Two Questions

[Turel99]

1 - How did Kain know at the end of Soul Reaver 2 that is was Raziel who was going to ressurect Janos. As far as i am aware i believe Janos doesnt tell Kain how he was ressurected in BO2, i mean thats one of the things defiance was for right?

2 - Why is Moebius so keen for Raz to pick up the Reaver with Malek? Surely he knows that it is Raziels destiny at that time without Kains interference to kill himself in his human form and THEN be absorbed. Raziel touching the reaver before killing himself and being absorbed would surely mess history up badly, since Raz could never have been made??

[The DarkOne]

Originally Posted by Turel99

1 - How did Kain know at the end of Soul Reaver 2 that is was Raziel who was going to ressurect Janos. As far as i am aware i believe Janos doesnt tell Kain how he was ressurected in BO2, i mean thats one of the things defiance was for right?

Kain was watching Raziel in SR2, he probably saw wraith Raziel asking human Raziel about the whereabouts of the Heart of Darkness before their battle.

Originally Posted by Turel99

2 - Why is Moebius so keen for Raz to pick up the Reaver with Malek? Surely he knows that it is Raziels destiny at that time without Kains interference to kill himself in his human form and THEN be absorbed. Raziel touching the reaver before killing himself and being absorbed would surely mess history up badly, since Raz could never have been made??

The Reaver would not devour Raziel's soul until it had killed a lot of victims (in this case; Raziel's brethren), as Raziel said in SR2:" It devoured the souls of its victims... And if I allowed it to become over-aroused, the Reaver would now turn its hunger on me."

[Turel99]

So Moebius wanted Raz to pick it up becuse he knew about what was soon going to happen to Raziel after his fight with the Priests?

And Also, why is it that raziel was destined to become trapped in the reaver and become part of it. When it turns on him, why doesnt it simply devour his soul like it does everyone else?

[Zangetsu101]

Because the ravenous soul in the reaver being Raziel cannot devour its ownself ya see.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

That's actually a good point about the Reaver. I used to just assume that the Wraith Blade was part of what made the Reaver absorb Raziel, but in Defiance, it seems that the sword itself is taking in Raziel.

[Turel99]

Now i think, the answer to my question is simple. The sword doesnt eat his soul cos it didnt yet have that ability. It only gets that ability because raziel has that ability. The version of the sword that he picks up from Williams Tomb in sr2 only has the blood sucking ability i believe, because raziel isnt in it yet.

So why does the sword turn on Raziel and absorb him even though it doesnt yet have that ability at the end of sr2? It seems that the sword itself is just destined to do it, for whatever reason.

[Raina Audron]

you are forgetting something:
Raziel´s WB was disabled when encountering Moebius which allowed Raziel to wield the BR and that goes untill the end.
At the end, the WB coils around the BR causing it to turn against Raziel...Even in Defiance the WB was there and dragged Raziel into the Blood Reaver.

[Zangetsu101]

Well as Ariel has put it, raziel must bring back together what has been broken asunder right?

The Blood Reaver and Wraith Blade are 'broken' pieces of the same thing, when fused together they become what I can only assume to be what they 'originally' were....hey weird does that mean Raziel was in the sword before the ancients? lol

[Raina Audron]

Originally Posted by Zangetsu101

.hey weird does that mean Raziel was in the sword before the ancients? lol

no, how could he??? it was only a Blood Reaver back then.
it became the SR only at the end of Defiance.

[The DarkOne]

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

That's actually a good point about the Reaver. I used to just assume that the Wraith Blade was part of what made the Reaver absorb Raziel, but in Defiance, it seems that the sword itself is taking in Raziel.

True, in Defiance the sword itself was taking Raziel in because he escaped it before in SR2, and since history tends to oppose any change, it tends to pull Raziel into the Reaver so that his original destiny (that of SR2) would be accomplished.

Originally Posted by Turel99

Now i think, the answer to my question is simple. The sword doesnt eat his soul cos it didnt yet have that ability. It only gets that ability because raziel has that ability. The version of the sword that he picks up from Williams Tomb in sr2 only has the blood sucking ability i believe, because raziel isnt in it yet.

So why does the sword turn on Raziel and absorb him even though it doesnt yet have that ability at the end of sr2? It seems that the sword itself is just destined to do it, for whatever reason.

If you remember, in SR2 Raziel's wraithblade is what repaired the broken reaver, and at that moment Raziel wielded the soul reaver (which is soul devouring mind you ) but it didn't pull Raziel in, so its not the blade which pulls Raziel in, its the wraith blade, cuz as we see the Wraith blade becomes symbiotic as soon as Raziel drops the Blood Reaver after threatening Moebius with the Soul Reaver..........complicated, eh?

[Turel99]

very, whatever you just said went right over my head. So the broken sword in williams tomb at the start of SR2 IS the Soul reaver already before Raz even picks it up? Its the 1 Wiliam fought Kain with right, so its not jus a blood reaver.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

If it wasn't the Soul Reaver then the paradox wouldn't occur.

[Turel99]

Omg i am so thick ive been getting confused cos i fought the sword he killed Human Raz with at the end is the william reaver. I am just now remembering he kills the sarafan with the Janos Reaver, god i am stupid, sorry.

So does that mean somehow ther will be two reavers in the future i dont see how its gonna work.

1- the reaver that Kain has in defiance then eventually is broken in sr1 over raziels face
2- the reaver given to william by moebius, maybe stolen from Kain in a future unseen time, which raziel picks up at the start of sr1.

What eventully happens to that 2nd 1 by the way, i forget. Raziel fixes it, but he cant wield it or otherwise he wouldnt be able to wield the blood reaver from janos at the end.

[The Hylden]

Raina was correct, yet everyone ignored her.

The Wraith Blade still IS pulling Raziel into the Reaver in Defiance.

In Avernus, he's being pulled from his right hand, which wields the Wraith Blade, over Kain's body and into the blade. It's the Wraith Blade that's doing this. The physical sword is no where near him to do so.

At the end of Defiance, the purified Wraith Blade is simultaneously going into Kain to heal him AND is snaking down his right arm to the hilt of the sword.

Don't believe me? Check out the pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...n/CA4P2Z09.jpg

Using vampmaster's camera trainer, you can clearly see this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...n/CA4P810F.jpg

After Raziel lets go, even, the Wraith Blade still remains slinking down Kain's arm to pull its former self, Raziel, into the physical sword.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...n/CAC9UBKD.jpg

It disappears completely once the deed is done.