Warren Spector Speaketh

[DXeXodus]

Iconic game designer Warren Spector has said he believes lengthy adventure games are "on the way out".

The Deus Ex creator, who now heads Junction Point Studios for Disney, believes game designers need to work out how to meet a new generation of demands.

"I love working with Disney because I'm so tired of making games about guys in black leather carrying guns. I don't want to make those any more," Spector told Gamasutra.

"Building a game is as complex as making as a Hollywood movie. We are in a business that is both software engineer and entertainment, and we have to balance it. It used to be that you could trade off gameplay for graphics, but you can't do that any more.

"100-hour games are on the way out. How many of you have finished GTA? Two per cent, probably. If we're spending USD 100 million on a game, we want you to see the last level!" he added.

However, casual games have their own set of problems, according to Spector, who said, "If you don't make it on the front page, you don't get your game seen."

Spector has yet to put his name to a project since Ion Storm (Deus Ex series, Thief: Deadly Shadows) was closed by Eidos in 2004.

All we've heard of his Junction Point project is a teaser quote from the man on the studio website:

"When we do announce what we're doing, half the world's going to think we're crazy and half the world's going to think it's the coolest thing since sliced bread - how great is that?!"

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=154065

"I love working with Disney because I'm so tired of making games about guys in black leather carrying guns. I don't want to make those any more,"

It is sad to hear the iconic DX creator speak of lenghly, involved games like this. Maybe he gave it all up after DXIW crumbled to the ground.

Welcome to the new world of gaming: Short and simple.

I personally hope that developers never stop making deep, involved and lengthly games that focus on hardcore gamers. Long live DX! And may DX3 not get the above treatment.

[Lo Bruto]

This is the sign of the end of civilization.
Soon the world will be dominated by 1337 who owns nbs.

[jordan_a]

Originally Posted by DXeXodus

100-hour games are on the way out.

It's not like we have not seen that coming. But I must say I don't agree: are GTA, The Elder Scrolls, Zeldas and Marios on the way out? No.

[Tsumaru]

I don't think that proves that they won't shorten them to 70 hour, and then only 50 hour by Elder Scrolls 6. You never know, really. But I know I've played FPS' these days which I finish and just say "...was that it?" Probably a reason I've always been a fan of the longer RPGs.

[DXeXodus]

Short games are a very common occurance lately. Look at Call of Duty 4, it is an awesome game and action packed from start to finish, but way too short IMO. There will always be a place for long games.

[jordan_a]

That's what the developers of Half Life 2 also did, short games, episodes.

[AaronJ]

"100-hour games are on the way out."

ENTER, POP CAP.

[FrankCSIS]

Not the first to mention this outcome. I know quite a few adventure devs from yesteryear who came up a while ago with the prophecy of webisodes as the only viable option for adventure games. The costs are too high and the risks too bold for anyone to invest in a lengthy adventure unless it's an established franchise with guaranteed pre-orders.

The problem I see now and the question I raised back when I first heard of this is how does anyone think they will get past a simple cult following if they try to build a series from scratch? Much like Fox tv, we can expect a lot of abandoned projects along the way, and a lot of trials and errors before we get to see a series from start to finish. The series that will succeed will most likely try to stretch it as long as they can before coming to an end, and the other ones we might get attached to will never get past the second or third episode.

Of course one might think it's better to have such projects than no adventure games at all, and I for one would certainly enjoy a series of Deus Ex episodes, but I'd be really disappointed if it were to be canceled in the middle of a cliffhanger.

[rhalibus]

I can understand the idea of eliminating 100-hour games if the gamplay is too monotonous...but DX's 30 hours of gameplay seemed a good fit to its epic story.

I'm finishing the PC version of Mass Effect now, and I realize I'd rather have more focus on the main story and less side-quests...Deus Ex didn't have many side quests, but the main story was so interesting and involving that it didn't matter...

I hope Eidos Montreal makes DX3 as epic as the original.

[SomaMech]

And this is the very reason I'm turning away from gaming.

[AgnosticJive]

Isn't that so sad,to see "Jesus" Spector (not my term,but one I've seen several times on here.) Turn his back on sadistic leather clad bad boys.
Now the issue, game length, mass effect being mentioned:the game can go on 30+ hours with side questions which are completely optional, focusing on core missions you can finish the game in 10-20 hours...less if you have no life. Personally I'm all for long games, but I also value replay value, so if a game is only 20 hours yet I can play it over and over and over I would take that over a 50 hour epic that I beat once then never touch again.

On a side note: The new screen shots for the new tomb raider game show a little more graphical prowess then I was expecting which is a good thing since this is the same engine that will be used to power the as-of-yet uncanceled Deus Ex 3 ___quel.

Addendum to my side note: My previous "knowledge" of the Tomb Raider: Underworld being powered by the same engine as Deus Ex 3 came from before further development had taken place, apparently at this point in time Underworld is using a brand new engine made specifically for the game and is not in fact the same engine, Deus Ex 3 using a more outdated and aged engine. Sad news for me =/.

[jcp28]

"I love working with Disney because I'm so tired of making games about guys in black leather carrying guns. I don't want to make those any more," Spector told Gamasutra.

Christ, I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means. I don't mind shorter games, but if they take a grand total of 10 hours to complete, that's a rip-off.

[DXeXodus]

Originally Posted by jcp28

Christ, I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means. I don't mind shorter games, but if they take a grand total of 10 hours to complete, that's a rip-off.

Thats exactly what you think it means. We still pay between R300 and R800 (depending on your platform) for a single game. That money now goes to expensive visual effects instead of prolonged and enriched gameplay.

As I have said before, there are still some gems. Even though they are quite short they still rock! Gears of War, COD4, HL2 Episodes, etc. In a sense I dont mind a short game, but only if it is of a high quality in terms of gameplay, controls, graphics, etc all together. Its like a good movie, except it cost like a million times more.

DX, however, is not a type of game that can be crammed into 10 hours IMO. A DX game should be intricate and involved on many levels that overlap and work with one another. Time is needed to build characters and deep stories. DX3 should at least be a 20 hour core game, excluding any side missions.

[gamer0004]

Originally Posted by AgnosticJive

Addendum to my side note: My previous "knowledge" of the Tomb Raider: Underworld being powered by the same engine as Deus Ex 3 came from before further development had taken place, apparently at this point in time Underworld is using a brand new engine made specifically for the game and is not in fact the same engine, Deus Ex 3 using a more outdated and aged engine. Sad news for me =/.

I thought that D'Astous said that that DX3 was going to use the next-gen TR:U engine.

[Deevian]

Hell just froze.

[foxberg]

The society becomes dumber and lazier. They don't want to think or try hard. They want everything to be easy. Three cheers to Halo for not having a God mode! Playing DX was like living a parallel life. I don't mind having a 50 hour game though, as long as they release new mission packs ever other month!

[Romeo]

I am going to get BEATEN for this, but maybe we can hope Spectre isn't in charge of DX3 now... His current outlook may be ignored, and perhaps someone with a new vision could contribute something to the series...

[AgnosticJive]

Originally Posted by Romeo

I am going to get BEATEN for this, but maybe we can hope Spectre isn't in charge of DX3 now... His current outlook may be ignored, and perhaps someone with a new vision could contribute something to the series...

Ummm...Spector barely had a hand in IW, he hasn't even touched the building that Deus Ex 3 is being developed in, so assuming he's going to have anything to do with any eidos game is just stupidity.

Originally Posted by gamer0004

I thought that D'Astous said that that DX3 was going to use the next-gen TR:U engine.

Alas,so did I,and when I saw the most recent screen-shots from Underworld I was put a little more at ease, however it appears that "the Senior Producer and External Designer separately confirmed that Underworld uses an all-new engine that was built especially for it." Whereas Deus Ex 3 "has been confirmed that the game will be developed using the Crystal Dynamics Engine, which was originally used for the games Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Legend and Project: Snowblind" an outdated and spotty (at best) engine that shouldn't still exist.
Sadly I've never been impressed by any eidos project (Deus Ex not counting since it was not really developed by eidos) so me even saying what I did about how Underworld looks took a lot from me...why not just be canadian buddies and give deus ex to Ubisoft Montreal who thoroughly impressed me with Assassins Creed and showed they can do the FPS part with Rainbow Six Vegas.

[serene_chaos]

well, this says that DX3 is using the old engine, but theyre going to develop it more. It also mentions that DX3 wont be using the latest Unreal engine (obviously), which kinda disappoints me a little. I mean, DX used the first incarnation of Unreal, IW used the second, DX3 should use the third to, you know, complete the circle.
It seems to me like not using a current engine is a little bit tabboo, and to be honest, i'd like to see DX on an awesome engine. I like the id Tech 4 engine (doom 3), partly because it runs on my computer and still looks good. I don't like the Havok engine (parent of TES:Oblivion and Source), and havnt played anything on the 3rd Unreal.
So, right now i'm half expecting Blade Hunter to open a poll about this.

[AgnosticJive]

They aren't using any outside engines they would have to license because they wanna keep everything in house, they think it would be easier to push an old shït engine past it's breaking point because they are more familiar with it and they don't have to shell out extra money for a decent engine. (by the way,havok is just a physics engine, source is the actual game engine.)

Point is, Deus Ex 3 basically already looks outdated. Awesome.

[Chemix]

It is the way of humanity that the old always remark that the world or a "world" will die with them, as who knows how it will turn out without those who birthed it, it's a scary thought, one that is often dismissed by another thought along the lines of, "they can't do it without me". The cost of movie making is insanely high, yet movies are still made. They aren't half hour long episodes, they're full feature length, 1 hour 25 minute minimum, films. Games will vary in length, as they always have, but in the end, no one is going to pay for anything that doesn't last atleast 2 hours, $20 for 4 hours, and $50 for anything higher.

In short, long adventure games will not die just because Spector thinks they will.

[jcp28]

Maybe not die, but the industry model has been changing for a while to allow greater profiy by making more shorter games instead of a small amount of long ones.

On the subject of the engine: Look on the bright side. Graphics have come a long way since Deus Ex was released, so this game hopefully won't look too bad. I feel your pain as far how it'll stack up against bigger-name games, graphics-wise

[Romeo]

As much as I appreciate graphical prowess, I would much prefer resources dedicated to gameplay and story...

[v.dog]

Originally Posted by jcp28

Christ, I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means. I don't mind shorter games, but if they take a grand total of 10 hours to complete, that's a rip-off.

Guess you've never played Portal.

Shorter games are the way to go I think, as technology has made us busier (albeit not more productive)- a lot of people just don't have the time to invest in long games anymore. I'm finding just that; as I get older, other things have become more important- both from a financial and and chronological standpoint.

Smaller games (like Portal) can also be more innovative; spend less on development, and you've got less to loose if it all goes pear-shaped (this why most big budget games are part of a franchise or a well worn genre).

Short games are only a rip-off if they publishers make you pay full price.

[AgnosticJive]

Originally Posted by v.dog

Guess you've never played Portal.

Shorter games are the way to go I think, as technology has made us busier (albeit not more productive)- a lot of people just don't have the time to invest in long games anymore. I'm finding just that; as I get older, other things have become more important- both from a financial and and chronological standpoint.

Smaller games (like Portal) can also be more innovative; spend less on development, and you've got less to loose if it all goes pear-shaped (this why most big budget games are part of a franchise or a well worn genre).

Short games are only a rip-off if they publishers make you pay full price.

You seem to be basing alot of this on portal, which didn't spend too long in development because it was basically already developed for them by the time they started working on the game. Again, portal is one example of an innovative small game, but I've gotta ask you for another couple of examples, because off of the top of my head nothing comes to mind.

And to Romeo...the only real gameplay element that requires actual CPU resources is enemy AI, which in most games isn't that great, however developers have started turning to the GPU to aid in processing elements like A.I. and such, which requires one to have a graphics card capable of handling graphics and spare cycles to gameplay, which requires a decent graphics card. Do I think that Deus Ex 3 will do this? No. Eidos hasn't shown that is has the ambition or even the ability to use techniques that haven't been commonplace for five years already.

That and again...I'm for long games, I agree that as I get older I don't have as much time to play games, but I still enjoy having to work towards the end of the game, not paying $60 for a game I'll finish in two nights (or for Portal and Gears of War, one night.) If you don't have the time to play long games then either make time, quit bìtching about it, or just play it when you can, it's not like you're losing anything.