Mortanious and the Hylden

[Smoke_Z]

An odd thought occurred to me about how long Morty has been an agent of the Hylden.

Some assume that he got possessed 500 BC, when Janos got murdered and the circle was devestated.

Others assume that it wasn't until 30 BC, when he killed Ariel.

What if Mortainious had been in communication somehow with the Hylden since the human revolt against the vampires? What if during the time that Moebius was making friends with Squiddy, Mortainious was listening to strange voices that preyed on his fears about becoming a vampire?

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

[goblin981]

First of I don't think BC is the correct term, but it will do.

Mortanius is the only one unaccounted for at Vorador's attack on the circle. I say he was probably working for the Hylden back then, though didn't yet know what they were exactly.

[TBS]

BBO (Before Blood Omen) or BK (Before Kain) would be better. AD (in the year of the lord) would be quite appropriate for any time after Kain's resurrection

Anyway, yes it is quite possible that Morty was a Hylden agent since the beginning - perhaps creating a chink in the binding which allowed the Hylden to communicate with Nosgoth and set up their manipulations.

[Smoke_Z]

I was thinking "Before Collapse" I know that the time between the corruption and the collapse is the only time (not counting the insignificance of Kain's jaunt to kill Willie) that we're dealing amounts of time that aren't counted in centuries.

Before Kain and After Kain could work.

[Slashed]

I think it would be before Ariel got killed, but not as early as when Janos was killed...

[Ardeth Silvereni]

Regardless of his allegiances, and how long he had held them, I think that Mortanius only became possessed shortly before Ariel was killed.

We've seen that possession 'uses up' a mortal host. Mortanius might be strong enough to survive repeated light possession - with breaks in-between to help him recover - but even he has his limits, and succumbs eventually. It's very impressive that he survived thirty years of on-off possession, when an aggressively-possessed vampire hunter in Defiance only lasted a few minutes (if I recall correctly). However, beyond thirty years, it's not impressive - it's getting more and more unbelievable, in my opinion.

[WraithStar]

Some Defiance spoilers are in my post.

Well, he *is* the Guardian of Death who has lived for centuries...I could believe that he was strong enough to withstand possession for a pretty long time. Still, I got the impression that he started working for the Hylden after he and Moebius overthrew the vampires. I figured that once the pillars had only human guardians, the Hylden would be able to reach through the binding and influence Mortanius and Azimuth enough to get them to summon Turel as a host. Then the Hylden could speak directly to them through Turel and give orders. After awhile, Mortanius has an inkling of who he's dealing with and decides that the vampires are the lesser of the two evils so he kills Ariel to allow the guardianship to pass on to Kain. Probably at this point Nupraptor's madness weakens the pillars enough for the Hylden to possess a guardian. Mortanius struggles against them enough to set up his plans for Kain to purify the circle. The Hylden get more desperate and fully possess him at the end of BO1.

[TBS]

just a point - Mortanius didnt murder Ariel (at least not of his own free will), that was all part of the Hylden's scheme:

The Unspoken:
Indeed. Such narrow vision. Don’t you see? My silencing of Ariel, and its calculated repercussions, is but the first act in my theatre of Grand Guignol. Of which you are the tragic ”hero.”

Play on, little vampire, play on . . .

[WraithStar]

Right. (I haven't gotten a copy of BO1 yet or I wouldn't have made that mistake) At any rate, Mortanius used Ariel's death in his plans to fight the Hylden and he knew that Ariel's replacement, Kain, was the Scion of Balance.

Some dialogue from Defiance (courtesy of Dark Chronicle):

Mortanius:
Ah, now you think of that. But as I told you, you are too late. The Heart has served its function. I have used it to set prophecy in motion. I created the champion foretold by my masters, who is destined to be your destroyer. The Scion of Balance will save Nosgoth - the Pillars will return to Vampire guardianship as intended, and your race will be cast down forever.

Raziel:
Kain. You used the Heart of Darkness to create Kain.

Mortanius:
How else? I refused at first to believe the ancient myths. I thought the vampires were simply a plague upon mankind, a pestilence we had to control. But they were right, and we were wrong to overthrow them - Moebius and I. We didn't understand what it was the Pillars were holding back. I have made my atonement. I will continue to make it to the end, which will be soon, now. But I know - Kain will set it right, he will restore Balance -

[TBS]

yeah mortanius had kain killed and then raised him as a vampire to strike a blow against the Hylden...however that was quite possibly what they wanted - the circle needed to be destroyed to completely undo the binding and Kain did that. Of course he then defeated them...but that was presumeably not part of their plan

The Unspoken:
You thought yourself a king when in fact you were a pawn! You have served me well, Kain.

[WraithStar]

Right. What I was trying to say is that I think Mortanius had enough control to carry out the Hylden's plans on his own terms. They wanted the Circle destroyed by Nupraptor's madness but I think that Mortanius was able to calculate Ariel's death precisely to allow the Scion of Balance to take over guardianship. The Hylden wanted the guardians to be killed so they allowed Mortanius to raise Kain and set him on his path. Once they realized that Kain was more powerful than they thought, they possessed Mortanius in order to kill Kain themselves. They failed, of course. That's my take on things

[The Just]

Originally Posted by goblin981

I say he was probably working for the Hylden back then,

but in Defiance when raziel was in Avernus Mortanius said that his enemy was getting stronger, could this be against the Hylden since the Dark Entity was possessing him?

[Smoke_Z]

I think that Morty's creation of Kain was a reaction to realizing his mistakes. I don't think Kain could become the Scion until he was a vampire. It's just that circumstances became so that Kain was the last chance for the scion of balance to be created.

[The Just]

Originally Posted by Smoke_Z

I think that Morty's creation of Kain was a reaction to realizing his mistakes. I don't think Kain could become the Scion until he was a vampire. It's just that circumstances became so that Kain was the last chance for the scion of balance to be created.

yeah, because he said it himself, he did not think the vampire legends were true, and Mortanius's killing Ariel also concludes Kain becoming the Scion of balance. Mortanius said that by doing the act of creating kain would redeem him and all nosgoth

[Raziel'sRevenge]

I think that Mortanius has been possessed for quite some time. It makes sense that he would turn to the Hylden to help him in his conquest to "wipe out the vampiric scourge", so he didn't realize how much damage he was doing. He could have been working for them from literally almost the day he was born. Then he caught on that the vampires were more important then they seemed, and realized just who he was dealing with. In comes BO1. He has Kain killed and turned into a vampire to fix his mistake, but things have already progressed quite far, and the Hylden try to use this to thier advantage. Kain refuses the sacrifice, pilliars are downed, and now the Hylden have their chance.

But that's just what I think happened.

[The Just]

I wander though, did the dark entity have possession over both Turel and Mortanius before Raziel entered the cathedral, and after Turels death, did the entity still keep possession over Mortanius while using Janos as a vessel

[Smoke_Z]

Raziel'sRevenge has kinda the same thought I had on this matter.

The Just: Morty was already dead when Janos got possessed.