Deus Ex Inside Technology

[DXeXodus]

Originally Posted by serene_chaos

theyll have, like, windows that clean themselves. now THAT would make for a great game!

They already have windows that can clean themselves
The Future is here

[Blade_hunter]

Anyway I think we must add some futuristic features on the universe, but some things have a more ancient look than others, the castles, the museums, etc are always restored, cleaned, most buildings 50 and maybe 100 years later are always here, some streets were changed of course and their look changed but not to look more futuristic, even if some buildings become more windowed...
It's difficult to imagine the world 100 years later some things remains unchanged but some others change every decades approximatively...

[Chemix]

I think the point of cyberpunk is that we accomplish what we do today, but with advanced electronic technology underneath a modern exterior, or non modern, whichever. In a way, it's like steam punk, the same end result, but from a non-conventional means.

[Blade_hunter]

About technology and to diversify the weaponry I think to the weapon action like auto, burst, pump action, lever action etc ...

For the manual weapons we have the next things
Bolt action
Lever action
Break action (weapons without loaders of course)
Pump action

For semi automatic weapons we have
Gas operated
Recoil operated
Double action (For revolvers) I think it's a semi auto mode

For automatic guns
Recoil operated
Gas operated
Electric
Pneumatic, Hydraulic (Normally they were used for multibarrelled guns like a minigun)

And some kind of loadings I think goes to disappear but perhaps some civilians got some guns using more older technologies or perhaps they are more reliable like the revolver.

In T2 we can see a short lever action shotgun but on more actual times.
In red faction 1 we can see a break action railgun (called rail driver I think)

[DXeXodus]

Originally Posted by Blade_hunter

In red faction 1 we can see a break action railgun (called rail driver I think)

That railgun in Red Faction was one of the best guns ever in any game. Seeing and shooting through walls, one shot on kill!

[Mactypetim]

Yeah, and thats why I thought the gauss gun (or rail gun) in IW sucked so bad... I was unconsciously comparing it to Red Faction :P

[Mactypetim]

Thing felt like a bloody pea-shooter that wasted ammo rather then kill something...

[Blade_hunter]

Yeah this gun rocks but do you think it's goo to see most of these gun mechanisms on DX 3 or we must be more futuristic or just see a limited number of mechanisms.
It's rare to see break action and lever action guns most of times they are hunting guns

On more future arsenal we can see some bolt action guns (sniper rifles)
most of times we can see semi autos, with recoil operation or gas operation
some guns can be used underwater, we can see caseless ammunition for some guns the first gun I know that use this technology is the HK G11, the 4.7 mm ammo of this gun presents some advantages, actually we have some inconvenients because this ammo is less reliable as a conventional cartridge, but I think in a near future these weapons are perfect and can transport more ammo and stay light with a low recoil and a higher rate of fire.

I wanted to see all of these technologies on weapons, because it can make a better variety between weapons, all of them can present some realism.
I wanted to see if some one think if it's interesting or not to see a wide variety of weapons or not.

[Mactypetim]

Sure. The G11's burst fire would even be a useful addition for a first-strike attack in DX 3.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as42-e.htm

And, having two sniper rifles in game to choose from would be useful too. You could have a silent one to complement the game's version of the stealth pistol (Pistol would be useful at <10 meters. Sub-sonic/silenced rifle would be useful at say <80 to <100 meters)

Then you can have a bigger .50 cal rifle. Doesn't matter if its bolt action or what, just that it can kill ANYTHING human or animal you happen to have a direct line of sight with. It would be bigger then the other rifle and take more space in your pack; which reminds me of one other thing. The DX 1 inventory was better then IW, and Eidos can use that function again to force players to prioritize themselves like they had to do in the first game ("I really want that flame thrower, but I want my assault rifle more..." etc).

Also, mixing mech and nano would be a cool option to have in regards to the player's character.

Oh, and BTW... I hesitate to bring up more advanced tech 'cause of my understanding that the game will be a prequel.

[Blade_hunter]

The prequel is just a rumor
When I look to DX 2 in comparison of DX 1 we lose some technology's, the grenades loose they're mine function, we loose the plasma rifle and the sort of ammo that can take a form that seems too unrealistic for me (I don't think the ammo becomes nanites in the future it seems too versatile and unrealistic the guns, tools and the rest must have this technology too and why the ammo is the only thing that can be transformed it doesn't make any sens).
In DX 2 if the ammo is nanites the weapons are closer to the fifth element weapon we can see in the movie, multifunctional and we can change the propriety of each, the nanites from DX 2 makes the materials a sort of perfect thing that can be modeled at the desired form.
This look like the mean of building inspired by total annihilation (or supreme commander)
the uni ammo is the same system used by tron 2.0 but Tron have the disk that can avoid us to use ammo in DX 2 we have no ranged weapon thad can be used to save the ammo, no ammo = no ranged fire.
In DX 1 if one weapon is empty we can use an other

Originally Posted by Mactypetim

Also, mixing mech and nano would be a cool option to have in regards to the player's character.

Gunther, Anna Navarre, Jordan shea and others are a mix between mechs and nano tech, JC and Paul was the firsts agents technologically modified and with an human look with hidden mechanical devices.

[Mactypetim]

Thats the trick though... the nano agents weren't mechanical in any way that you would think using present-day thinking. Of course, logically speaking, nanites are mechanical but only smaller. But I'm talking in circles now :P

How about this as a comparison:

Nano agents are not necessarily stronger until they activate their mod that makes them strong, for example. Mech agents are naturally strong, and also naturally resilient against damage. Remember fighting Gunther? Hehe. I had no choice but to use lots of explosives! Or flame.

Remember how the black bio-mods in IW were supposed to be a class thing, sort of like a no-no that a GOOD agent would never think of doing? Reality was no one cared in game, so I used them whenever I wanted to. Just had to get them from a different place; big deal...

Using mech parts to augment yourself in game would give you a permanent bonus to whatever function that part served, kinda like a million-dollar man except much less subtle in appearance. In effect, using mech parts would be the easy way out... no turning on mods while still being seriously strong... but you would loose your ability to deal smoothly with the public. You would walk into the Underworld tavern and immediately be labeled many undesirable things and most would clam up.

In short: Want to be Rambo? Be a mech.

Want to have the option of using people skills? Use nano mods instead, at least for your limbs and skin. You could probably still get away with using a mech heart or somesuch.

About nanite uses: If this is a sequel, you could make it so a fully equipped nano agent could maybe morph like a T1000 from terminator 2 :P

The possibilities are endless, really.

[Blade_hunter]

I've talking about kind of players, and I think your upgrade type give you the choice to stay more organic or more mechanized, terminator have a cyberpunk style, ghost in the shell too. even if the two movies are different.

Strengths weaknesses of each race

__________________ Human ___ Robot ___ Mech mod ____ Nano ____ Mutant __ Alien
_________________________________________________ augmented
Sensibility
- Poison ____________4/5_______0/5_________1/5__________2/5_______3/5______5/5
- Radiations _________5/5_______3/5_________2/5__________3/5_______1/5______0/5
- EMP ______________0/5_______5/5_________4/5__________3/5_______0/5______1/5
- Fire _______________4/5_______2/5_________3/5__________4/5_______5/5______5/5
- Radio frequencies ___3/5_______5/5_________4/5__________3/5_______2/5______1/5
- Bashing ___________5/5_______1/5_________2/5__________4/5_______3/5______5/5
- Lethal _____________5/5_______3/5_________4/5__________5/5_______5/5______5/5
- Cold ______________4/5_______3/5_________3/5__________4/5_______5/5______2/5
- Acid ______________5/5_______4/5_________2/5__________4/5_______5/5______3/5
- Bases _____________5/5_______0/5________1/5__________4/5________3/5______2/5

Race Specs
- Strength ___________1/5_______5/5_________4/5_________2/5________3/5______2/5
- Agility _____________4/5_______1/5_________3/5_________4/5________5/5______2/5
- Endurance _________2/5_______5/5_________4/5_________3/5________3/5______4/5
- Health _____________5/5_______0/5_________4/5_________5/5________4/5______5/5
- Armor _____________0/5_______5/5_________1/5_________0/5________1/5______0/5

For killing Gunther. I kill him without guns and without the kill phrase

[Mactypetim]

Yeah, I got to where I would either use the kill-phrase so I can watch him stubbornly say "...I am NOT a machine!" just before he blew up; or plant mines on the pillar next to him and run past it after the talk-fest. Boom, again!

Too much fun!

[Blade_hunter]

The choices and the possibilities is the true strength of DX .
I attract gunther on the room with the ambrosia and the turrets kills him
The fun with this game is the fact we can create with the existing possibilities.

To come back to the main subject.
What someone think about the gun technos, and the technos used to transform our body or animals.

I DX 1 we have the mech mods; the MJ12 commandos (entire cyborgs when we shoot them they leave some blood trails); the nano augmented agents like Walton Simons; the agents like JC and paul; the MIB that explode when then die and have a sort of robotic voices; the normal humans like most people in the game; we have mechs like the different robots from the game (with legs and with wheels or other means of movement); we have some mutants like the karkians, greasels, the grays ....

I want to see the cleaner bots make a complete cycle, activating and put the trash on the trash cans and return back when they finish their work.

And some other futuristic stuff as some previous suggestions

[deus ex fan]

Originally Posted by DXeXodus

May I politely disagree with that statement. There is a very big difference between cyberpunk and futeristic levels. Cyberpunk levels are dark, gritty levels affected by humanity and their activities. Cyberpunk games feel much more down to earth than pure futuristic games. Star trek is not an example of cyberpunk and that is why levels akin to star trek (DX2) cannot be considered cyberpunk. DX 2 fell so short of that feeling of grittiness that DX1 established so well. The only time DX2 felt like a proper cyberpunk game was in lower seattle. It had a few other shining moments but they were few and far between. Its just my opinion of course, but the story in DX1 associated itself much more to this genre than the story of the sequel.

i will make more clear my opinion.I've never said that DX1 is NOT cyberpunk.I think that DX1 is LESS cyberpunk than DX2.That's what i said.Both games are cyberpunk.When you have hovering security bots in DX2,the "inclinator" that connects Upper and lower Seattle (and consequently wealth and poor),and Arcology in Cairo(New Cairo)these things reminds me blade runner movie(which is a cyberpunk movie).Tell me some elements of DX1 which could remind me blade runner's elements......(i have both DX1 and DX2 so i can make comparisons.....)

Every opinion is acceptable.Definetely there is not case of misunderstanding between you and me(as both we are DX fans).

for the other things you said regarding levels in DX2 which are cyberpunk i totally agree that Seattle levels are truly cyberpunk(e.g WTO Air Terminal)

Many people confuse Sci-Fi with cyberpunk genre.Cyberpunk is NOT Sci-fi.Star trek is sci-fi(in space).DX is cyberpunk(in earth).Cyberpunk deal with a futuristic society that it is so modernized which is almost totally computerized (in a way that people cant do without technology in their lives and many other ideas such as totalitarian governments and social reactions e.g demonstrations and anarchism elements).So Sci-fi has nothing to do with cyberpunk,with these things.And this is another point which i agree with you.Tell to people which confuse these genres to read cyberpunk novels to realize the chaotic difference between Sci-fi and cyberpunk.......

[serene_chaos]

Originally Posted by deus ex fan

.... Many people confuse Sci-Fi with cyberpunk genre.Cyberpunk is NOT Sci-fi..... (etc.)

That said, cyberpunk often inherently IS science fiction, also. being set in the future, it is almost impossible not to incorporate elements of fictitious anticipated scientific developments into a cyberpunk setting. blade runner was cyberpunk, but it was also sci-fi. sci-fi is a broad term, which cyberpunk inevitably falls under, just like "drama" (lol, drama, stupidest genre name ever).

I recently saw Children of Men, (i recommend it, by the way ) its set in the future, but not very far, so it borders on sci-fi and... not-sci-fi, but i guess you might call it cyberpunk, too. anyway, it's coincidentally set in 2027, i believe, so if that's the year of dx3, it'd be a great model.

[Blade_hunter]

Of course the cyberpunk universe is a sort of Sci-fi and go on space or got a part of the adventure in a space station that isn't sci-fi.
Why because space stations already exists, and we can do something on this.

Sci-fi is something doesn't exists and we have an explation due to this kind of technology or events.
the nano augmented agents and human clones are Sci fi on today's, when we clone an human this become science.
Sci fi and true science in some domains are very close because we try to find the way to acquire some unexisting technologies, like the flat screens ,the holograms, the mech augmentations etc.
some technologies as I mentioned already exists, but in a certain period of time they was Sci fi and some technologies stays already Sci-fi.
Some technologies already exists, but they are used only by the army or by scientists.
Some technologies envolved for these industries become public because we can find an use like some wears, electronic devices, etc.
Sci fi must be logical even if the invented theory is false or doesn't exists like for example the time machine or make hyperspeed travels.
the "fantastic" genre doesn't needs to be logical a creature or a mutant with an unknown origin or some surnaturals events don't need a true explanation or the fact we must be logical.

Make a true sci fi needs to be logical and imagine the future with what way the technos will take
what is the gun of the future, what is the home of the future, the shops, the means of transportation, the ressources used as fuel, what is the role of some countries, Cyberpunk universe is a sci fi universe.
Cyberpunk is a futuristic style, with the fact the human will take some mech ablities and apearances. like Terminator when we sew Arnold Schwarzenegger, with an half machine face and an half human face.
Is for that reason Cyberpunk is a Sci fi universe, I think a good universe to see is the Ghost in the shell universe.
That is very close to DX universe in some facts.

[deus ex fan]

Originally Posted by Blade_hunter

Of course the cyberpunk universe is a sort of Sci-fi and go on space or got a part of the adventure in a space station that isn't sci-fi.
Why because space stations already exists, and we can do something on this.

Sci-fi is something doesn't exists and we have an explation due to this kind of technology or events.
the nano augmented agents and human clones are Sci fi on today's, when we clone an human this become science.
Sci fi and true science in some domains are very close because we try to find the way to acquire some unexisting technologies, like the flat screens ,the holograms, the mech augmentations etc.
some technologies as I mentioned already exists, but in a certain period of time they was Sci fi and some technologies stays already Sci-fi.
Some technologies already exists, but they are used only by the army or by scientists.
Some technologies envolved for these industries become public because we can find an use like some wears, electronic devices, etc.
Sci fi must be logical even if the invented theory is false or doesn't exists like for example the time machine or make hyperspeed travels.
the "fantastic" genre doesn't needs to be logical a creature or a mutant with an unknown origin or some surnaturals events don't need a true explanation or the fact we must be logical.

Make a true sci fi needs to be logical and imagine the future with what way the technos will take
what is the gun of the future, what is the home of the future, the shops, the means of transportation, the ressources used as fuel, what is the role of some countries, Cyberpunk universe is a sci fi universe.
Cyberpunk is a futuristic style, with the fact the human will take some mech ablities and apearances. like Terminator when we sew Arnold Schwarzenegger, with an half machine face and an half human face.
Is for that reason Cyberpunk is a Sci fi universe, I think a good universe to see is the Ghost in the shell universe.
That is very close to DX universe in some facts.

according to wikipedia cyberpunk is a Sci-fi genre.Take a look at it.

"cyberpunk"


i still believe that cyberpunk has to do with just a fictious futuristic(futuristic is not appropriate sci-fi)version of our world and has nothing to do with sci-fi.Sci-fi is very deep future.The term sci-fi involves spaceships,alien tribes,with a technology that is out of our world,and whatever occurs in space.I dont understand why cyberpunk is a subgenre of sci-fi,or at least why is related to this term.The year 2027 is not sci-fi,the year 125120653 is sci-fi.With this logic "star wars" and "star trek" would be cyberpunk films.But they aren't.Why movies like "blade runner" or "gattaca" or "children of men" or "1984" or "clockwork orange" refer also as sci-fi films?(except that they are cyberpunk films of course)

[serene_chaos]

Originally Posted by deus ex fan

i still believe that cyberpunk has to do with just a fictious futuristic(futuristic is not appropriate sci-fi)version of our world and has nothing to do with sci-fi.Sci-fi is very deep future.The term sci-fi involves spaceships,alien tribes,with a technology that is out of our world,and whatever occurs in space.I dont understand why cyberpunk is a subgenre of sci-fi,or at least why is related to this term.The year 2027 is not sci-fi,the year 125120653 is sci-fi.With this logic "star wars" and "star trek" would be cyberpunk films.But they aren't.Why movies like "blade runner" or "gattaca" or "children of men" or "1984" or "clockwork orange" refer also as sci-fi films?(except that they are cyberpunk films of course)

you have to look at the root meaning of "sci-fi". "science fiction" simply refers to any story where fictitious scientific or technological advancements make up part of the story. I once saw a film called "The Time Machine" (i think), about a guy in the 19th century who built a time machine. That, even though it was set a hundred years ago (for the first part of the film, at least), is a science fiction movie. Cyberpunk automatically falls into the category of sci-fi because of the "cyber". compare to steampunk.
Also, if you're wondering why star wars and star trek are not considered cyberpunk, it's because of the "punk" part. cyberpunk (and steampunk) refers explicitly to dystopic settings. (or is it dystopian?)

P.S. sorry if i'm preaching to the converted.

[Blade_hunter]

Star wars have a sort of cyberpunk, when we take a look to darth vader he was completely transformed in a machine, but star wars is more "fantastic" than Sci fi even if we have a technology insinde these technologies we most of times illogical and the spirit thing called the Force makes the Star wars series more a sort of fantastic genre than a Sci-fi genre.
Superman have some technolgy the IA called "Braingnac" and the city metropolis that got some futuristic things like the "Luthor corp" labs but Superman is more a "Fantastic" genre than an other even if we have an Half man/machine
Star trek is more Sci fi without be cyberpunk, but I don't know everything related to Star trek.

But perhaps some of us doesn't know the true definition of the Cyberpunk genre.

But I've right on some therms compared to the Wikipedia definition even if my own definition

The year 2027 is Sci fi, because we can envolve unexisting technos for this year that doesn't exists on today's

An orbital elevator is Sci fi.
Go to the Mars planet too, because we sent only machines.
Go on a space station is realistic because it exists.

We can imagine a Sci fi universe close to our days as far.

[deus ex fan]

Originally Posted by serene_chaos

you have to look at the root meaning of "sci-fi". "science fiction" simply refers to any story where fictitious scientific or technological advancements make up part of the story. I once saw a film called "The Time Machine" (i think), about a guy in the 19th century who built a time machine. That, even though it was set a hundred years ago (for the first part of the film, at least), is a science fiction movie. Cyberpunk automatically falls into the category of sci-fi because of the "cyber". compare to steampunk.
Also, if you're wondering why star wars and star trek are not considered cyberpunk, it's because of the "punk" part. cyberpunk (and steampunk) refers explicitly to dystopic settings. (or is it dystopian?)

P.S. sorry if i'm preaching to the converted.

you dont preach to the converted,maybe I have a mistake.Generally speaking,these genres are somewhat relevant so its difficult for somebody to make a clear "statement" about which elements define cyberpunk and sci-fi.......

i've just think that cyberpunk accidentally(?) refers as a sci-fi genre..........(i mean that maybe it isn't)

(i think that)it is a whole independent genre.

[deus ex fan]

Originally Posted by serene_chaos

you have to look at the root meaning of "sci-fi". "science fiction" simply refers to any story where fictitious scientific or technological advancements make up part of the story. I once saw a film called "The Time Machine" (i think), about a guy in the 19th century who built a time machine. That, even though it was set a hundred years ago (for the first part of the film, at least), is a science fiction movie. Cyberpunk automatically falls into the category of sci-fi because of the "cyber". compare to steampunk.
Also, if you're wondering why star wars and star trek are not considered cyberpunk, it's because of the "punk" part. cyberpunk (and steampunk) refers explicitly to dystopic settings. (or is it dystopian?)

P.S. sorry if i'm preaching to the converted.

and for steampunk,steampunk is more optimistic/less dystopian than-totally-dystopian cyberpunk.........

[serene_chaos]

Originally Posted by deus ex fan

and for steampunk,steampunk is more optimistic/less dystopian than-totally-dystopian cyberpunk.........

how do you figure that? the only difference, semantically, is the 'cyber' and 'steam' parts of the terms, which refer to the level of technology.

[iWait]

Words used to convey thoughts, ideas. If I said gloooblybloobla to convey a sense of need for something, and got everyone to use it, in 50 years the official meaning for Gloooblybloobla would be "To need." We use etymology (Is that right?) to help understand the meaning of words by finding the past meanings of their parts. Some words like "chicken" and the infamous "N word" cannot be defined by their parts, rather their meaning was taken from past languages.

Another thing, Thermoptic Camo was taken from real life. You can use a thermal blanket right now to remain undetected by the lower-end thermal cameras. By the way, In The Terminator Arnold isn't a cyborg, he's a machine with organic skin grafted over his metal, a cyborg incorporates organic and machine parts into itself to serve a vital purpose, since Arnold's skin serves no real purpose he is not a cyborg.

And I have to add, Star Trek was cyberpunk at times, anybody remember the ruined planet with the messed up children survivors? And the tribbles....... I love the tribbles. Even if they weren't cyberpunk or sci fi they still kicked ass.

[deus ex fan]

Originally Posted by serene_chaos

how do you figure that? the only difference, semantically, is the 'cyber' and 'steam' parts of the terms, which refer to the level of technology.

read wikipedia's article here