1246?

[LOKFan]

In the Lower City of BO2 (near to the Blue Lady Shop) is a building with the sign "Hill House est 1246". Presumably this means BO2 occurs an undetermined number of years after 1246. I believe this is the only instance in the entire LOK series where an exact year has been given.

However, should this sign really be taken seriously as an indicator of the era of BO2?

[Raziel'sRevenge]

First of all, I've got to congratulate you on noticing something like that. You've got a good eye. Secondly, could you post a picture of the shop? I'd like to see for myself. Thirdly, I'm not sure how seriously I'd take it. It sounds like it's based on the humans timeline, which could be very different from Kain's and the vampire's. We all seem to take Kain's death/rebirth as the year 0, but that's only because it's convenient. So while the number you found may very well be the "actual" year that the game takes place, it doesn't do much for establishing exact dates of events. Still, very interesting...

...well then i guess that building was built approx 50 years ago so 1200...

based on the sr2 timeline that means.

the 1200's are 400 years after bo1 and the 800's is the century of bo1. if that is true then sometime in the 300's or 200's the reaver was forged so i guess 0 equals the birth of the pillars.

hmmm...

the 1300's would be the begining of kain's empire.
sometime in the 1400's is when raziel was tossed in the abyss and some time between 1600 and 2400 is when raziel was ressurected.

whoa...good find LOKFan!

[LOKFan]

Originally Posted by Raziel'sRevenge

First of all, I've got to congratulate you on noticing something like that. You've got a good eye.

Thank you. I'm a real fanatic of the LOK series and I intentionally go around looking for minute details within the LOK games.

Doh!!!....i gotta stop typing stuff late at night!

[Kain's Heart]

I'm confused a bit here

<<<posted by rabban,
the 1200's are 400 years after bo1 and the 800's is the century of bo1. if that is true then sometime in the 300's or 200's the reaver was forged so i guess 0 equals the birth of the pillars.

hmmm...


the 1300's would be the begining of kain's empire.
sometime in the 1400's is when raziel was tossed in the abyss and some time between 1600 and 2400 is when raziel was ressurected.>>>

If kain was 400 yrs. in the 1200's, his empire began in the 1300's, & Raziel was tossed into the Abyss in the 1400's... Then how come he said in the begining of SR1 that he's served Kain for a mellinium????

Something isn't right here!!! Some years are lost somewhere!

the 400 years marks the events of bo2 as said in the sr2 timeline not the age of kain.

as far as the millinium statement, a thousand years is a millinium right?

1300's...1400's?

the timeline says "roughly a century later" so that means some time in the mid 1300's (based on the est building being made in 1246) then a millinium later (1400?) raz takes a dip in the abyss...and centuries later (200 to 900 years) raziel is resurected.

i think that fits

[TBS]

a millenia is indeed 1000 years...and 1300 + 1000 = 2300, not 1400

uhh...
*looks down at floor*

...uhh...yeah i uhh well i counted only 100 years...uhh of course umm natural mistake...uhh anyone could have done it uhh i suck at math!!!

*runs out of topic with the speed of a cheetah.*

[Kain's Heart]

That was my point TBS, thanx...

It's ok rabban, everybody make mistakes!

...really?

[goblin981]

yeh we all make mistakes.

nice theory but there's a few problems:

1: how do you know the building is 50 years old? just a guess?

2: no one knows when the pillars were created. so I doubt the year numbers are based on that. Clearly something significant happened 300 years before the end of the sarafan. maybe that's when the humans took the pillars for themselves.

yeh we all make mistakes.

that's what you think.

the 50 year thing was a approximation so i rounded it to 1200. i guess everything but the 1300's/1400's thing is sound and i'm sure it can be corrected but i thought someone a tad better in math would fix it. but...ok...

the 1300's would be the begining of kain's empire...

add a millinium... 2300 to 2350 is when raz got chucked so between 2550 and 3250 is when raziel was awakened into his wraith form.

[goblin981]

so the building could be 500 years old for all you know?

est is short for established...est 1246 so i rounded it out to 1250 or 1200...see

[goblin981]

i know the building was est in 1246, but how do you know what year it is now? (as at bo2) 1246 could have been 10000 years ago for all we know.

[Gabriel Edson]

Originally Posted by goblin981

i know the building was est in 1246, but how do you know what year it is now? (as at bo2) 1246 could have been 10000 years ago for all we know.

well, you guys are kind of assuming that the building itself was built in 1246, but the sign could be referring to the business (which may have been handed down from generation to generation), so it could really be any number of years old.

you hear ads on the radio, where they brag about how long ago the business was established, and ive never heard them brag unless it was at least 50 years old.

suddenly i feel very silly for some reason. <shrugs>

shesh don't get so pushy...this is a C.Y.A anyways so

ok my hypothesis is this... year one is the creation of the pillars in human terms of nosgoth.

it's an assumption based on the timeline in sr2.

the pillars were created before nosgoth's recorded history

yet, the birth of the pillars is the one true event that would mark the begining of an era for humanity, it is then that humans would begin to gain power and self worth as the future guardians of the pillars...it would be in this time when the vampires would begin to lose their seat as rulers of nosgoth. ergo year one is the creation of the pillars and/or the time human's would usurp the guardianship of the pillars.

this is why i think year one is the creation of the pillars and not the birth of kain or when the pillars became corrupted or when kain damned the world.

the 1200's also sound about right to me as the era when meridian itself was established because the city of meridian was not on any map in bo1 though it is considered the capitol of nosgoth.

because the events in bo2 are in the 400 year mark on the timeline. meridian itself had to be built in between kain's refusal and his defeat by the sarafan lord. remember kain was asleep for 200 years in bo2 so that first 200 years would be inbetween kain's refusal to sacrifice himself and when he was defeated by the sarafan lord....and as i said earlier...meridian is not on any bo1 map.

based on my theory this also means meridian would have been built some time during kain's crusade to take over nosgoth. so again 1200 sounds like the right approximation...to me.

[soothsayer]

I dissagree.
Janos said he was awaiting Raziel for millennia, so he has to have been waiting since at least 2500 years before Kain was born, and he probably started waiting a few decades after the pillars were built, so that can't be year zero. and that building was pretty new and part of the glyph enhanced meridian, so it it wasn't more than 100 years old. So what ever occured to be called year zero happened a few centuries before Raz and Vor tor apart the old sarafan.

[Gabriel Edson]

what does C.Y.A. mean?

[soothsayer]

Originally Posted by rabban

the 1200's also sound about right to me as the era when meridian itself was established because the city of meridian was not on any map in bo1 though it is considered the capitol of nosgoth.

because the events in bo2 are in the 400 year mark on the timeline. meridian itself had to be built in between kain's refusal and his defeat by the sarafan lord. remember kain was asleep for 200 years in bo2 so that first 200 years would be inbetween kain's refusal to sacrifice himself and when he was defeated by the sarafan lord....and as i said earlier...meridian is not on any bo1 map.

Just because it wasn't on the BO map doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The map simply didn't extend south enough, and since there was no need to visit it didn't need to be on the map.
The sarafan fortress is just south of the southern lake, but it isn't on the map.

Also, since Kain did leave coorhagen due to the plague, and he was heading south, Meridian would be an adequate new residence for a young noble.

Meridian is a quite old city, And I doubt HL was there when what is now the slums was built.

Just because it wasn't on the BO map doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

it's only a theory...it can be modified... but i do think we can make approximations based on the information already given to us. bo1 never had a capitol of nosgoth it was a continent with several nations within it not a country or nation as this capitol eludes to...so it still sounds like a newly established place...probably by the hylden themselves...look at the introduction in bo2.

Kain:
This city is a labyrinth.

and

Umah:
Then let me show you the future. You have been asleep for two hundred years. In that time, this is what has become of Nosgoth.

meridian is the first time in lok that we actually see a huge urban envionment...not rural or aguarian.

The map simply didn't extend south enough, and since there was no need to visit it didn't need to be on the map.
The sarafan fortress is just south of the southern lake, but it isn't on the map.

The sarafan stronghold... a long abandoned building in the "original timeline" of bo1. many ancient buildings were ignored and allowed to rot in europe before people begun to see the importants of history.

Also, since Kain did leave coorhagen due to the plague, and he was heading south, Meridian would be an adequate new residence for a young noble.

as i recall kain was "ambitious but directionless" i dont think he was running away from the plague as much as he was trying to make a name for himself.

Meridian is a quite old city.

well after 400 years it better be.

what does C.Y.A. mean?

cover. your. you-know-what

Janos said he was awaiting Raziel for millennia, so he has to have been waiting since at least 2500 years before Kain was born, and he probably started waiting a few decades after the pillars were built, so that can't be year zero.

your right about that, perhaps it is year zero to the humans?...i mean they did not know the vampires were the creators of the pillars right?...so year zero must have been when moe and mort revolted and usurped the pillars.

[soothsayer]

The sarafan stronghold... a long abandoned building in the "original timeline" of bo1. many ancient buildings were ignored and allowed to rot in europe before people begun to see the importants of history.

it didn't seem to be that long abandoned, it looked fine when ariel was killed in it only 30 years before Kain became a vampire.

as i recall kain was "ambitious but directionless" i dont think he was running away from the plague as much as he was trying to make a name for himself.

where better than meridian? the posh capital of nosgoth.

HL/janos took some time working on building the hylden gate before HL visited meridian, and this time subtracted from 200 years is no time to build the walled fortress we seen in the opening cg in BO2. though HL did change it alot while Kain was sleeping.

whatever the humans use as year zero happened at most 500 years before Vor's assault, and the human guardian rebellion likely happened before Janos started to wait alone for raziel for at least 2000 years.

where better than meridian? the posh capital of nosgoth.

yep...so posh and such a great capitol in all of nosgoth that it did not make it on any map untill the era of bo2...

as i said before...the hylden tried to turn nosgoth the continent into a nation and meridian was the area and city of choice.

it didn't seem to be that long abandoned, it looked fine when ariel was killed in it only 30 years before Kain became a vampire.

in the "original timeline" in bo1 there was no citizen army ergo there was no interest in the a sarafan stronghold.

where better than meridian? the posh capital of nosgoth.

"ambitious but directionless"

directionless he was on a personal trek a walkabout of sorts...searching for his destiny...i'm sure if meridian existed he would eventually have went there but he did not.

HL/janos took some time working on building the hylden gate before HL visited meridian, and this time subtracted from 200 years is no time to build the walled fortress we seen in the opening cg in BO2. though HL did change it alot while Kain was sleeping.

do you think such a gate takes so long to build? it is purely a magical umbilical cord placed in an ancient hylden city.

"It has been confirmed by Crystal Dynamics that the Sarafan Lord utilized Janos' controlled body to open the gate, bringing his own, Hylden body into Nosgoth."

whatever the humans use as year zero happened at most 500 years before Vor's assault...

500 years is long enough for the human circle of 9 to rewrite history...and destroy most vampiric history books as well...but the timeline itself says that human history begins 500 years before the events of bo1. by that time vorador already killed most of the circle of 9.

...and the human guardian rebellion likely happened before Janos started to wait alone for raziel for at least 2000 years.

"history is written by the winners" and in this case it is the human's who won and completely erased vampires and hylden from history. so however long janos waited in his aerie does not matter to the human history books...besides the timeline says "before recorded history" on the timeline this just so happens to end when the reaver was forged...then the vampire population increases.

[soothsayer]

It doesn't matter if it wasn't in the BO in game map, do you think if Kain walked south of the pillars he would just fall into space? those areas weren't important because none of Kain's target's took up residence there. And even if Moe's army didn't occupy the sarafan fortress it doesn't mean it was left unused, thirty years prior to BO the guardians used it as their central meeting place, and came and went as they pleased. When ariel was murdered there it didn't look like it was dilapidated.

In BO, Kain's dialog implied he left when the plague hit, but left before things got bad. So I don't think Kain was gone long before he was killed, and because he was headed due south, Meridian would be the logical place to go and make a name for himself, as we seen little in the way of nobility in the area between Coorhagen and Meridian. Though Meridian may not have been Nosgoth's national capital at this time.

Janos:
It was in this way that the Sarafan Lord was able to enter the world, by building a magical gate. This is the Hylden Gate. Close this gate Kain, and all the Hylden within Nosgoth will perish.

since I doubt the hylden simply had a machine that could give draw hylden from hell, cause because as soon as they figured out the ancient's intentions it was too lat to come up with a counter measure. I'm not sure how long it took, But using scraps of hylden technology, combined with Janos' magic HL was able to create the hylden gate, 200 years after HL started his plans he was able to muster an army sufficient to combat one of Vorador's making.

the guardian rebellion happened about the same time as the reaver's forging, so that isn't what the humans are using as year zero.