Slightly disappointed in Crystal Dynamics...

[susan]

Originally Posted by midroth

...
Someone a coke, too? PT, Susan..? Diet, normal?
...

LOL.

[midroth]

Your tea, PT . It's an "Earl Grey", of course.

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

Originally Posted by =Shrensh=

I found it extremely funny (and enjoyable) that in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time the Prince kept losing little bits of his shirt until he was topless at the end

I quit playing too soon! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Of course, midroth. Thanks.

[WraithStar]

Originally Posted by Xcom

The way you present your comments is also a choice. Saying that a woman looks like a cheap stripper broad is something different than saying that perhaps her exquisite dress is a little bit too revealing, in your humble opinion.

Those are indeed very different comments, representing different opinions. In my opinion, there is nothing exquisite about Lara's dress, in any sense of the word. In that dress, she *does* look like a "cheap stripper broad" (your words, not mine) and no matter how I phrase it, that's what my opinion remains. I view this dress, especially with the fact that they've released screenshots of it a few months before the game comes out, as an advertising stunt and nothing more. After all of the reassurances that Lara's returning to her roots and to raiding tombs, suddenly she's wearing Rayne's dress while sneaking into a party, just like Rayne, to find out information about her mother's killer, just like Rayne. It seems like a cheap ploy to copy off of BloodRayne and draw in a young male audience. If they were so certain that the dress fits in with the story and really, truly belongs there, then why release screenshots of it before the game is even out? Why even mention that it exists unless they are trying to use it for PR, in which case they are going against everything they said earlier about how they would treat Lara.

[midroth]

Fact is: The dress is no Lagerfeld and no Westwood! Unfortunately...
It seem to be a "CD" = change dress...

[ShadowOfOblivion]

I'm sorry you are taking my comments to heart Catsuit, but since when was it classy for a woman to wear a dress where her breasts are technically ready to fall out? J-Lo tried the same thing and it was basically five inches from nudity as the amount of skin showed (in my opinion) was totally inappropriate. This dress is basically J-Lo part two, and the evidence of this is only a page back. I mean the closest match that one person found to the dress was from a lingerie shop!

Why, should a woman with the utmost of class like Lara be wearing a dress that could only be described as fancy lingerie? No..I agree that women's character should not be determined by what they wear, but then again women are far more classier then men and its a proven fact. Plain and simple, Lara has never used her breasts to get answers, so why would she start now?

You're taking my words to heart, when you fail to realize I'm protecting the image of women in video games by making this post. I'm tired of girls being portrayed as big jiggly breasted females in videogames because it's disrespectful.

You know Lara's breasts bounce in Legend and you know 13 year olds are gonna position the cam right inside of that dress so they can see every minute of it.

Can you tell me that you'd want videogame women to be nothing more then a perverted male's fantasy? I doubt it. You want women to be held with respect, just like I dont want Lara to be made into a sex object.

I think you totally missed the point of my post.

[TheLegend]

Originally Posted by CatSuit&Ponytail

Do we have to burn our bras again to make the point that it's no-one else's business but our own selves' what we wear?

What about those places where women are forced to wear a sheet that completely covers them except for the eyes because "they may make some man excited"? Who gives the powers that dictate that any right? This situation is based in the same feelings. Some people want to control someone else's rights and freedoms, and I am saying "No."

WOAH! Hold your horses everyone! This argument cannot be compared to the suffragette movement or to modern suppressed women. And you REALLY don't have to burn your bra, CatSuit&Ponytail!
I do support your argument that appearance should be a woman's choice, and she shouldn't be judged, but this choice of outfit is not simply 'Lara's business', as the game is released worldwide, and, despite what we might hope, people do judge books by their covers (or lack of covers in this instance). People have the right to be offended, as Lara Croft is very much in the public eye. The outfit is a little suggestive (or perhaps a lot more), but lets not start arguing that Lara has rights and freedoms or that she has the right to choose what she wears.
However, Lara Croft is a videogame heroine, and she has always been marketed as a sex symbol. Why get angry over a few polygons? When the game is released, don't refuse to buy it just because of a cleavage, or to make a stand against the male chauvinist pigs at Crystal Dynamics. Accept that Tomb Raider is a game, and enjoy it.

[EvilNessCroft]

Disappointed by Cristal Dynamics!???????? Noooo way! How can you be! Without them, TR would be dead!! the dress looks great on her btw.. maybe it's a little revealing.., but so what? it's just an evening dress.. and there's so much more to talk and think about of this game! and no one should worry about it! CD are doing an awesome job! ^^

they're my heros !

can't wait to play that game XD

[Paul-uk]

OH come on men! what would you say about DOA4



this is actually porn lool

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

DOA4, GTA -- that's exactly the point.

Lara is not a stripper in shoddy clothes like the women in EVERY OTHER VIDEO GAME she is supposed to be a sophisiticated wealthy aristocrat
... and mind you, she went to FINISHING SCHOOL!!

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Originally Posted by Xxx_Lara_xxX

DOA4, GTA -- that's exactly the point.

Lara is not a stripper in shoddy clothes like the women in EVERY OTHER VIDEO GAME she is supposed to be a sophisiticated wealthy aristocrat
... and mind you, she went to FINISHING SCHOOL!!

Thank you! Finally someone sees my point and doesn't think I'm trying to control women like certain socities do.

God, I say I dont want Lara to be marketed as a sex object and this whole Women's rights battle comes up. Maybe I care about women's rights in the media and not them being marketed as sex objects for men? Sheesh.

And you may be picketing for women to wear revealing clothing like that Cat, but I know girls around here dont wear dresses like that. There's a certain thing called 'image'.

[=Shrensh=]

Yeah, this isn't about women's right to wear what they like. Lara didn't "choose" to wear that dress, it was decided by video game programmers that she will wear it. I think that CD would do well to listen to people's concerns about the over-sexualisation of Lara. Women actually do not like being objectified. I know I get intensely annoyed when I see Lara being treated as a sex object. The number of female gamers is increasing (Tomb Raider already has a large female fan following) and it wouldn't be a good idea to piss us off.

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Originally Posted by =Shrensh=

Yeah, this isn't about women's right to wear what they like. Lara didn't "choose" to wear that dress, it was decided by video game programmers that she will wear it. I think that CD would do well to listen to people's concerns about the over-sexualisation of Lara. Women actually do not like being objectified. I know I get intensely annoyed when I see Lara being treated as a sex object. The number of female gamers increasing, (Tomb Raider already has a large female fan following) and it wouldn't be a good idea to piss us off.

Exactly. How this turned into a thread about women's rights to wear what they like is beyond me. This thread, if anything is about the media/videogame industry's unfair portrayal of women and how they constantly are reduced to nothing more then sex objects which (in my mind) sets women's rights back about 50 years. Like I said..how many men are gonna trap the camera in a corner and make Lara move so they can see her cleavage bounce around erratically? Probably quite a few. And that's just not right.

If you want a prime example of how female portrayal in the REAL WORLD is going downhill, I give you two words: Jessica Simpson. She talks with little intelligence, uses sex to sell her image and allows her people to market her based solely on her large chest and 'good looks'.

Sound familiar? It's what is being done with Lara Croft despite promises it'd be on the contrary.

Core might have had Lara posing semi-nude in The Last Revelation, but even that was more covered up then this dress is.

[Trinity34]

Wow what a great debate!!

Cat I don't think anyone is saying you can't wear what you want. I think what fans are saying that they expect Lara to be something more than the "other sleazy videogame females". And remember, I put that in quotes... I think you can see how other video game characters are portrayed and some of the pictures have been posted here... and yes, it could have been worse for Lara. But I also think Lara could have been dressed in one of those dresses that princess diana was wearing and everything would have been fine.... the fact that CD put her in a very revealing dress makes a statement. To some it shows that CD is only trying to sell the game... to others it shows that CD doesn't care about Lara's reputation and now she is just like any other video game character.... which is sad because now Lara becomes an object. Isn't it funny how we get so emotional about a videogame character???

[MADVDPRODUCTIONS]

Now is that an official release from Crystal Dynamics.. and you know someone have had added that line "Favorite new gadget? Double sided sticky tape" I mean what the heck? Anyways, people who are really hating are people who are interested of her. It doesnt bother me if Lara has cleavage, a woman should be sexy and smart. Looks are decieving, for this case Lara is smarter than she looks, "Not just bimbo" ofcourse.

[Xcom]

Originally Posted by ShadowOfOblivion

but since when was it classy for a woman to wear a dress where her breasts are technically ready to fall out?

Originally Posted by ShadowOfOblivion

This thread, if anything is about the media/videogame industry's unfair portrayal of women and how they constantly are reduced to nothing more then sex objects which (in my mind) sets women's rights back about 50 years.

Excuse me, but what the heck are you talking about? What's with "portrayal" thing? Here is example of how women present themselves at respectful, glamourous events in 21st century. (don't faint on me )



I mean dresses like these are made by world leading fashion designers and cost more than my average 100 year salary. Basically, you're saying this isn't classy. Well, I'm afraid "classy" has moved on past waving hand from a carriage and cutting ribbons.

[Trinity34]

Btw, did you guys see some of the fan responses to Lara's dress? One of the first comments was... "I wonder if she is wearing any panties?"... a reply..."Don't be silly, she's not wearing any".... "I can't wait to make Lara crawl around in her dress to see what kind of panties she wears".


My question is... does the black dress help or hurt Lara's reputation?

[GoranAgar]

Originally Posted by Trinity34

Cat I don't think anyone is saying you can't wear what you want. I think what fans are saying that they expect Lara to be something more than the "other sleazy videogame females".

So they are saying a real woman can wear such a dress but a video game character can not? Sounds like a half-baked thought to me.

[Taigerr]

Those who are defending the dress please answer this... Did you go to finishing school and if so would that dress have been one that would have been approved of by your tutors as evening wear to ANY party.... Theres a program here in the UK called Austrailian Princess where Lady Di's former butler, Paul Burrel, takes 12 ordinary Australian girls some from cities and others from farming environments and tries to instill in them some English culture, finnesse, aristocratic grace and elegence...In one episode he asked them to go shopping for evening wear nearly all turned up in similar attire to this and the first thing he said was a lady never shows too much cleavage or legs at any social event or party it is unlady like.... Now my point is: despite some of these girls being from very wealthy backgrounds they had no class and none had ever been to a finishing school.. YES the girls looked sexy but the way the chose to do it made them look extremely accessible way... nothing at all left to the imagination... ..... when put in the context of what Toby Gard said, CD are selling out... this is sexualising Lara. I would not expect a debutante or Lady to go about like this... If the plot was one where the party was in a men only club, where the only women in the place were the performing girls, would not be allowed to wear anything covering more than 35-45% of their bodies once INSIDE the front door of the club (no over coats allowed), then yeah I'd say she was using her initiative dressing like that... Oh and wouldn't it just be great if CD rounded the look off with 6inch "glass" glamour platform shoes as seen here>>

http://www.wildfree.com/Merchant2/me...=hh-cobra-blue

Want Inspiration, How about Audrey Hepburns dress in Breakfast at Tiffanys?? Maybe a little closer cut but with not at all so much showing and adding some long gloves would possibly give her look that little extra edge that says: "This girls different..... "

CD.... please do something about this.... and also make Zip not so stereotypically blacK eh?!..... i.e cocky verging on arrogant, thieving, uneducated excon....

Its not ALWAYS just about gameplay you know....

[Taigerr]

Originally Posted by Xcom

Excuse me, but what the heck are you talking about? What's with "portrayal" thing? Here is example of how women present themselves at respectful, glamourous events in 21st century. (don't faint on me )



I mean dresses like these are made by world leading fashion designers and cost more than my average 100 year salary. Basically, you're saying this isn't classy. Well, I'm afraid "classy" has moved on past waving hand from a carriage and cutting ribbons.

Did any of these people go to finishing school.... Sex sells and hollywood needs it to sell its no longer about good scripts... I wonder how many scripts Charlize Theron recieves that ACTUALLY REQUIRE HER TO ACT???? thankfully she is a good actress... How many aristocrates... TRUE BRITISH aristocrates are attending these events.... oh hold on I see one, J-Lo... my apologise

[Taigerr]

And another Cathrine Zeta Jones-Douglas... from Wales (UK) the heartland of aristocratic society....

[Treeble]

Originally Posted by Taigerr

How many aristocrates... TRUE BRITISH aristocrates are attending these events....

Lara Croft is not real.

[Xcom]

Originally Posted by Taigerr

Did any of these people go to finishing school....

Quit this finishing school nonsense 'cause that really smells like middleages. Do they teach there how to raid tombs, shoot machine guns, fight wild animals, use kung-fu on bad guys? Princess Di didn't do all those things, but Lara does, and I bet she didn't learn it there.

Originally Posted by TREEBLE

Lara Croft is not real.

Surely you are mistaken.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

Originally Posted by Xcom

** CLASSY?? ** (pointing to the 4th white|| panel dress on bottom row)
That was on all the 'worst dressed' lists. Generally in good taste, you wouldn't have a plunging bodice in front and exposed legs up to the hips on both sides (see white dress, 4th on bottom row). The other low-cut dresses in these pics are long dresses which cover the knees or go all the way to the floor. NONE of them is a plunging neckline, low-back and with mini-panels in place of a skirt (except the white one fourth on the bottom row)

The idea in these pics and in general is always to "reveal yet conceal" -- and the Legend dress leaves absolutely nothing to the imagination. Its not even a full skirt! That sort of detail makes the difference between sexy and skanky. These dresses are unique and expensive clothing, but you can clearly see how tacky and cheap-looking the fourth one on the bottom row is in comparison, because it reveals almost everything.

That's my complaint really. Its a tacky dress that shows too much skin, you can see her breasts AND her back AND her legs, and Lara shouldn't be portrayed that way.
Re: Finishing School
If they write that she went to "Swiss Finishing School" in her profile, then don't put her in a trashy evening dress and expect people not to notice the extraodinary contradiction. You don't learn how to fire guns but you learn how to serve and take tea, the polite mannerisms of the "upper crust" and attire for different formal events... I think it's entirely possible the (American) CD development team doesn't even know what finishing school is, or they don't care anyway because they think "showing skin" will sell more copies of the game than a character kept consistent with her background/ upbringing, IMHO

[Treeble]

Originally Posted by Xxx_Lara_xxX

Re: Finishing School
If they write that she went to "Swiss Finishing School" in her profile, then don't put her in a trashy evening dress and expect people not to notice the extraodinary contradiction. You don't learn how to fire guns but you learn how to serve and take tea, the polite mannerisms of the "upper crust" and attire for different formal events... I think it's entirely possible the (American) CD development team doesn't even know what finishing school is, or they don't care anyway because they think "showing skin" will sell more copies of the game than a character kept consistent with her background/ upbringing, IMHO

Her profile's been changed. It doesn't mention a Finishing School anymore.