[SPOILERS] BO2 - A Paradox ?!?!

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

I dont see how Janos and Kain can exist in BO2. People are gonna say oh, but Kain is the Scion of Balance. True, but how so ?

Think about it, the Scion of Balance can only be healed when all the soulds of the previous guardians are absorbed into the Wraith Blade and for Raziel himself to be in the Reaver, thus the Soul Reaver is born pure of all corruption. When SR2 ends, BO2 implies that Raziel enters the sword, however the sword is technically not corrupt, but its not "baptised with the spirit guardians soul" (as Ariel put it) either.

This also means that regardless of the future that SR1 represents, Raziels' free will allows a paradox if you like, no ? Think about it, Raziel is the only pawn that has his fate in his own hands and doesnt abide by the "wheel of fate" that every other being is obligated to live by.

Defiance does allow for BO2 to be possible but it also means that to some extent BO2 will never be possible as well. Therefore we can accept some events to be in Defiance 2 but not all of them are plausible either.


PEACE OUT !!!

[Jidai Geki]

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. Why shouldn't Kain and Janos exist? Janos was raised by Raziel, and Kain is simply the young Kain, and has not yet realised his destiny as Scion.

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

Originally posted by Jidai Geki
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. Why shouldn't Kain and Janos exist? Janos was raised by Raziel, and Kain is simply the young Kain, and has not yet realised his destiny as Scion.

Think about what you're saying here. Kain the vampire was created due to Janos's infamous "heart of darkness" so how can either of them exist at the same time ? Young Kain is not the Scion of Balance yet, or at least in the way we would think.


PEACE OUT !!!

[f5lesnar]

Well since BO2 occurs after Defiance and before SR1, the Reaver Kain->Sarafan Lord->Kain carries is the purified Reaver. As the Reaver when Kain breaks it over Raziel in SR1. As your comments about Janos and Kain not being BO2, have you played both games? Janos is restored, possessed by Sarafan Lord. Kain continues his journey from BO1. The Kain at the end of Defiance is the one who must restore Nosgoth. Now I've heard theories(as absurd as they are) about two Raziels running around. Well now there are two Kains in the same time period with the Soul Reaver.

[Jidai Geki]

Originally posted by babifrence
Hiya Peeps,



Think about what you're saying here. Kain the vampire was created due to Janos's infamous "heart of darkness" so how can either of them exist at the same time ? Young Kain is not the Scion of Balance yet, or at least in the way we would think.


PEACE OUT !!!

Ah I see your point now. I think you're right, there is a paradox here, much as with the twinned Reaver. The heart Janos was restored with was the one torn from old Kain, who shouldn't, strictly speaking, have been in that timeline. And so both Janos and young Kain have the same heart, but from different times. Majorly confusing.

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

Originally posted by f5lesnar
Well since BO2 occurs after Defiance and before SR1, the Reaver Kain->Sarafan Lord->Kain carries is the purified Reaver. As the Reaver when Kain breaks it over Raziel in SR1. As your comments about Janos and Kain not being BO2, have you played both games? Janos is restored, possessed by Sarafan Lord. Kain continues his journey from BO1. The Kain at the end of Defiance is the one who must restore Nosgoth. Now I've heard theories(as absurd as they are) about two Raziels running around. Well now there are two Kains in the same time period with the Soul Reaver.

I think you have baffled me even more, lol . But seriously, when SR2 ends, the implication BO2 gives is that Raziel has entered the Reaver at this point which means the Reaver is not purified because it doesnt have the souls of the previous guardians at that point. Forget the timeline for now, consider the actual situations that have gone on and then consider the timeline. Defiance occurs after BO2 in the theoretical sense because BO2 was meant to continue after SR2. Defiance technically occurs after SR2 due to the timeline and the situations where BO2 doesnt.

So the order in the theoretical sense would have been:

BO1 SR1 SR2 BO2


but the actual order is: -

BO1 SR1 SR2 Defiance


As you can see I deliberately missed BO2 out because it hasnt happened and from what has truely gone on, it will never happen. Due to Kain now being healed because of Raziel's sacrifice and his will to heal the Scion of Balance, he has given hope to Nosgoth and allowed Kain to fully evolve as his ancients did. HE WILL GROW WINGS, its just a matter of time now.


PEACE OUT !!!

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

Originally posted by Jidai Geki
Ah I see your point now. I think you're right, there is a paradox here, much as with the twinned Reaver. The heart Janos was restored with was the one torn from old Kain, who shouldn't, strictly speaking, have been in that timeline. And so both Janos and young Kain have the same heart, but from different times. Majorly confusing.

Im glad you see my point . How can CD explain this, lol .


PEACE OUT !!!

[Vampmaster]

So Janos heart is over three millenia older than the rest of him since it spent that amount of time inside Kain before being brought back in time and returned to him.

What was said in the game is that the Spirit Reaver is imbued with the souls of all the previous Balance guardians. Janos was the Reaver guardian, not the guardian of the Pillar of Balance. Thurthermore only 9 of the ancients were infact pillar guardians and those were the ones from the forges.

I wonder what happened to the first Balance guardian. What if it was Kain and he'd been around the wheel of fate and reborn as a human.

[LOK kain is the greatest]

um guys.. wasn't it supposed to be Janos's body in the machine.......not his heart????


Luv KITG

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

Originally posted by LOK kain is the greatest
um guys.. wasn't it supposed to be Janos's body in the machine.......not his heart????


Luv KITG

Duely noted, but consider this - without a heart how would Janos power the device , if in Defiance his body lay dormant because his heart wasnt in his body then how would he power the device ? This wasnt a discussion about Janos powering the device anyway, it was about the paradox of Kain and Janos existing at the same time when technically they have the same exact heart (literally) in the BO2 era.


PEACE OUT !!!

[f5lesnar]

Does it really matter if Kain and Janos shared the same heart in BO2? When they were together nothing happened, so it doesn't matter. The only thing that can cause a paradox is Raziel and the Soul Reavers.

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

Originally posted by f5lesnar
Does it really matter if Kain and Janos shared the same heart in BO2? When they were together nothing happened, so it doesn't matter. The only thing that can cause a paradox is Raziel and the Soul Reavers.

I dont think you seem to get it my friend. Janos and Kain dont share the same heart they have 1 and the same heart. The point is, that the BO2 era is paradoxically inaccurate. Kain is not the Scion of Balance in BO2 (as Scion of Balance Kain doesnt need a heart as he is healed through Raziels sacrifice and thus the Soul Reaver is rendered pure allowing Kain's destiny to reach closer and "tasting that bitter illusion - HOPE").

So how can Janos and Kain have the same heart and exist at the same time when their hearts are the one and the same ? Defiance is the exception as I have said before as this is the first time we are introduced to a prophecy about the Scion of Balance and fortunately for CD , he so becomes that Scion in the same game and not a later one.

As you might be able to tell now, the question is still unanswerable.


PEACE OUT !!!

[LOKFan]

In BO2,

The Heart of Darkness in Kain came from Mortanius who got it from Avernus, which was where the Sarafan had hidden it after ripping it out from Janos.

The Heart of Darkness in Janos came from Raziel who ripped it out of an older Kain.

In a sense, Kain and Janos do not have the same, identical heart since one of them is at least 1100 years older than the other.

[card]

it's just like saying that there are two Kains and that can't be
it's not such a big problem, it can't really be a paradox.

[kain lestat]

well u can't really say the hearts can't cause a paradox, the only different would be the age of 'em. it's like saying u say and 80 year old form of urself traveling back from the future, some kinda paradox is gonna happen because u kno wat you gonna look like in the future. and also maybe this is just a minor detail they messed up on, do y'all have to make everything big, i never even seen this as any kind of problem, why make it one? you can't have everything perfect. CD or whoever made the plot made it so it would fit, like how malek was late to save the circle or how turel was missing from SR1, isn't that good enough for u people, do u have to have an explaination for why there aint a paradox with janos'/ kain's heart? maybe they just over look it and fix it later.

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

Originally posted by kain lestat
well u can't really say the hearts can't cause a paradox, the only different would be the age of 'em. it's like saying u say and 80 year old form of urself traveling back from the future, some kinda paradox is gonna happen because u kno wat you gonna look like in the future. and also maybe this is just a minor detail they messed up on, do y'all have to make everything big, i never even seen this as any kind of problem, why make it one? you can't have everything perfect. CD or whoever made the plot made it so it would fit, like how malek was late to save the circle or how turel was missing from SR1, isn't that good enough for u people, do u have to have an explaination for why there aint a paradox with janos'/ kain's heart? maybe they just over look it and fix it later.

Whats wrong with having a theory based on the LoK games ? Most of the aftermath of the gameplay is based on theory and CD play on the some of the time (IMO). They too as well as the LoK community read our posts from what I've learnt since being here so we can safely presume that they have used some of our ideas and produced their own concepts using us as a form of adaptation or at least a way for their story to agree with the fans and opened up a whole new can of worms as it were.

If CD had overlooked the LoK series, then why is it so successful ? Do you think that CD one day decided to franchise an existing story, decide they could make a few quick bucks by creating an extenuating adaptation of the story and that was that ? I think not my friend. I havent heard of Crystal Dynamics until Legacy of Kain had created Soul Reaver 1. If they were lazy we could probably presume that Soul Reaver would be a one hit wonder, but they arn't. They have created 4 games plus aided in another franchise company in creating BO2 (I think).

Games dont make profit if they discarded or overlooked storylines. In the business these days, if you wanna make money, all angles of what your doing has to be looked at and checked continuously for any thing that maybe left out as well as creating multiple drafts of scripts, transcripts, programming source code, etc...

99% of the actual circumstances that go on in the game can be explained, particularly the time travelling issue. Theres probably 1% to 0% of the game that cant be explained, such as why Raziel can talk whilst he has no lower jaw or perhaps why Kain has been dipicted 4-5 different ways since the LoK series began. (BO1 - original, SR1 - his face was quite chubby and his skin was completely different, SR2 - Kain was perfectly drawn and could move his mouth due to technological enhancements & BO2 - Kain was drawn as a young fledgling with white flesh). In Defiance his signet earring changed colour from a metallic chrome to a bluish colour ?


PEACE OUT !!!

[KainOFthehylden]

Originally posted by babifrence




Theres probably 1% to 0% of the game that cant be explained, such as why Raziel can talk whilst he has no lower jaw or perhaps why Kain has been dipicted 4-5 different ways since the LoK series began. (BO1 - original, SR1 - his face was quite chubby and his skin was completely different, SR2 - Kain was perfectly drawn and could move his mouth due to technological enhancements & BO2 - Kain was drawn as a young fledgling with white flesh). In Defiance his signet earring changed colour from a metallic chrome to a bluish colour ?


PEACE OUT !!! [/B]

also there's how raziel can narate to us his story if he was absorbed at last in the reaver

[LOK kain is the greatest]

hey babifrence

Let me get this straight.

you say Kain and janos have the same heart

I agree with that

then you say it would create a paradox

This is where i get stuck. i don't think it would cause a Paradox. this is my reasoning.

the first paradox Happened because the two soule reavers clased together in BO. the second happened when Kaind tried to make the reaver devour raziels soul. then later when Raziel refused to kill kain.
I think the oly reason that there is no paradox between Janos and Kain is for one thing. their Hearts never touch, and they are not trying to do a monumental decision that alters fate.


Luv KITG

[kain lestat]

like how cd had to cut out some parts of sr1 and turel was one of 'em, i'm just saying maybe they simply over looked it and would fix it in the future, in not saying they will or will not leave it the way it is ( i'm talking to BabiFrence) i'm just saying they might fix it in the future by putting in some type of info that could explain it if they wanted to.

and also why u worried about to hearts when raziel met himself about 2 millenium younger? the only difference between the final battle in sr2 and the hearts in Defiance was that the Blue raziel was alot older then the human one then the hearts were to each other.