Attetion Thread To Cd - No Constant Music Please

[Joshorty]

The scores Troels Fromann accomplished in TOMB RAIDER LEGEND were fabulous without a doubt. The scores fits in the mood of the gameplay at the right moment in time and place.

However, the game runs in a constant tune, leaving the background music running endlessly until we reach to a point of having the soundtrack change to fit in the right mood or whenever a specific cutscene occurs.

The problem?
It ruins the atmosphere of not only the game but the place you're in during the gameplay.

Take it from The level, Lost Valley (TOMB RAIDER I) for example. She entered an area in where there is total isolation with creatures that were thought extinct. Having the silence of isolation gives you the sense of isolation and perhaps, "fear" - making you really feel you're "attached" to the world Lara ventures. You're also able to hear the beautiful evniromental sounds from the waterfalls clearly giving you a sense of that you're all alone.

These factors hellps create this "atmosphere" TOMB RAIDER I had. Having constant music breaks the atmosphere- it kinda gives a sense that you're being watched by something.

Of course, there are times when the music comes in the right moment. Like when the suprising appearence of the T-Rex appeared with the fearful score that enchance the moments. Or whenever you see vast areas that are truly beautiful and amazing and has a triumphant score with it.

I try to sound very complicated here but Basically, NO CONSTANT MUSIC PLEASE
It was probably mentioned before but I thought they should REEEALY know

Please consider So whoever basically wants NO CONSTANT MUSIC, post and talk yaddiyada...

And since it's already confirmed recently that there's no Zip/Alister, it's not an issue no more

[_mil]

Originally Posted by Joshorty

And since it's already confirmed recently that there's no Zip/Alister, it's not an issue no more

Its not an issue that they're not there any more, its a pleasure.

It would be good to not have 'rush' music cued BEFORE the event occurs. What i mean is, hows about, you hear the T-Rex first with a giant roar, and to have it come out randomly so you will never expect either one... when that second one came out, major need-a-change-of-pants mode.... or was that just tr2 and no tr1 in there with he two also... hmmmm

One thing that was sorely missed in Legend was the fear-factor.... i don't know if it scared you yanks, but us Aussie's didn't find it harsh at all. Perhaps you need to watch some of the Saw movies to get what scary is (kinda). Things where very, VERY unexpected in the classics, but you just seemed to of 'watched' along with legend. And the music is the key. Best example of music that suits the situation the best, in TR2, when lara is driving in the car in the snow case. Best scene, best music/song!

[Terminatorvs]

I would disagree. To my mind the first three "TRs" were very quiet - little music, little talking. If we go back to that, it'll be a major step back, not forward. I already mentioned, that when I was playing "TR2" recently, where Lara speaks really really rarely, I felt so lonely that I started speaking to myself. By the way, did you know, that if a human being doesn't speak to anyone for a rather long time, he'll lose his mind. His IQ will simply degrade to animal level. And about the music: did you really enjoy hearing the same old tune over and over again and again in different parts of the game? To my mind, that was the flaw. The fear factor that you mention is hardly even there. So, we're walking along a damp cave, and suddenly an animal jumps out and roars. Wow... So scary. IT'S NOT SCARY! NOT A BIT! Even when I played "TR1" a long time ago I did not feel scared even by mr. T-Rex. It's not even fear, it's simply a surprise - you're caught flat-footed. The thing that you feel is not fear, it's only a gasp, nothing more. If you want something scary play "Silent Hill" (any) or "F. E. A. R."

[shirl123]

I agree with you, Joshorty.
I think they shouldn't use it ANYMORE (yes, even on TR8), even though the TR7/TRL scores were amazing.
why? because:
1. like you said - "being watched" or something...totally ruins the atmosphere.
2. it makes the classic moments AND the music itself less dominant.

IMO, they should use MORE tunes, a big(ger) variety of background voices...but NO constant music.

[Joshorty]

But I understand what the others are saying for those who disagree, however. But it simply doesn't feel like a Tomb Raider no more. I understand at times we have to move on with the new and stuff...but if it ruins the atmosphere - whether we played Legend first or played the titles from before - it does kinda ruin it

Originally Posted by _mil

Its not an issue that they're not there any more, its a pleasure.

It would be good to not have 'rush' music cued BEFORE the event occurs. What i mean is, hows about, you hear the T-Rex first with a giant roar, and to have it come out randomly so you will never expect either one... when that second one came out, major need-a-change-of-pants mode.... or was that just tr2 and no tr1 in there with he two also... hmmmm

One thing that was sorely missed in Legend was the fear-factor.... i don't know if it scared you yanks, but us Aussie's didn't find it harsh at all. Perhaps you need to watch some of the Saw movies to get what scary is (kinda). Things where very, VERY unexpected in the classics, but you just seemed to of 'watched' along with legend. And the music is the key. Best example of music that suits the situation the best, in TR2, when lara is driving in the car in the snow case. Best scene, best music/song!

I thought thought having the music occur first wasn't a bad idea after a split second you see the T-Rex around the corner
But yeah I know what you mean by the "fear factor" - that's another thing that was gone. 'cause with the constant music, we don't feel the fear no more Well, whatever people calls it - the "surpise factor" if they're not scared. I miss those daysthe silence really pumps it up.

And Hehe I'm glad to hear today's news

"Thanks to the Tomb Raider Legend engine, this game looks incredible, with the sense of isolation that dominated the original experience being keyed in on."

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/headlines3058.html

That was from the PLAY MAGAZINE

[Rascalius]

The background music's awesome! This thread SUCKS!!

[Headache]

It doesn't really bother me... But I somewhat agree with shirl123

[Treeble]

FWIW, everytime I play Legend the constant music feels exactly like background music from the previous games, though instead of just sound of drips of water and the occasional strange noise we get a melody here. I just notice the constant music pumps up when there's action involved, but that's been pretty much the same the past 10 years. That might be just me though. Anyway, I think I'd rather stress over how many action figures the game will render. (BTW - hopefully, half a dozen at least! )

[Mangar The Dark]

The background music seemed well-suited for the game, IMO. It really didn't bother me at all. Of course, if they suddenly start putting in toe-tapping Lemmings-style music, it could get a bit annoying, but some subtle atmospheric music is ok.

[Joshorty]

Originally Posted by Rascalius

The background music's awesome! This thread SUCKS!!

First of all I didnt' say the background music sucks or anything in Legend. It just breaks the atmosphere. It is my fault I didn't mention that they shouldn't do this for the upcoming Anniversary edition.

And 2nd...the past Tomb Raiders never got constant music. Of course, there are times when we need them when there's occasional gun fights and stuff but not ALL THE TIME. It kinda starts gettin' annoying after a while...maybe annoying isn't the right word here. It just doesn't feel right. Of course, that's my opnion but really, I think that's one of the things that kinda made Legend not as better as the Tomb Raider before - ESPECIALLY for the first Tomb Raider. ISOLATION is like the key word here. The sense of isolation...just imagine in the Caves in the first game for example..or the waterfall in Lost Valley..or in the Lost Valley. Legend never had any of this - even though she did go into Tombs..

Look at this picture:


If you ask me, I'd rather listen to the enviromental sounds from there...of course in the RIGHT TIMING, it'll be then when we need the music (like the T-Rex...). This is TOMB RAIDER here

For those who never tried, try playing the game with the music (and maybe voice) off Click here if you really need to read it.

[Treeble]

Originally Posted by Joshorty

And 2nd...the past Tomb Raiders never got constant music. Of course, there are times when we need them when there's occasional gun fights and stuff but not ALL THE TIME. (...) It just doesn't feel right. Of course, that's my opnion but really, I think that's one of the things that kinda made Legend not as better as the Tomb Raider before - ESPECIALLY for the first Tomb Raider. ISOLATION is like the key word here. The sense of isolation...just imagine in the Caves in the first game for example..or the waterfall in Lost Valley..or in the Lost Valley. Legend never had any of this - even though she did go into Tombs..

Sorry Josh, but like I said above. I've played Legend beginning to end at least 50 times (the only game that really makes me get any close to a Sony console, at least until me GameCube copy arrives) and despite having played the original games about the same amount of times, I never felt that Legend had 'constant music'. Probably I'm not understanding what you mean, but things WERE quite eerie as Lara got deeper and deeper into Tiwanaku's tombs in Bolivia and Peru, things were eerie as Lara hopped across Japanese rooftops, things were eerie, things were eerie into England's tomb, things were spooky in Nepal... and like I said, I'd only notice the "techo" music as folk define it during key action moments, such as the escapade in Peru and England, the gun fights etc etc, but that's the whole principle of microscoring - make sure the music adapts to player's actions.

Perhaps the 'isolation' thing will be brought without Alister and Zip. Damn, I'll miss them. Maybe she gets to meet them in the end of the game on her way back home or something.

But I certainly hope Troels keeps his microscoring technique for Anniversary and whichever other TR games he gets to work for. It added not only a fresh change for the series, but also brought along many awards that the previous games scores, despite being most remarkalbe and loved by us all, never did.

I guess a little optimism from all of us wouldn't hurt, and this is coming from one of the most pessimistic guys anyone could ever get to meet.

[Joshorty]

It's okay - everyone has their own opnions But what I'm trying to say really is that the Tomb Raiding experience is kinda broken with music that keeps on playing in the background.

You've played the previous titles before right? From Tomb Raider I - one of the things that makes the game SO GREAT (again I'll say) is the sense of ISOLATION - you're being completely trapped in and you're alone. This is not a place where anyone has entered therefore you get the sense you're alone, while hearing all the eerie noises in the background (not the music- the noises). Legend kinda lost that for it constantly plays the music.

Again, like key moments, that's for sure when they'll need those music to pump up the game. Honestly, I've never found a moment (this is my opnion) where I felt pumped up at all in Legend. With the silence following the key-music, it pumps me up

It's funny - I only noticed that because of Legend. And yeah, Zip/Alister was one of the things that also didn't make me feel isolated It was Crystal Dynamics first try - I don't blame them. But now they have the chance for Anniversary. AT LEAST JUST for Anniversary. They can do that for their sequels but for the sake of remake..and since CORE lost their job for their almost complete version of Anniversary

If you still don't get it, try playing Tomb Raider I again from the beginnign or just one level Or try, like I said above before, playing Legend without the music...try staying in one spot and just listen all around you..Bolvia is probably one of the best examples..or West Africa..

[Treeble]

I've played all the previous games countless times, yes (except for TR3 and AOD, which I only played through twice). In fact, just last year I've played and finished TR1 in those XTHC challenges, after having played the 'normal' way zillions of times since '98. Thing is, with WXP is kinda annoying to play, and after having experienced Legend and it's fluid controls, I struggle to play the old games and not be bored. I liked them, back then.

I have played Legend without voices, but it felt so off I turned everything back on when I started Peru. And in one odd ocasion, Nepal didn't load the songs when I reloaded the upteenth time after doing death-defying runs (which I kept dying on, that's fact), and if anything, it took away from the game.

Legend is one of the rare cases where everything comes along together nicely, if you take off something, you have a gap there instead - it just doesn't feel complete.

[Joshorty]

Well I guess that just shows (even at some point, I find it that way too..and I get what you mean) stands its own for having all its "default" elements there. But for the first Tomb Raider...it just doesn't seem so

[Treeble]

I guess it's because we've played it so many times and we have such strong and fond memories of it, we might not see past its 'flaws', but that's definitely not the appropriate word. We're just used to it and fear it might get crushed if even the slightest is changed. As the Oracle said - "Change isn't easy. It never is."

Though we've gotta analyse both sides of the coin - sometimes, it changes for the better.

[Joshorty]

That's why I think they should do this only for the Anniversary They can of course, continue with their elements in their Legend sequels - that I don't mind. But as for the Anniversary - at least they should keep the original (of course, some things are changed) but the ones that really kept Tomb Raider TOMB RAIDER, they should go along with what made it TOMB RAIDER. This isn't Legend...but the controls are adapted - kinda happy for that

[shirl123]

Originally Posted by Joshorty

But for the first Tomb Raider...it just doesn't seem so

yep. one of the things that made TR1 so special at the time was it's unique atmosphere. I'm not sure that "isolation" is the right word to describe it...
(edited: TR1's atmosphere AND it's classic moments. like I said before, constand music will make *them* less dominant...and also itself)

sure, the constant music fits Legend perfectly (don't get me wrong, I LOVE this game!), but that's because Legend is probably the most "colorful/lighten-up" game in the series... so the constant music adds more colors to it.
unlike Legend, all the other games were a bit dark and somewhat-mysterious (yes, even the great TR3, which is colorful, but much darker then Legend)...so I don't think that constand music fits in THEIR case. it takes the darkness away, IMO.

anyway, the reason why I don't want the constant music ANYMORE is because I prefer the "darker" atmosphere it makes me feel the environment, something that I didn't have with TRL.

[Joshorty]

THANK YOU that's what I've been tryin' to say

[Alexlovesguns]

Legend has decent music but it was in my opinion overdone, i much prefered how the music was setup in early TR's (TR3), it was simple, nice and came up at the proper times (Who can say they didnt like the traditional TR scores?). When you reached somewhere, when you faced and overcome a tricky area or situation, etc. At times it even felt like small rewards and motivated me to go further.. in Legend the music is just there all the time, i would rather have higher quality environmental sound FX (imersion) and much better weapon sounds..

About the constant dialogs and chatting... anoyances really. Alone is the temple/tomb ruins always felt better, trapped, scared, curious, lost? Few dialogs are like rewards after being alone exploring for a while, constant yapping is too ordinary soap opera alike... i prefer the lonely adventurer style.

The way i like it: After going thru mazes and tunnels full of traps, tricky platforms and enemies you finally reach the impressive main chamber... in the center lies your most wanted artifact, a beautyfull scene with beautyfull music rewards your effort, it was all worth it .

Thats what it was all about to me... i want it back.

[Dragu Slave]

No Musics pls. Just a couple of creepy noises here and there, like in TR1.

[Terminatorvs]

Just don't go around "why was there no music and dialogues at all, it felt so hollow", if CDs will ever listen to you and make a mute game.

[Dragu Slave]

Originally Posted by Terminatorvs

Just don't go around "why was there no music and dialogues at all, it felt so hollow", if CDs will ever listen to you and make a mute game.

I'd rather the old "mute" soundtrack than techno music that kills the atmosphere during combat.

[shirl123]

Originally Posted by Terminatorvs

Just don't go around "why was there no music and dialogues at all, it felt so hollow", if CDs will ever listen to you and make a mute game.

I'm sure some people will come up with it, this community already has a bad name of "moaners". (I'm not sure on which forums the first one was talking about, but either way - we're having the same thing here) :-/
but...hmmm...this request seems a bit deeper then the usual ones, IMO. the atmosphere has a large effect on the game-play.

I personally don't have a problem with the "lighten-up" atmosphere, I'm not complaining or anything (IMO, they did a superb job with almost everything on Legend, even the atmosphere), but I prefer the "dark" one that we had on the previous games. I'll be cool with everything, as long as it fits the game(s)

[StarChampagne]

Proud to be a moaner If we sat here all day spouting nothing but praise for the game, it would probably get tiresome pretty quick (maybe not for the designers), but then again, excessive moaning is also tiresome... oh well

Back on topic: music... hmm. I mostly loved the constant music in Legend, and especially in Aod. But I agree with Alexlovesguns - less music makes it more special. And atmospheric/lonely etc. So, I would quite like no constant music

[shirl123]

Originally Posted by StarChampagne

but then again, excessive moaning is also tiresome... oh well

that's what I'm talking about (...and these people).
criticizing can be a good thing, realizing the game's flaws and helping us figure out what we really want. but as for over-moaning, well, it takes the over-moaner's creditability away.

I guess most of us agree about the music for the exact same reasons?