodge a brick or stone. Also us the weapons in melee, like club foes with and block attacks. similar to how she used poles in TRU. Oh and don't put clips and in newly discovered tombs, that makes them seems like tourist attractions rather than newly discovered by Lara.

[rg_001100]

Originally Posted by naraku

In me thinks TR4 we were able to combine the revolver with something, she could perhaps pick up or combine her downed foes weaponry with hers. Customize hers using theirs.

Yes, in TR4&5 we were able to combine the Lasersight with the Crossbow (I think), and the Revolver. (I think this allowed you to shoot off the heads of skeleton warriors; in TR5 it made headshots possible).
I thought the customisation features of Crysis were brilliant. (Link #1, Link #2 to give a rough idea of what I'm talking about). In the game, when the player picks up attachments for the weapon, they can attach it to the weapon as they need. Could benefit TR such as Laser sight for accuracy, flashlight for ... flashlight, silencer for stealth, scopes for precision aiming, etc.
The customization system in Crysis was realtime, weapons could be customized on-the-fly.

Originally Posted by naraku

In at least one level say she got to the location using a jeep. I would like to be able to go backtrack to it and have a trunk load of armaments, for us to chose from.

I'm not sure having the ammo cache in a known, safe location is the greatest idea in terms of gameplay. Having it hidden away in a cave, or behind dangerous traps, perhaps.

Originally Posted by naraku

I would like a bowie knife and be able to use it for things other than killing things. Like start a fire/lite a torch, as well as dislodge a brick or stone. Also us the weapons in melee, like club foes with and block attacks. similar to how she used poles in TRU. Oh and don't put clips and in newly discovered tombs, that makes them seems like tourist attractions rather than newly discovered by Lara.

I like the idea of weapon-melee. Many FPShooters have had this feature, if not for the player than for the enemy.

[naraku]

Originally Posted by rg_001100

Yes, in TR4&5 we were able to combine the Lasersight with the Crossbow (I think), and the Revolver. (I think this allowed you to shoot off the heads of skeleton warriors; in TR5 it made headshots possible).
I thought the customisation features of Crysis were brilliant. (Link #1, Link #2 to give a rough idea of what I'm talking about). In the game, when the player picks up attachments for the weapon, they can attach it to the weapon as they need. Could benefit TR such as Laser sight for accuracy, flashlight for ... flashlight, silencer for stealth, scopes for precision aiming, etc.
The customization system in Crysis was realtime, weapons could be customized on-the-fly.


I'm not sure having the ammo cache in a known, safe location is the greatest idea in terms of gameplay. Having it hidden away in a cave, or behind dangerous traps, perhaps.


I like the idea of weapon-melee. Many FPShooters have had this feature, if not for the player than for the enemy.

I know, it's do-able they just HAVEN'T done it yet. They have to some extent a few of these in Uncharted.

Though this would mean the next T would have to emphasize on action/ kill factor/ violence, when the peeps keep saying TR is not about those things. It's about the puzzles, mind you. I'd hate to one day play a game ala the Wii in which we have no foes, and no need of her trademark duals. I would just jump for joy if they added a bayonet to an simi automatic. At least when we run out of amo we could go medieval on some mercs.

[rg_001100]

Not so sure about the knife idea now. It would be quite bloodthirsty, wouldn't it? (for TR, anyway). (I know the early TRs had lots of blood in them, but they weren't quite so gory). If we did get a knife, one would have to wonder if we'd be able to throw it, and if we did whether we'd be able to get it back for throwing it to an unreachable position (like in the middle of a lava pool).

[jayjay119]

For the inventory, I would quite liek to see a return to the 'Item ring' from early TR games and TR:A. In my mind it is a simple system that works both easily and quicky. On the first playthrough onf TRU i found myself getting lost sometimes in the inventory screen lol.

As for weapons, I would like to see Lara with her classic 2 pistols, of course. The dual izis are nearly quite as iconic. Many people want to see a shot gun, grenade launcher and assault rifle- well maybe Lara could use an assault rifle with the shotgun/ grenade L/ Sniper attatchments which lends itself to interchangable ammo. Maybe there could be a Rocket Launcher but only on the Last level used for the final bossfight of the game, then as an unlockable.

[tombraiding101]

Originally Posted by jayjay119

For the inventory, I would quite liek to see a return to the 'Item ring' from early TR games and TR:A. In my mind it is a simple system that works both easily and quicky. On the first playthrough onf TRU i found myself getting lost sometimes in the inventory screen lol.

As for weapons, I would like to see Lara with her classic 2 pistols, of course. The dual izis are nearly quite as iconic. Many people want to see a shot gun, grenade launcher and assault rifle- well maybe Lara could use an assault rifle with the shotgun/ grenade L/ Sniper attatchments which lends itself to interchangable ammo. Maybe there could be a Rocket Launcher but only on the Last level used for the final bossfight of the game, then as an unlockable.

Yep. But it would be nice to add a bit of RPG effects to the weaponery like being able to customize them and be able to buy guns and customize them. And as for the rocket launcher, nice idea!!

[rg_001100]

Originally Posted by tombraiding101

Yep. But it would be nice to add a bit of RPG effects to the weaponery like being able to customize them and be able to buy guns and customize them. And as for the rocket launcher, nice idea!!

I'm not so sure about the ability to "buy" items for weapons. It comes to mind, though, in a game that's pretty similar to the Core raiders (Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine), that you find treasures within the level (I can't remember how well they were hidden), and finding these treasures gives you money. At the end of each level, you could spend the money on health, ammo, etc. (If I Recall Correctly), not sure about weapons. (Another platformer I've played does this as well, but not quite in the same style). Secrets that unlock customizations, such as a laser sight or a scope, could be a good way of doing that.

I think the idea for the Rocket Launcher as a last-level weapon is good, aside from perhaps being a bit dull.
In TR:L, we had Excalibur as the end-game weapon (EGW), with the level "Bolivia Redux" as the level to use that. The level was split into two parts: the first part where you fight the mercenaries easily, and the second part where you fight the big bad boss who can only be defeated with Excalibur.
In TR:U, we had Thor's Hammer as the EGW. We got to play with it in Andaman Sea, and the Arctic Sea. The Andaman Sea level was set on a boat, with mercenary enemies. This was very simple + easy, roughly analogous to the first part of Bolivia Redux. In the Arctic Sea, we did not see a big bad boss that required the player to use the EGW, instead we saw the same enemies that the player had encountered with a pistol, and because the EGW is so powerful, we saw a lot of these guys. The tactic of the combat was "press the 'shoot' button really fast", or similar, rather than dodging, evading and shooting the opponent. It did not work very well.
Having the Bazooka, or a Rocket Launcher, as the EGW allows them to have enemies easily killed with the weapon, and have tougher boss fights, yet it is not so over-powered that there must be hordes of enemies placed in the game to make it tough, although the bazooka is somewhat a step down the ladder after Excalibur, and Thor's Hammer.

[naraku]

Originally Posted by jayjay119

For the inventory, I would quite liek to see a return to the 'Item ring' from early TR games and TR:A. In my mind it is a simple system that works both easily and quicky. On the first playthrough onf TRU i found myself getting lost sometimes in the inventory screen lol.

As for weapons, I would like to see Lara with her classic 2 pistols, of course. The dual izis are nearly quite as iconic. Many people want to see a shot gun, grenade launcher and assault rifle- well maybe Lara could use an assault rifle with the shotgun/ grenade L/ Sniper attatchments which lends itself to interchangable ammo. Maybe there could be a Rocket Launcher but only on the Last level used for the final bossfight of the game, then as an unlockable.

Yes I also prefer the old ring menu than the one in TRU, and the combo weapon as well. Part assault riffle/ shotgun/grenade launcher. but all of this is worthless unless we have something formidable to shoot at. The bulky combo weapon would be heavy and cumbersome though. Pluss they'll have to work out the controls scheme having to do with the switching from one or the other. The closest thing I can think of about all this weapon talk is the superb menu in the MGS series, but that would make this game too militaristic. She'd need a bigger backpack to go along with all those munitions. Something I have contemplated, while writing my fan fic, I picture her having a big army size or camping equipment size backpack and set up a base or camp in the wilderness somewhere nearby but hidden, here she could put up a tent, and keep her armaments.

Originally Posted by tombraiding101

Yep. But it would be nice to add a bit of RPG effects to the weaponery like being able to customize them and be able to buy guns and customize them. And as for the rocket launcher, nice idea!!

Buying things in tombs sounds ridicules to me somehow, you probably mean in urban areas, which could work but I don't want too much of in TR, One bad example I can think of is that ridicules sewer guy in Dark Sector. Ugh!!!!!...

@RG I don't think the money as a reward fits too good with the fact that she's wealthy and doesn't need it. Plus it makes her look like a thief, more than the devs would like. Brings up too many questions about who she sold them to. And sounds elicit.
I agree with most of what you said though

[jayjay119]

Originally Posted by rg_001100

Having the Bazooka, or a Rocket Launcher, as the EGW allows them to have enemies easily killed with the weapon, and have tougher boss fights, yet it is not so over-powered that there must be hordes of enemies placed in the game to make it tough, although the bazooka is somewhat a step down the ladder after Excalibur, and Thor's Hammer.

i agree, an RPG would be a step down from excalibur etc but I'm not a fan of the whole 'using the mystical waepon' like there has been in TRL and TRU. It was nice but only because the story permitted it. Can you imagin in TRA if Lara pulled the scion out of her backpack and started using it to shoot blue beams of atlantian power at Natla? it would have been pretty rediculous, plus not al games are going to be about finding an antient weapon so its makes sense to have some thing liek the RPG as a big weapon.

@Naraku, i don't think the backpack and weight are really concerns considering that Lara can famously fit the earth into that bagpack of hers lol. Plus i think a sort of sub catagort could be implemented into the inventory screen or certain buttons, for example considering you don't really use the [PS2/3] R2/L2 or [360] L/ R trigger for the actions the are used for in passive controls such as sprinting etc

So you could have the controls as such [using PS2/3 as base controls]

L1= aim (when L1 is pressed combat controls kick in)
R1= shoot main weapon [rifle]
R2= shoot secondary fire
L2= swap attatchment

and you can switch between ammo in the inventory.

[rg_001100]

Originally Posted by jayjay119

Plus i think a sort of sub catagort could be implemented into the inventory screen or certain buttons, for example considering you don't really use the [PS2/3] R2/L2 or [360] L/ R trigger for the actions the are used for in passive controls such as sprinting etc

So you could have the controls as such [using PS2/3 as base controls]

L1= aim (when L1 is pressed combat controls kick in)
R1= shoot main weapon [rifle]
R2= shoot secondary fire
L2= swap attatchment

and you can switch between ammo in the inventory.

There are 3 significant areas on the gamepad where control-buttons go; the D-Pad, the Face buttons, and the L/R buttons.
D-Pad is used for inventory/gear type tasks (Switch weapon, Flashlight, Binoc/Camera, Healthpack);
Face buttons are interactive buttons (Jump, Use, Roll, Grapple);
L/R buttons are character-state buttons (Sprint, combat). (Shoot, throw grenade are indeed 'active', but they bring Lara into combat state).

Weapon Attachment management can go in the inventory, as it was in TR4/5. It fits there nicely.
TR4/5 had weapons with multiple modes of fire, or multiple ammo type. (The HK gun in TR5 had Sniper/Burst/Automatic fire selection modes). That was in the inventory, and it worked there. Alternatively, they could be listed as seperate weapons, and the fire-selection modes be cycled through as seperate weapons, or it could be best to only carry one or two weapons in the inventory, select which one is being used (as in TR:U) and cycle through weapon fire modes there.
L/R buttons are full enough without adding "secondary fire" to them.

As for "aiming", with a scoped weapon the "Free Aim" button could be used.

[jayjay119]

Originally Posted by rg_001100

There are 3 significant areas on the gamepad where control-buttons go; the D-Pad, the Face buttons, and the L/R buttons.
D-Pad is used for inventory/gear type tasks (Switch weapon, Flashlight, Binoc/Camera, Healthpack);
Face buttons are interactive buttons (Jump, Use, Roll, Grapple);
L/R buttons are character-state buttons (Sprint, combat). (Shoot, throw grenade are indeed 'active', but they bring Lara into combat state).

Weapon Attachment management can go in the inventory, as it was in TR4/5. It fits there nicely.
TR4/5 had weapons with multiple modes of fire, or multiple ammo type. (The HK gun in TR5 had Sniper/Burst/Automatic fire selection modes). That was in the inventory, and it worked there. Alternatively, they could be listed as seperate weapons, and the fire-selection modes be cycled through as seperate weapons, or it could be best to only carry one or two weapons in the inventory, select which one is being used (as in TR:U) and cycle through weapon fire modes there.
L/R buttons are full enough without adding "secondary fire" to them.

As for "aiming", with a scoped weapon the "Free Aim" button could be used.

I thought that myself, but I though that having both ammo selection and mods in the inventory is both old fashioned and a way where the player spends too much time in the inventory screen as opposed toplaying the game. However it is done I suppose, the controls above are modified MGS4 controls but MGS did have in menu mods to. However CD tens to move away from using menus and invetories where possible, plus there would be no need to put options in the inventory when they couild be used on in game controls like I mapped out above.

I know th L/R buttons are mainly for character state but when pressing L1 Lara enters combat mode and doesn't use the character state functions anyway, i'm just advancing the combat controls as they are already used in a way I could see them going.

[rg_001100]

Originally Posted by jayjay119

I thought that myself, but I though that having both ammo selection and mods in the inventory is both old fashioned and a way where the player spends too much time in the inventory screen as opposed toplaying the game. However it is done I suppose, the controls above are modified MGS4 controls but MGS did have in menu mods to. However CD tens to move away from using menus and invetories where possible, plus there would be no need to put options in the inventory when they couild be used on in game controls like I mapped out above.

I know th L/R buttons are mainly for character state but when pressing L1 Lara enters combat mode and doesn't use the character state functions anyway, i'm just advancing the combat controls as they are already used in a way I could see them going.

The sad thing is, this is no problem at all for PC gamers. Screenshot of Crysis' Customization (that's the maximum customizations for the weapon, there. With that set, it can be anything from a stealth-sniper weapon, to an aggressive assault weapon - in mere seconds with a trained player). The trouble is, TR isn't just for the PC market.

Perhaps the customisation of the weapon, then, could happen at the start of the level, in the same place where outfit selection and "weapon selection" was in TR:U. The game suggests a weapon that they player should carry, and a set of customizations for it, and the player can choose what weapon they want, and a set of customisations for it. If that's too "tactical shooter", then first-run, the player is given the weapon and they have no say in the matter, and weapon customisation is unlockable. Weapon upgrades might be done in a similar fashion to the way TR:L handled it; find secrets and your guns get better.

[jayjay119]

Originally Posted by rg_001100

Perhaps the customisation of the weapon, then, could happen at the start of the level, in the same place where outfit selection and "weapon selection" was in TR:U. The game suggests a weapon that they player should carry, and a set of customizations for it, and the player can choose what weapon they want, and a set of customisations for it. If that's too "tactical shooter", then first-run, the player is given the weapon and they have no say in the matter, and weapon customisation is unlockable. Weapon upgrades might be done in a similar fashion to the way TR:L handled it; find secrets and your guns get better.

Yeah, that's sorta like the customisation menu at the beginning of the levels in Splinter Cell: chaos theory only more advanced in terms of modification. I think that could work.

[naraku]

Originally Posted by rg_001100

The sad thing is, this is no problem at all for PC gamers. Screenshot of Crysis' Customization (that's the maximum customizations for the weapon, there. With that set, it can be anything from a stealth-sniper weapon, to an aggressive assault weapon - in mere seconds with a trained player). The trouble is, TR isn't just for the PC market.

Perhaps the customisation of the weapon, then, could happen at the start of the level, in the same place where outfit selection and "weapon selection" was in TR:U. The game suggests a weapon that they player should carry, and a set of customizations for it, and the player can choose what weapon they want, and a set of customisations for it. If that's too "tactical shooter", then first-run, the player is given the weapon and they have no say in the matter, and weapon customisation is unlockable. Weapon upgrades might be done in a similar fashion to the way TR:L handled it; find secrets and your guns get better.

That is also similar to MGS4 in game customization. The customizations should be linked someway with player tailoring, if that makes any sense. Say you chose Exploration mode, the ratio of guns to say grapple features would be leaned towards the grapple. Exploration mode would allow Lara to chose between any set of trademark firepower. For instance duals and a shotgun, or Uzis and automatic riffle. As the game progresses and you encounter armed mercs, once taken care of, we could ala TR:L take any ammo and laser sights from the foes. Which we would do in a inventory screen. Or in that moment we could swap automatic for a shotgun as the need arises. Which would result in moments were we'll face a beast of some kind and be out of amo. This wouldn't mean we'd be defenseless. We should be able to club foes with, using a shotgun. I'm sure they'll be those who complain why'd they take out the unlimited ammo duals, well that depends on the mode and gun choice at the start of a level. If we want unlimited they still have the choice of equipping unlimited ammo dual pistols.