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Thread: Interface, hud, icons, ergonomics

  1. #76
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    Nah dude, your character doesn't shove everything into his Pip Boy now does he? It's just a neat way of presenting the inventory/ character page is all...

  2. #77
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    I'm not sure I like Pip Boy. Using PDAs for menus has gotten WAY to popular lately. I blame Doom III. I think that's where the trend started.

    Having it as an aug hard-wired into the brain would work much better. I think this is what DX HUD was hinting at, with info link, targeting system, and everything.

  3. #78
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    Yeah that would work too. I just liked how the Pip Boy felt like it was real and part of your character and not just some random generic menu.

  4. #79
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    I agree the menu's were fiddly but what was wrong with DX2's HUD exactly?

    It's slightly awkwardly arranged in a circle (monitors aren't round. I know, it was meant to be retinal) but the basic arrangement and functionality was OK I thought.

    I preferred the fullsize compass. The tiny corner one is u/s. Waypoints would have been nice. The inventory icons at the edges and set to fade out I liked. Having a big block of stuff at the top or bottom is kind of obstructing.

    I'd probably copy HL2's simple ammo indicator on or near the crosshair.

    The health and energy bars are kind of way in the corners but I'm not sure where else you put them unless you have them just inside the inventory and implant icons.

    Everything should fade out or minimise if it has no information to display.

    The colour scheme options are nice.

    Letting the player drag stuff around and select options would be really cool although also really non-essential.

    System Shock had a pretty good HUD if I recall.
    Last edited by spm1138; 11-04-2008 at 09:57 PM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by spm1138 View Post
    It's slightly awkwardly arranged in a circle (monitors aren't round. I know, it was meant to be retinal) but the basic arrangement and functionality was OK I thought.
    That round shape is precisely why the basic arrangement was NOT okay. It forced a huge amount of the UI into the players' direct field of vision, as opposed to being tucked away in the corners like most games have the common sense to do. Even with the auto-hide option enabled, it made the game feel like you were playing it looking through a tube.

    The cherry on top of IW's stupidity is that an actual in-your-head HUD would *not* be eyeball-shaped, since the only way for something like that to work would be to tap directly into your optic nerve. IW's interface designer seemed to think that Alex had a tiny little projector embedded in the back of his eyeball.

  6. #81
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    I'm not all for it but i'd be cool if they added a flavour of minimalistic approach.

    Since the game is trying to corect what DX2 did and doing it so in DX spiritual way, some improvments of DX systems should be done, say... 2D animated menus, like in the movie Minority Report with Tom Cruise:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-CFJ...eature=related

    And there was a movie with Michael Douglas..i think it's "Disclosure", in a similar way, but he was wearing a 3D helmet and a handglove, the moment i refer to is when he's putting on all that gear and entering a digital virtual reality world merely to get to a filing cabinet to open drawers to read documents -- a filing cabinet that computer technology was supposed to replace

    So I like a menu in that spirit, more in like Minority Report way, but to be more uniterruptive for outsides. AJ should see animated menus in his eyes/head, and not from some hidden projection that open from inside his head.

    Heck, If at year 2027 we don't need the reptile part of the brain, they can freely install the projector there and with series of mirrors sticking from charactes side like Inspector Gadget, lead the projection to our front.

    Inspector Gadget????? I wish only for the 3d version of AJ, to look cooler that that IG guy, pfff
    Last edited by Lazarus Ledd; 11-04-2008 at 11:09 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    That round shape is precisely why the basic arrangement was NOT okay. It forced a huge amount of the UI into the players' direct field of vision, as opposed to being tucked away in the corners like most games have the common sense to do. Even with the auto-hide option enabled, it made the game feel like you were playing it looking through a tube.

    The cherry on top of IW's stupidity is that an actual in-your-head HUD would *not* be eyeball-shaped, since the only way for something like that to work would be to tap directly into your optic nerve. IW's interface designer seemed to think that Alex had a tiny little projector embedded in the back of his eyeball.
    The same arrangement square works much better.

    I never really felt like I was playing through a tube on PC but I agree inventory, inactive augs, phone etc. should be at the edges of the screen. I like the thin side placement better than the chunk at the top bottom.

    You actually want some vital information right where you can see it:
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita..._020410_09.jpg

    Particularly combat relevant stuff.

    I agree IW's had too much extra stuff visible all the time.

  8. #83
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    Just keep it simple and functional please.



    System Shock 2 was even simpler...

    Last edited by GmanPro; 11-05-2008 at 10:19 AM.

  9. #84
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    well
    1. i like the dx1 health body metre i hate regeno health its lame because rewards standing in a corner merely draws out game play where as metre increase risk reward aspects of game play.
    2.the ridik games lack of hud was cool
    3. don't if many people have played it but there's game series on ps2 called armoured core which had a very cool customizable HUD (sadly this feature less prevalent in the 360/ps3 versions)
    4. there's whole enhanced reality scientific / technology theory bouncing around for few years now some integration of this idea would be nice

  10. #85
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    Well if we assume a regenerative health model, then theres no need for a health bar on the HUD, so that eliminates that. We're left with the basics of augs and ammo. I'd imagine since they said each weapon has its OWN TYPE of ammo specifically, that no image or indicator is needed for the gun, simple numbers. IE clip occupancy, and reserve. Relatively easy, bottom left corner, pretty standard. Two numbers that light up in an LED fashion.

    Next you have the augs which MIGHT NOT BE AS SIMPLE as the augs in DX1 and 2, with a simple symbol indicating the aug. I hope this is the case, because its a much more elegant solution, displaying the augs in a bar down the top right side. If not, EM might have its own HUD for augs.

    The only thing left is the compass and bioelectric energy. BE is probably most easily represented as a bar below the ammo count in the bottom left, and the compass could PROBABLY be in the top center (DX:IW) or bottom center (Oblivion) Would be nice for an option of selection on that? HINT HINT????


    Over all could be a VERY minimal HUD, which is a good thing. The key here is customization. Since its mostly numerical, EM could EASILY provide a slider for choosing hue and opacity and I hope this is the case. I for one would probably choose orange (:P)

  11. #86
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    Just because they are going through with auto heal, doesn't mean that there wont be a health bar.

    Although, with auto heal, there really isn't any point to having localized damage, because it's just going to heal back after the fight it over.

    This decision by EM is looking worse every day... They need to look at Fallout 3 if they are such big fans of Bethesda, and KEEP the health the way it was. I personally had loads of fun searching around the place for stimpacks and food in Fallout 3.

  12. #87
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    You people seem dead-set on this idea that auto-heal can only be done one way, and that it can only be done in the worst way possible. Way to be creative!

    Has anybody considered how health regen could be localized, or how it could only heal a certain amount?

  13. #88
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    Well, every time I've suggested that it might only heal you a little bit, everyone gets all angry. And when they said that they don't want the players to search for medkits, I thought they made it pretty clear that the auto heal would take you back to full.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by GmanPro View Post
    Well, every time I've suggested that it might only heal you a little bit, everyone gets all angry. And when they said that they don't want the players to search for medkits, I thought they made it pretty clear that the auto heal would take you back to full.
    They only get angry because they refuse to consider that their notions might not be right.

    I never read that it would take you back to full. Where did you see that?

  15. #90
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    I never read that either, but if there aren't going to be any medkits, then how are you the player supposed to get back to full health? And if there ARE medkits, then why would they say that they don't want the players to spend time running around the map looking for them?

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by GmanPro View Post
    I never read that either, but if there aren't going to be any medkits, then how are you the player supposed to get back to full health? And if there ARE medkits, then why would they say that they don't want the players to spend time running around the map looking for them?
    Maybe the idea was to make it so that a bit less time was wasted searching the maps for every last little bit of health the player could find. I remember that in DX some sections got unbearably slow because I had to scrounge up every last soda can and soy packet after a big firefight.

  17. #92
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    That's awesome though!!!

    It's completely optional to do that because you could just go to a medbot to get back to full health. Or flip on the regeneration aug.

    Fallout 3 has stimpacks and all sorts of food everywhere. It's readily available though, you can usually find some on pretty much every enemy you kill, and its all over the place in fridges and places like that.

    Also, Fallout 3 has water you can drink (although most of it is irradiated, and so is the food), and places where you can sleep to get back to full health.

    Bottom line is that Fallout 3 approached the situation the RIGHT way by simply providing the player with an abundance of options to get yourself healed, and EM is going about it the WRONG way, the quick fix way of auto heal. Pheh!!!

  18. #93
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    Maybe.

    Maybe I can put the fear of poorly done auto-heal to rest in March.

  19. #94
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    It will be fun to see how creative EM can get about keeping the HUD as small as possible.

    I personally like the idea of having the guns display how much ammo they have, although this idea really only works in a futuristic sci-fi type setting. Perfect for a Deus Ex game but not so much for a Fallout type.

    Fable 2 doesn't have any HUD. But I think that DX3 needs some sort of HUD, at least due to retinal augs.

    Basically EM, if you think that the guys on the forum probably aren't going to like it, then chances are that we won't...

    Classic Half Life hud is one of my favorites

    Last edited by GmanPro; 11-05-2008 at 10:42 PM.

  20. #95
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    thing is with regen health doesnt make sense to me makes more sense in dx1/2 with nanite tech i find strange lumps damage metal attached to your body suddenly get better im mean uh like idea that limbs get the f*** battered out of them.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by murphy7801 View Post
    thing is with regen health doesnt make sense to me makes more sense in dx1/2 with nanite tech i find strange lumps damage metal attached to your body suddenly get better im mean uh like idea that limbs get the f*** battered out of them.
    And this is exactly why this forum needs a breathalyzer.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    And this is exactly why this forum needs a breathalyzer.
    I think what he/she means is that it does not make sense for metal mechanical Augs to automatically heal.

  23. #98
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    The HL hud is the simpliest HUD for FPS games, but we know only the minimal stuff, the SS2 HUD is much better and fitted to DX but I think for a game like DX Adventure,FPS/RPG, we need informations, for a game of this kind.

    A Hud like Quake 2 / HL is often unapropriate, simple but unapropriate for DX the first DX Hud displays many informations like the weapons in the belt, their ammo loaded or the number of the items in the case of consumables / throwing and other disposable items that can be carried in the same space, their quick key in the belt
    when an item is selected we know what is the current ammo or the weapon we have the weapon picture the ammo loaded and the clips if the weapon have clips.
    We have the biomod bar that indicates what is the active or not and what are the installed biomods
    For the health we have the oxygen level the Bio energy and the colored body parts, we have the compass in the lower part and the damage indicator in the lawer part of the compass indicates the damage type if it's electric, radioactive and poison and the filtering level if we use a suit or a mod

    the problem with some Huds like DX 2 / snowblind is more the icon size and placement than the amount of informations displayed on the screen, to create a hud some questions must be asked.

    How much informations we need to see ? (only essentials health / ammo or more)
    Where is the best place to put it (top, bottom, in a corner , close the te crosshir if we have one, etc ...)
    What is their size and form
    What we use to prompt them (icons / numbers letters, picture, etc)

    for me the HUD must be interactive for example by clicking on the Hud icons,
    Int the DX HUD
    On the health zone we can use medkits or the biocells to heal a body part or rechage the Bioenergy
    click on the tool belt to select a weapon,
    click on the biomod bar to activate a mod, click on the weapon icon to change ammo
    something like this

    But I think a too light HUD in therms of information isn't very good but if we have a lot of them don't make it intrusive or too big icons, many console games have a bad quality HUDs because their icons are too big :/

  24. #99
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    I like the neocron hud.

  25. #100
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    It would be a good HUD, if the art style wasn't so eye-clawingly busy.

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