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#1
06-02-2004, 07:21 PM
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Calling all mod makers! Calling all mod makers!
Parallels of this thread can be found here
http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php...=0#entry329874 and here http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...55#post1045855 I intend to gather up a mod team to fix the many small letdowns Thief 3 contained for the fans of the series. Since the original Deus Ex, Warren Spector seems to have taken Ion Studios in a different direction. The sequel to one of the greatest games of all time, Deus Ex, was an incredible letdown because it was watered down for a multiconsole release. Fortunately Thief was a much more narrow and simple game to begin with. You still chose how to handle a situation, but it was always limited to stealth. The gameplay mechanics were much more simple. For that reason, Thief 3 doesnt suffer from consolitis nearly as badly as DX:IW did, but if you look hard enough many flaws can be found. Most of these, with a dedicated mod team, could be fixed. I understand that without official word on a development kit release, it would be frivolous of anyone to gather up a serious mod team. However, the basic structure of Thief 3 is known. It runs on the Unreal Warfare engine and thus is limited to that technology. That is why I ask everyone with any form of computer knowledge useful for modding to step forward and join the PseudoModTeam.(this name will be changed to a name voted on by the members of the team, when it's actually a team) It is called this since none of the members will be actively modding Thief 3, but will be prepared to do so if the opportunity arises. If you're not sure if you will be available for the team when/if the development tools are released, that is okay. You are welcome to join anyway. We need some structure now so when they come out we will be prepared to optimize the Thief 3 PC gaming experience ASAP! Potential tweaks on the agenda of the PseudoModTeam are... softer bumpmapping on faces (and some bodies) -The bumpmapping in the game is overly noticable on the faces as well as some bodies. I think this is because such details probably look very nice on an xbox console from half way across the room, but too thick and cartoonlike for computer users. photorealistic faces -Some look really pathetic. light spreading hair (instead of hard shadows) -Hair, especially women's hair, looks horrible when half of the head is covered by a shadow. The shadow line is dark and sharp, unlike how shadows truely fall on a head of hair. If possible, this will be fixed. higher moss texture resolution(and possibly other texture tweaks) -'Nuff said. wider city streets -If you think this is an unrealistic goal, ask someone who knows how to use UnrealEd what they think. new areas -The story will not be modified, but new areas in the game meant solely for thieving would be nice. new side missions -There are many side missions in TDS that arent objectives, simply notes. More side missions like this as well as objective based side missions will be added to the core of the game. new mix n match textures and meshes -Identical people show up too much on the city streets. There will be new meshes and skins added so the randomly spawned pedestrians dont often show up twice on the same level. fixed camera perspectives -The camera is nearly tip top, but certain camera modes could use tweaking, such as wall climb (easy tweaks of the camera ini, but they will also be present in the mod.) tweaked physics -Nearly perfect as well but a few things could be fixed and already have been if you search through the ini editing threads. The best of ini edits will be present in the mod to make it run smoother. more enterable buildings -Everyone is complaining about this. Some dead doors, if not all, will be turned into real stores, houses etc to rob. rope arrows -They might not have been added simply to avoid xbox control issues, or perhaps because it was too difficult to do in the new engine, so there's no saying how easy or difficult it will be. better voice actors -Don't get me wrong, most of the voice acting was incredible and interesting to listen to. Black Market Bertha was quite annoying though, for one. accessible rooftops -We all miss the rooftop levels. Rooftops will be accessible with plenty of open windows to sneak into. removal of Garrett's eye scar -To say the least so the story isn't ruined for those who haven't yet played the original Thief, Garret's scar is not consistant with the injury he actually sustained. slightly improved AI -No more blaming of Garrett for crimes that one cannot prove he committed, if possible. The team will not be limited to these goals, nor will all of them likely be completed. Any changes are possible since the team has no definite shape yet. ALL positions are open and multiple slots are available for each position. Please offer any questions, comments, suggestions, and criticisms by contacting me on aim or doing the obvious and posting in this thread. I ask also that the moderators sticky this thread if they find it worthy. AIM:Ethan20000 MSN:Ethan20000@aol.com Yahoo Email:Arachno25@yahoo.com [EDIT](and it will be often. Check back to this post for updates) The current potential members of the mod are as follows In order of appearance Princess_Frosty: Mapper Choscura: Texture Artist Bloodriot: Modeler and Movie Animator(?) Kokopelli: Mapper K^2: Tools Developer zmikez: Texture Artist Datoyminaytah: Mapper Nupraptor: Voice Actor Do note members that you aren't limited to your currently assigned tags, nor does the tag have any bearing on your right to give as many suggestions as you please. Last edited by 655321; 06-04-2004 at 11:04 AM. 
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#2
06-02-2004, 10:53 PM
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I would be very interested in working on a mod for thief 3, im a mapper for a mod based on the UT2004 engine (modified UW) and am very familiar with the engine already.
If modding tools were released making maps would be very very easy as theres lots of static meshes used throughout the game which you could just bung in. Obviously we could add new content but making maps would be a LOT faster, all the raw material is already there. But i wouldn't do work for a half assed mod, if we're going to fix thief 3 then it has to be done properly, we need to reutrn the game to be more like thief 2. This means at least: Remove 3rd person Remove glittering loot Remove streaks on arrows Change the highlighting of objects to remove the stupid blue tint and just have a highlight. Remove first person self player model so you can't see your arms and feet. Remove stupid blue glowing portals when loading. They're my major gripes, i like idea of bringing back rope arrows and a lot of the other ideas you've got are good aswell, although some are less important that the ones above. If you're prepared to take a mod team far enough to do most of the above then i'd be happy to do some mapping for you. The best idea would be to have an extra part of the city which is accessable from right near the start of the game, this area would be the richest part of town maybe, several smaller buildings built into the streets themselfs (i was always disapointed with the lack of "standard" buildings to break into in the normal streets) Then there could be several main missions linked within which you can access straight away. I think also we could make the actual extra city area a lot bigger than some of the current ones, with the use of zoning and anti portals you can make MASSIVE areas with the UW engine and have it only render what you can see (which is why the paths are so windy in the streets) The only side effect is loading times, really long on the Xbox i hear which means area size is a restriction carried on from the xbox to the PC, my loading times were very fast actually. Some of the city areas were dissapointing aswell, the taverns and pubs are tiny with like 1-2 tables etc Anyways i've added you to my msn, if you're serious about the project and will consider my suggestions stated near the top of my post, and we can get the modding tools then i'd happily do the main street area and probably another sub mission in that street area for you.
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#3
06-02-2004, 11:03 PM
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Someone's actually already fixed some of the most basic of these things. Here's a link - if anyone else can host it, that'd be nice, too, since I don't know who's link this is and I don't want everyone sucking up their bandwidth. :P
http://dark_god7.home.mindspring.com...r_by_Myagi.zip Unzip it, put it in the TDS system folder, run it and enjoy! You can change the frob color/intensity, turn loot percentage on/off, turn loot bling on/off and get rid of the arrow trails. I set mine to 0.05 0.05 0.03 for the frob glow (you'll see what I mean when you run it) and it very closely resembles the original Thief highlighting (that yellowish color). As for the other stuff, I wish I had something I could offer to help with, but I don't. I wish you guys all the best, though, and hope that you can accomplish at least some of what you set out to do. It would be awesome, especially if they don't release an editor.
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#4
06-02-2004, 11:05 PM
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Whoever made that would be great to have as one of the lead coders for the mod, they sound like the know what they're doing. Worth contacting to find out i think.
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#5
06-02-2004, 11:07 PM
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#6
06-02-2004, 11:08 PM
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Yeah, I don't know them, but the link is from the Ion Storm Thief 3 forums. Might wanna check it out and ask around there for your modteam as well. Someone there even unlocked the debug menu. Probably some very talented people among them if you're hoping to accomplish this stuff.
Here's another great alternative HUD. It's much smaller, and obviously designed for the PC as opposed to the original which is clearly for Xbox. It makes the shadow gem much smaller, as well as the "weapon cycles" and health meter. http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php...210775&hl=nazu Last edited by Stalin; 06-02-2004 at 11:11 PM.
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#7
06-02-2004, 11:28 PM
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Well we already know how to change a lot of the things we need for the mod via what some people have already done, might even be worth recruiting one of these guys to work on the HUD specifically
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#8
06-02-2004, 11:37 PM
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To Princess_Frosty:I don't think 3rd person is a big deal, since you dont need to use it. It will be up to the team whether to remove it or not though. I appreciate your input and welcome to the PseudoTeam. Understand there are currently no obligations, so dont feel you're tied down.
To Stalin:I know there are many minor ini fixes, I stated it in my original post. Not only would this mod tweak the things an ini cannot, it would also include the ini fixes. Thanks for the link though. To Neutrino: Ditto This thread is not, however, for discussing ini fixes. There are enough threads on that already. We don't want information too widely stretched or it will be harder to find it all in one place. This thread is for finding potential members for this huge task.
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#9
06-02-2004, 11:44 PM
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i may be able to help out with textures, if needed. if you read my last thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...threadid=39450), i'll bet you can kind of see how pissed i am.
also, i think a lot of the 'map shortcuts' should be taken out- not the keeper portals, the general slopiness. doors leading to nowhere (outside garetts house, across the fountain, under the porch theres a passage way to the guard house. above the porch? theres a door. i wonder where it goes....). also, when the thief map editor comes out, i may do some new areas of the city- these block-and-a-half skimpy little sections just don't cut it. this is supposed to be a big city, not a small town! -Choscura "ooh! linens....." -last words of female servant in Thief: deadly shadows
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#10
06-03-2004, 12:10 AM
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Well this sounds very promising, we'd need at least 1 more mapper and a lead coder for the harder stuff, still mostly tweaks than actuall additions to the game so it shouldn't be anything to hard. Probably the rope arrows would be the hardest, half the stuff can be done in the ini file
 I might get a few overhead concept sketches done for the main city area, it seems like im in the same vein of thinking with most other people. City sections need to be larger (less loading but longer load times) Buildings need to be more accessable, roof enterances and most window enterances. We need more buildings in the area which are just flat type living areas with lots of peoples homes you can just break into and rob for a bit of loot, something to do while moving between missions. How does a main street area set in the richest distric of the city sound? Its own shop where you can sell all types of loot, and a shop where you can buy all the supplies, the whole area would be a medium to difficult hardness setting and the missions should be aswell. A few features should include: A fully working sewer system below the city A large tavern/pub with cellar and rooms for rent above Maybe a small guard/police station heavily guarded At least 6-7 enterable houses/flats At least 3-4 enterable assorted shops Shops for selling loot and buying tools/weapons A Marketplace A small Park Enterances to at least 3-4 missions made by other mappers and myself Rooftop access across most of the area Lots of secret areas to keep people busy Sound good? Any comments or additions, we can't make it too massive, but i think aiming for about twice the size of the most of the thief street areas.
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#11
06-03-2004, 12:34 AM
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Here's a couple other people you may want to contact:
http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php?showtopic=211028 http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php...975&hl=texture I don't have any time to help with anything myself, but it sounds like a promising endeavor and I definitely hope you succeed. One suggestion I have is that I think it might be a good idea to focus on polishing and fixing all the little things first before planning any huge map changes and such. It's really easy to make a project to large. But if you can take it one step at a time it has a lot more chance of being completed. Just an idea. Last edited by Neutrino64; 06-03-2004 at 12:39 AM.
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#12
06-03-2004, 12:36 AM
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Also, have an animator fix the dorky climbing sequence.
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#13
06-03-2004, 12:54 AM
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Yeah it looks like theres some other guys willing to make a contribution towards thief 3, if we could round up some of these people we could make a lot of changes.
I hope after all of this the editor gets released.
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#14
06-03-2004, 01:06 AM
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Instead of working on the Original TDS storyline, why dont you instead create a brand new Free City with lot's of city areas and doors that could be assigned to missions.
If a mod community could be organized, you could start with something simillar to Jedi Academy's OJP (Open Jedi Project), A base team would make a new City with lots of doors (probably just dummy doors at start) but this free city would offer alot of those mentioned city scape areas and both in-team mappers and outside-team mappers would submit the new missions they make, and if they pass some quality assurance evaluation or something, they'd get assigned to one of those dummy doors that would now house a new mission... the city grows according to the number of new maps. Well this is kinda massive, but it would probably expand this game's lifespan immensely. Cheers.
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#15
06-03-2004, 01:17 AM
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I like the idea a lot, however doing an entire storyline is probably not a good idea, to hard to impliment with all the different maps we'd recieve.
Its a good start to build up our own single area of the map and add a few missions onto that street area. Then we can go from there, if we get several maps sent to us which are of good enough quality then when we have enough we can simply slap together another section of city which leads to these areas. It would be far better just to stick with a simple premis that you're playing Garrett in his more day to day thieving which doesn't really have a plot, just robbing from rich people to earn his keep for the week. Obviously individual maps can have their own sub plot, which can run along the lines of anything the mapper likes, as long as nothing has changed on the grand scale of things, Garrett still has all his limbs, his home hasnt been found, city not burnt to the ground, that sorta thing.
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#16
06-03-2004, 01:19 AM
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On TTLG, Digital Nightfall has some of us working on a Thief tweaking tool:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83862
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#17
06-03-2004, 01:35 AM
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If that no storyline city with that simple premiss as you put it could be achieved... everything else could too. I suppose it's the base for anything.
There are even some people out there that can do cutscenes and other 3d related stuff (yeah yeah me included  ) and I suppose there's someone out there with a knack for voices that can impersonate Garrett to a satisfatory level for the briefings and his one linners
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#18
06-03-2004, 08:13 AM
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Need to bump this...
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#23
06-03-2004, 04:38 PM
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Instead of removing: Loot Glint, Highlighted objects, arrow trails
and so on. Why not make them an option to turn them on/ off. That would make most sense, some users may not like the highlighted doors, but still the arrow trails, i can think of many other combinations. I myself wouldn't like all that stuff off, but most of it. Leave it up to the users, that way everyones happy Just my suggestion though.
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#24
06-03-2004, 04:50 PM
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could you get rid of the some of the minor loadings? or introduce a fog effect where you have limited visiblity but you dont need to load... (im talking miles)
anyway in thief 1 you had a huge area you had the whole city then you had a underground city to explore need i say more on the size gap between this one and thief 3
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