LOK is great because:

[fneh]

OK, I've recently gained interest in LOK again so I'm gonna post my pros and cons of all the games "just because" (I'm bored and wanna avoid work for another 10 mins)

Blood Omen
Pros
- Free Roaming world
- good story (even with all the plot holes)
- progress from a weakling into a dark god
- hidden spells and weapons

Cons
- graphics
- controls
- ..... make it almost unplayable
- EVIL MENUS that forever annoy me. I need an axe to chop a tree down. Menu>>>loading>>>>swap weapon>>>>loading>>>>chop tree down>>menu>>>loading>>>>switch back to sword>>>loading.....


Soul Reaver
Pros
- graphics (still look good IMO)
- story
- free roaming world
- progress with new powers through the game to unlock new areas
- hidden glyphs (altough rather pointless, still fun to have)
- opening FMV is one of those great unforgettable FMVs
- hidden areas
- using environment to kill opponents/bosses instead of brainless button bashing
- lots of puzzles and thinking instead of brainless bashing buttons

cons
- it wasn't FINISHED
- one (or 10) too many block puzzles
- over use of constrict ability from when you get it until the end of game
- it wasn't FINISHED

Soul Reaver 2
Pros
- graphics (rats scurrying about and amazing water effects )
- new reaver system very well done
- very good puzzles and level design

Cons
- It wasn't even half what we were promised in previews (able to control time machine eh?????) and was (again) incomplete
- I missed killing vamps cleverly (IE spikes, water etc)
- raziel talked too much. Where's your RAGE man???
- it had time travel.....
- no more boss fights
- feel conned when you realise it's so short compared to the first SR game AND had a cliffhanger ending despite being so short lived

Blood Omen 2
Pros
- good character designs (mostly... points at Umah's spandex)
- boss fights well done
- dark gifts (I LOVE jump)
- human interaction. conversations etc
- the way dead bodies convulse when you drain their blood (my personal fav thing about this game!)
- the insane gore
- an actual complete game for once (more or less)

cons
- BUGS
- level based instead of free roaming world
- all the sci fi garbage in a previously fantasy game
- graphics weren't very good
- character animation was awful. why did umah's arms NEVER STOP MOVING???
- Umah in general actually. Everything about her was awful.
- no thinking puzzles apart from the bosses. just A to B switches

Defiance
Pros
- BEAUTIFUL graphics
- telekinesis!
- all the reaver updates we'd been promised for 2 previous (incomplete) games
- the game wasn't half complete either for a nice change
- insane combat system (even tho the old one was fine, this one was better)
- TUREL!

cons
- the CAMERA!
- the BUGS
- it didn't have an ending AGAIN
- it was level based (even tho you can kinda go back. the levels didn't link together and there was no point going back at all)
- brainless design. just smash the hell outa it and you'll be reet. a platformer turned DMC clone.......
- the story felt rushed and lost its composure after being dragged out so many incomplete games
- it didn't actually have an ending despite being the final LOK game we'll ever see
- the "bonus areas" were infact found by going to the corner you couldn't see in because the camera sucked.
- switching charcters was annoying. I'd've prefered like res evil and a kain game and a raziel game (mode KAIN and mode RAZIEL). I would've preferred complete it as raz (seeing as it was his game to start) then unlock the kain game for the complete story.

[The Hylden]

BLO1 (still the best in the series)
Pros:
1. Great story
2. Longest of any, by far
3. Completely open ended
4. Gameplay
5. Stand alone story
6. Abilities
7. Gory beautiful death
8. Great music

Cons:
1. Load times for pause menu/any menu
2. Waiting forever for the full moons to get secrets

SR1
Pros:
1. Great new story arc
2. Fantastic cut-scene opener -- one that can't really be outdone still
3. open ended play
4. blending of the old locals like Nupraptor's retreat
5. Glyphs and puzzles
6. Great music

Cons:
1. Length if one takes it linearly without stopping
2. combat lags at times (button to action ratio)
3. too many block puzzles

SR2
Pros:
1. Incredible upgrade in graphics
2. Fantastic focus on story
3. Another great cut-scene opener
4. Cliff-hanger that really was awesome, imo
5. Combat improved -- love dodge (almost circling your opponent before they even attack)
6. Great music! (notice a pattern? lol)

Cons:
1. Length, I suppose

Defiance
Pros:
1. Story (I loved it)
2. Graphics
3. Combat and action
4. Music
5. Finally some peace for the tortured blue guy
6. Playing as elder Kain

Cons:
1. Loved the ending, but hope that there will be a continuance to it and that's not how it's going to be left...
2. Forges get a bit tedious
3. Statues get a bit tedious
4. Combat's great, but the same room almost fighting the same group of Hylden and such, needed to be varied or given more purpose for...
5. Though the character models were rendered much better overall, body-wise, especially Raziel (ribs finally, correct spine, and his claws aren't blue!), Raziel's face looked more cartoon-like than before and Kain's skin-tone and face weren't as good as the emulation in SR2 of the FMV version of him.

BO2
Pros:
1. Gameplay
2. Length
3. World was pretty vast
4. Kain is his supreme arrogant self, making for some insanely memorable lines
5. Abilities
6. Boss battles, though some were a little hokey
7. Stand alone title that is a great game, in and of itself
8. Music, mostly
9. Kain’s feeding has to be appreciated, even if it is a tad much The man just keeps eating and eating, lol

Cons:
1. Character animation was horrid (hands and mouth movements totally unnecessary)
2. Only the GC and PC versions are without those horrid glitches you always hear about...
3. While we know this is an alternate timeline and things have changed because we are hard-core fans, the average player gets confused when they play this title, for good reason.
4. No explanation in game or now for the few major anomalies (plot quirks, like Vorador) in the game
5. Annoying combat music that's not as good as the rest of the music at all.

I think that's about it

[Omega]

SR2 wasn't long!

It used the aged old technique of repeating the same landscape as we see in many "old skool" games!

Not that I'm complaining mind, SR2 was a bloody great game!

[The Hylden]

I assume that's in response to me?? Length was a con as in it WAS short But, I didn't find it to be too bad, which is why I said "I suppose."

Also, no need to shout

[Omega]

Ahh, my bad - misread you're post!

[fneh]

you can dodge just the same in SR1 y'knoW?

the only problem in SR1 with didging was the DC version. It you shuffled forwards you ALWAYS attack. On other versions you culd dodge exactly the same.

SR2 added a (fairly useless) block button if I recall?

I considered the length of SR1 to be quite good really. but just imagine if it was released complete...... it would've been huge

[The Hylden]

you can dodge just the same in SR1 y'knoW?

I know that, yes. It was sort of the same, but done much better in SR2. I think a lot of it had to do with the speed and response.

[fneh]

lol, I thought it was exactly the same.....

one thing tho: the combat camera that's on the debug menu makes combat AMAZINGLY easy. you can obliterate even the final bosses with that camera one and just keep walking around them (hit till fall over>>walk around them in autoface>>>the get up>>>>>HIT HIT HIT!>>>>> repeat. They can't TOUCH you)

[Smoke_Z]

Con with Blood Omen 2... Kain feels clumsy and heavy / they used an engine from a racing game. (I realise that Kain has always had incredibly dense muscles, but it's most noticeable there.)

[Umah Bloodomen]

Let's make sure this doesn't become another LOKD Camera-bashing thread. Much obliged.

[fneh]

Originally Posted by Umah Bloodomen

Let's make sure this doesn't become another LOKD Camera-bashing thread. Much obliged.

I was talking about the SR2 combat camera. And I was actually pointing out it was a good thing (even tho it's obvious the bigger monsters are the reason it wasn't used in the full game)
There's only been one reference to the LOKD camera in my original post in the entire thread hasn't there? (well besides this one)

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally Posted by fneh

I was talking about the SR2 combat camera. And I was actually pointing out it was a good thing (even tho it's obvious the bigger monsters are the reason it wasn't used in the full game)
There's only been one reference to the LOKD camera in my original post in the entire thread hasn't there? (well besides this one)

Mentioning the camera in any game is fine, focusing solely on the camera (as the other thread(s) did) is going to cause more headaches (as witnessed in the past). As the title of my last post stated, it was an obligatory PSA (directed more towards those who simply can't let the camera issue go and may use this opportunity to vent on and on and on and on).

[fneh]

Well I mainly wanted to point out the good things about the LOK games more than their faults to see which ones followed through throughout the series.

One thing that made BO1 and SR1 so great was that when you started you felt so small, in a huge world. You see areas that you know you COULD get to, but know you're not strong enough yet (be it a heavier rock in BO1 barring your path, or the drowned abby of SR1 you have to tip toe around to stay out of the water). Yet by the end of the game you know the world inside out and are powerful enough to go where you please and do what you want (even if that's just to swim in that first pool of water you threw a vamp in, to discover there's a pie piece in there)

This is something that's usually lost on sequels. Raziel started SR2 so powerful. And he was fighting inferior foes. How can you make the game a challenge now? And how to make BO2?? kain HAS the soul reaver! he's a dark god!!! We'll HAVE to kill him and make him be born again or the game just won't be playable!


One thing I WILL say about the LOKD camera is that is DOES look good to watch (IF the person knows where they're going of course) compared to the other games. the LOKD camera is also superior to the DMC cameras where you have to fight off screen opponents.

[weaponx]

i like LOK becorse:

great storyline
great voice talents
cool quotes
vampires aren't the "bad guys"
some of the puzzles are interesting

stuff i hate about LOK

elder god and moebius
block puzzles
soul reaver didn't have an ending
soul reaver was too short
the sarafan
raziels fate

[evil_sharkey]

*blows dust off keyboard*
It's been a while since I was last here, and this seems a fine thread to post in, so...

LOK is great because:
voice acting not stinky (a rarity among video games)
characters you can get attached to or truly loathe (Moe)
neat story
some levels/puzzles/environments visually spectacular

LOK's little teeny flaws are:
some puzzles annoyingly difficult
bugs
plot can get confusing
no "fun with killing Moebius" mini game
some puzzles in unlikely places (an offense common in almost any game involving puzzles, switches, and/or traps)

[Smoke_Z]

I've found some good points to Blood Omen 2...

Costume changes, though they're really not that important. (And not even an issue if you're using the cheat.)

Comedic value; like choking someone, dropping them on the ground, and then kicking them in the ribs because they're not dying fast enough. That and the bugs and other things that weren't exactly put there with the intention of laughing at it. (Like the acting of the bosses.)

[fneh]

lol, kain really is brutal in BO2 isn't he?

if picking them up by the throat and stabbing them in their vitals isn't enough, he walks after them crawling away and finishes the job before draining them of all their blood!

And let's not forget when he sneaks up on ppl and sticks his fist through their chest from behind...........

I was playing a week or so ago and I just can't believe how much gore

[Omega]

LoK is great because it's not another game for the masses *cough*EA*cough*.

It's something that is enjoyable, requires thinking about, and is just plain fantastic.

[Binky24]

And it has secret messages.
Today, while playing Defiance again, I got to Avernus, and at last saw that Cthulhu one! Missed it all the time before!

There is one thing from BO2 that I have kind remembrances of - jumping on top of enemies. For some reason, made me laugh.

[fneh]

Originally Posted by Binky24

And it has secret messages.
Today, while playing Defiance again, I got to Avernus, and at last saw that Cthulhu one! Missed it all the time before!

huh???? cthulhu????

[Binky24]

(points to the addendum in her post in the "archeologist" thread)

THE BOOK IS THE KEY TO THE ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE in the Lovecraft Diary font on the floor of the Avernus cathedral, around the portal and the place where you put the Earth Reaver in. That one?

[vampire][vorador]

BO1
- I will not talk about this one, i started playing LOK with SR1. But, as next game is taking so long to be announced, I was able to get the game (it was almost impossible) and I'm playing it now, while I wait for an announcement

SR1
Pros:
-It was the first game that was able to make me stick in front of the screen for hours.
-Great Intro
-Great Cutscenes
-Great Music
-Great Story
-Great Puzzles
-Great Bosses (Finding that tricks to kill every Raziel's brother was GREAT)
-Great something i missed

Cons:
-After a while, those block puzzles didn't looked great at all
-AI, The enemies were dumb

SR2:
Pros:
-It was the second game that was able to make me stick in front of the screen for hours.
-Great Intro
-Great Cutscenes
-Great Music
-Great Story
-Great Environment
-Great Reaver Forges (FX and puzzles)
-Great Graphics (character design, animation, FX, environment, EVERYTHING related to the graphic part)

Cons:
-I missed a few of that SR1 puzzles :P
-AI, the enemies were dumb
-So short...

BO2:
Pros:
-It was the third game that was able to make me stick in front of the screen for hours.
-Great Intro
-Great Cutscenes
-Great FMV's
-Great Music
-Great dark giftes
-Great Bosses

Cons:
-Not so great story
-Everywhere seemed the same
-AI, the enemies were dumb

Defiance:
Pros:
-It was the fourth game that was able to make me stick in front of the screen for hours.
-Great Intro
-Great Cutscenes
-Great Music
-Great Story
-Great Combat System
-Great Character Shifting (always making us think what would happend next)
-Great Graphics (not so great as SR2 ones)

Cons:
-Dumb Bosses (I miss the tricks from SR1)
-Raziel was gone
-AI, the enemies were dumb
-Something that didn't made me think this was the best game ever (That title is still for SR2)

Enjoy

[Big Daddy Kain]

I loved all the games, they're all masterpeices to me.

[The Hylden]

Preach on, Big Daddy

[fneh]

I just picked up defiance again last night for a while so I have to say:

-The combat is pretty fun - Playing Kain is especially good, even if he did hijack raziel's game series cos his own weren't as good :P

- The graphics on everything are just incredible. Have you seen what CD has done for tomb raider too?!??!!? Those guys are amazing.

- the camera makes the game near unplayable.

- The fact that only major character's mouths are animated somewhat annoys me. Why are the vamp hunters and hylden going back to the PSX era of just making their head wobble about???

- using kain's dark gifts is beyond fun (inspire hate anyone???) but I'd rather let the reaver stay charged for Raziel. The air reaver is amazing fully charged.

- Kain is a lot more fun to play. Having the telekinesis for so much longer makes a lot of difference.

- Ariel looks amazing. Seeing her jaw bone moving under her torn flesh is very nicely done.