Magic and Spells in Nosgoth

[Ranmyaku]

I was thinking upon the strange things that Nosgoth seems to have. It's history or timeline is rather strong and it seems about each time period has it's own types of magic and such.

For Blood Omen, there are the spells, items, blood fountains, and wraith forges. And the Save points.

For Blood Omen 2, there are Dark Gifts, and Lore Boxes. And the Glyph magic of the Sarafan.

For Soul Reaver, there are the Glyph spells, Eldritch energy, and of course, the abilities gained from devouring the souls of your brethren.

For Soul Reaver 2, there are the Reaver Forges, and fonts. And the altered Save Points.

Yet each is never mentioned in any other time, to our knowledge, and if one type of magic shows up in another game, it is vastly changed. Such as the save points from BO, which make a neat appearence in SR2.

Perhaps, that as time passes in Nosgoth, the land and it's magic changes to suit the needs of whoever happens to be an active participent in the fate of Nosgoth.

Something to ponder on, eh?

[DMK_Azrael]

Maybe that's linked to the pillars?
Seriously i don't know. And the save points on SR2 are very similiar to the ones on BO1, even the claw looking symbol is equal to BO1...

[Umah Bloodomen]

Interesting topic indeed...

What if we "delve" a little deeper and propose that the reason none of the instances/spells etc. were mentioned in every game in the series was due to the fact that someone didn't want them to be mentioned?

What I am trying to get at is that it is clearly obvious the "outside" forces influencing the land of Nosgoth.

1. Could someone actually be concealing the instances/spells etc. of the SR set from Kain in order to ensure his demise at the hands of Raziel?

2. We already know that Raziel is being directed like a puppet into finding the spells/instances etc of SR, I think that this "direction" also prevents him from learning of the lore energy and whatnot of the BO series. It would keep Raziel thinking in the past as his role as a Vamp lieutenant, not moving forward and fufilling his duty as the soul reaver. (Pretty much make him too cocky to do what he's supposed to do).

Kain is a relatively bright individual. He knows something is up and yet hasn't been able to probe fully into it. Naturally if Kain had access to the instances/spells of SR, he would become virtually unstoppable.

Kain has not mentioned Squiddy at all. Perhaps it is Squiddy concealing everything. I don't think Moebius has the power to conceal everything like that, although I think he played a big part in it.

Another suspect in this concealing theory is Janos Audron himself.
He is the only one other than Squiddy who would have that power to hide and show things at will. Janos strives on preserving Nosgoth and no offense, Kain hasn't calmed his arrogance enough to accept that and ensure Janos' will prevails. If I were Janos, I would make sure Kain couldn't have access to the same instances/spells etc. as Raziel was either. Right now in the series, there is too much risk involved with Kain wanting to find his "puppet masters" and get his revenge.

I hope this made some sense...forgive the ramblings.

[Jedilvr]

What I've always wondered is the connection between the Glyph energy of BO2 and the Glyph energy of SR1. If I'm correct in assuming that Glyph energy comes from the Hylden, which would make sence since all the Glyphs in SR1 are used to kill Vamps, then Raz. has powers from everywhere. He has the Hylden Glyph powers, the Vampire "Dark Gifts" he took form his dead brethren, and he has the abilities and powers of being the Soul Reaving entity that he is.

[Ranmyaku]

I thought it was a time thing. As the land is currupted the current ways of magic are lost and new ones are being uncovered.

After all, the land is clearing having problems at the beginning of SR, with the earthquakes. (even though there is only one ) And with the earth quakes, the wraith forges could have been covered up by them, or by the destruction by Kain's first vampire army.

Perhaps the elemental glyphs in SR were an ancient Hylden test. Sorta like a step towards the Ward Gates and Glyph Armor of the Sarafan. A beta version if you will.
But they were lost in the stream of time, and were uncovered by the natural forces plaguing Nosgoth's future.

Though it doesn't explain the appearence of Nupraptor in the Force Glyph area. Silly me. ^^;

[chinese-soul-eater]

Im thinkin that its all put there to make raziel the ultimate killing machine

unfortunately he knows what they are tryin to de and he dosent seem to fall for their tricks anymore

[Ranmyaku]

I don't doubt that.

I'm more curious as to HOW all the magic and such got there then the why.

[L_Master562]

It seems most humans beside pillar guardians were inept to magic anyways besides a few powerful people of which Elzevir comes to mind. Most aren't smart as it is to start with. They are just peasents. I think that Glyphs may be an early version of the Hylden technology that were planted by the Hylden in the Sr era to help Raziel go on his path to the paradox that could change everything and even scare the great Kain. I hope the glyphs come back. I find it odd that Kain is a vampire and a hylden cross breed. He was raised by vampiric necromancy magic by a pillar guardian who served a pillar created by the ancients. Wouldn't that mean that he is and isn't a true vampire by the ancient's magic recreating Hylden magic. It was vampiric energy in a way by the ancients becoming the vampires after a curse that was of Hylden magic that Mortainious recreated. It just is sorta odd. Then again, Kain fed on the blood of Vampires (Vorador's mantion) and Hylden alike meaning that he has the true bloods of both ancient races anyways coursing through his vains. It is confusing in itself. Kain did also use the blood fountains, being blood of ages meaning as they are old they could also be ancient blood as well. Kain was the oddest charector when it comes to being a hybrid of all these things. Magic creating the greatest figure in the series with the ability to conquer all means something about the magic went right.

[Jedilvr]

Possible Spoilers



I just went back and played SR2 for the umteenth time and found something that might support Ranmyaku's theory. When you go to the last era of the game, were you meet Janos, the entire path you take to the Air Forge isn't there. It's not just blocked off, it just doesn't exist, which I'm going to assume means the Forge isn't there. Then I realized that this opens a new mystery.
If the Air Forge didn't exist on the day Janos died, then who made it? Maybe I'm just missing something. Thank You all for listening, I anxiously await your comments.

[warpsavant]

Yes, yes, no air forge path. Alot of changes in that area.

[darien_specter]

Howsomever, the lack of a clear path does not imply a lack of existence, merely that the way there is not accessible in this time. Remember, the ancients can fly, so such an obstacle is not a problem; also, there are other areas where the path is blocked, but something is still there (ie, the path to Uschtenheim, the path to the Pillars shrine which is blocked in the material world). I think there are several things at that lake for which access is different in this time period because of the height of the ice, though I don't remember specifically...

[warpsavant]

My Raziel can fly, and it ain't there. This doesn't mean its not there, but, it isn't there.

Anyway, the Air Forge always seemed somewhat VIOLENT to me, so I think it was made in hard times.

[darien_specter]

Granted... still, logic seems to dictate that it's older than the Sarafan period, since all the others seem to be as well... Maybe they were really beating the hell out of the Hylden at that point, who knows. I agree, it is really violent... who are those poor saps anyway?

OOHH - brainstorm: Some have hypothesized that the ruins int he lake outside the Sarafan cathedral are the ruins of the Spirit Forge; what if the apparently deep freeze of that winter destroyed it? After all, when Raziel blasts that hole in the ice, the rest of the lake is frozen solid...

[warpsavant]

In the Sr2 bonus materials it looks more like a forge, not neccesarily Spirit. But in the bonus section on the PS2 disc is a picture of that area (presumebly) and there looks to be some fonts there. It could be the water forge cause its underwater.

I think the Hylden were beating the crap out of the humans and the vampires.

Maybe those guys are Janos first attempts at creating life.

I remember somewhere reading someone saying different vampire tribes created each shrine. Its either that or they were all created in different eras, but all after the pillars construction.
(The murals in the Grotto or whatever you want to call it under the Pillars had to be made first, and since the Murals in the Forges basically show the banishing, they had to come 2nd)

Air Forge reminds people of Aztecs and the Incas. Or is Mayans?