things fans want in LOK 6

[goblin981]

Having the choice in where/when to go while still having a linear game would work well.

[Vampmaster]

Originally Posted by Fuse

Ok,From Blood Omen 2 to an as it were a would have been blood omen 3, With out it kain never raises his vampire sons and never builds his empire or even the time that the vampires evolve. (After the end of Soul Reaver 1.) So There Still Needs to be that part to it. Even If you have to go back in time. (The Older Kain) He can go back in to time the help the younger kain bulid his empire. With out it there would be a pardox and kain would die young. (You must understand time to understand your destiny.) So You See If Bo3 is not going to be made then that must be made into the game(s) after defince. That way you can eather help the vampires evolve or you could add a dark hellish version or dark cloud 2's house buliding thing to kain's building of his empire. So anyway that means that kain is at the end of blood omen 1 at the end of defince. Ok Well,then kain will use time travel maby more in this game(s). That way the missing times that you don't get to it in past game(s) you could see in the future games. I hope to see what the group will do to replace amy hening. I have'nt heard of her being replaced? This the best thing that I can come up with so that you can see the events of bo3/pre-soul reaver and anything else that I may have missed. Defince is over. Pre-Bo2 begins. The Key Is More Time Travel. -Fuse

You're saying there needs to be a game for every part of Kain's life or that part of his life doesn't exist. Just because it skipped forward a few years and refered to it later doesn't mean it's a paradox. If if even doesn't mention what happened during that time, then it's a plot hole, but if he'd said "oh, by the way Vorador was brought back to life" (but phrased a lot better) then it wouldn't. And both Kain and Raziel have said loads of times that Kain raised the sarafan as his lieutenants, so it did happen even if we havn't seen that part. Also, we've seen the pillars, so just because we havn't seen them being built desn't mean they weren't built. A lot of those things it would be nice to see in another game but as long as stuff gets mentioned as having happened then it happened.

Originally Posted by goblin981

Having the choice in where/when to go while still having a linear game would work well.

That means secrets! Perhaps the game (for the story's sake) could assume the player got all nine pillar spells by the end of the game, but let the player possibly miss some of them. Or just make so that the pillar spells are complulsory and have other stuff that's optional. There should be whole areas and puzzles dedicated to secrets like the SR1 glyphs had. Perhaps even hidden bosses. One of my favourate puzzles in the series was the fire glyph puzzle in SR1. I also liked how you got an extra bit of cutscene if you shifted into spectral when fighting Dumah.

[goblin981]

Originally Posted by Vampmaster

That means secrets! Perhaps the game (for the story's sake) could assume the player got all nine pillar spells by the end of the game, but let the player possibly miss some of them. Or just make so that the pillar spells are complulsory and have other stuff that's optional. There should be whole areas and puzzles dedicated to secrets like the SR1 glyphs had. Perhaps even hidden bosses. One of my favourate puzzles in the series was the fire glyph puzzle in SR1. I also liked how you got an extra bit of cutscene if you shifted into spectral when fighting Dumah.

I'll second that. I love that SR1 had stuff you didn't need to do.

[Raziel'sRevenge]

And I'll third that! It's nice having extras that go beyond health upgrades and such. One of my favorite parts of BO1 was all the little things you could find. There was an entire freaking city that you could miss! If the new game had hidden spells or entire secret areas I'd love it.

[CrossHQ]

Suggestions: Something epic like a war, Vampires v.s. Hylden(or the Elder God), of course this is just an example...

-Raziel could return to us in a different sort of way (since he is trapped in the reaver);
-i would REALLY like to explore Nosgoth;
- And when you finished the game you could travel back in time (or future) (Sarafan era, etc.) just to see the changes and to fight some exclusive enemys from that time.

[BigKevSexyMan]

I'd definately want another place like the lost city in BO1. Only bigger. I mean BIGGER!!!!

[Vampmaster]

Like the size of the human citadel? That was an area you didn't have to go, but could go there for secrets and stuff. They should have put more stuff there to find cause it was so mysterious having this huge area that you didn't need to go to.

In LOK6, Kain should be able to use the timestreaming devices as often as he wants. But obviously only go to the specific eras they are tuned to. Like if in SR2, you could have gained an ability in the second ot third era of the game, then gone back to the first era to find a whole new area opened (the size of the gylph areas in SR1) and unlock some secret ability there.

[BigKevSexyMan]

Like the size of the human citadel? That was an area you didn't have to go, but could go there for secrets and stuff. They should have put more stuff there to find cause it was so mysterious having this huge area that you didn't need to go to.

Bigger! This should be a place where another area is unlocked everytime you get a new power. Filled with puzzles and fighting.

In LOK6, Kain should be able to use the timestreaming devices as often as he wants. But obviously only go to the specific eras they are tuned to. Like if in SR2, you could have gained an ability in the second ot third era of the game, then gone back to the first era to find a whole new area opened (the size of the gylph areas in SR1) and unlock some secret ability there.

I'm not sure if they should do that. Unless it's a major part of the storyline then timetravel should be left alone.

[Raziel'sRevenge]

Originally Posted by BigKevSexyMan

Bigger! This should be a place where another area is unlocked everytime you get a new power. Filled with puzzles and fighting.

Actually I'd rather have several medium to small sized secret area's to explore, that way you get more diversity and you discover more things each time.

Originally Posted by Vampmaster

In LOK6, Kain should be able to use the timestreaming devices as often as he wants. But obviously only go to the specific eras they are tuned to. Like if in SR2, you could have gained an ability in the second ot third era of the game, then gone back to the first era to find a whole new area opened (the size of the gylph areas in SR1) and unlock some secret ability there.

Exactly! I love it!

[BigKevSexyMan]

Actually I'd rather have several medium to small sized secret area's to explore, that way you get more diversity and you discover more things each time.

Nothing wrong with having all of those, too. But I still think they should have an area like I described.

[Binky24]

I think I like the Soul Reaver option best. Medium-to-large size puzzles, no timestreaming. Call me a conservatist, if you will.
But - you speak of new powers. What new powers can there be? Somehow, for the life of me, I can't imagine Kain swimming. Flying, possibly, except that I can just about see how frustrating the practical/gameplay side of it would probably be for me.
Gaining new immunities? I think all he's not immune to right now is fire, water, and possibly Glyph energy.
The nine Pillar Glyphs? Right now, he already sort of has five of them, hasn't he? Although Slow Time at will would certainly be nice.

[Raziel'sRevenge]

I personally would like more control of the TK. Other than that I'm not really sure what new powers Kain can get without it getting a bit silly. I would like to see the powers that Kain has lost re-appear though. I miss wolf form, and there's nearly limitless uses for beguile. Also, think of the possibilities for mind control. I think that we've got just about enough uses for the reaver as it is, if there's going to be more powers then they should be things directly linked to Kain.

[Vampmaster]

Originally Posted by Binky24

I think I like the Soul Reaver option best. Medium-to-large size puzzles, no timestreaming. Call me a conservatist, if you will.
But - you speak of new powers. What new powers can there be? Somehow, for the life of me, I can't imagine Kain swimming. Flying, possibly, except that I can just about see how frustrating the practical/gameplay side of it would probably be for me.
Gaining new immunities? I think all he's not immune to right now is fire, water, and possibly Glyph energy.
The nine Pillar Glyphs? Right now, he already sort of has five of them, hasn't he? Although Slow Time at will would certainly be nice.

Yeah well, the functionality could be improved a bit. The spells Kain had were a bit weak and seemed just for show. Balance should have pentalich of tarot effect, dimension might be better used as a way of getting around, or maybe he could displace enemies body parts, lightning should have a wider range and maybe he could tear enemies flesh apart (like implode) with his tk. And I meant he'd be regaining his old abilities. Maybe his BO1 abilities were rooted in the pillars and they stopped working as well because the pillars blew up so he'd substitute the power source by I don't know finding relics associated with the pillars or absorbing more souls into the reaver or whatever. He completed the balance emblem, but did you notice there were eight notches in it.

We could say that four are full and Kains compulsory abilitys to be gained in LOK6 would be the other four pillars. Then he'd have optional abilities that the player could miss. They could upgrade his abilities from defiance to ones like I suggested above. The implode like thing was what possessed Janos used on Raz so maybe he could get that from a powerful hylden (HL if he didn't die in BO1) or ancient (perhaps Janos himself, but that would be compulsory cause there's no way they'd make him optional).

[BigKevSexyMan]

The abilities I think that Kain should gain. Keep in mind the balance emblem is no more, thus it's powers are gone(Go ahead, try selecting lightning reaver when fighting EG)

Conflict-Immolation TK
Death-Death TK(Basically what you do is drain the life from the victim till it's a rotting corpse)
Dimension-
Energy-Lightning TK
Mind-Charm(all enemies)
Nature-Grow all types of vines quickly(Whether it be raising a platform or putting vines across a wall to climb on)
States-
Time-Slow Time(maybe quicken time too)

Balance-Something story related

[Binky24]

Errgh. Combat abilities are one thing, I was thinking rather of the puzzle-solving aspect, since you were discussing secrets before. Like what BigKevSexyMan wrote about the vines.
For example, maybe doing something to the Water Pillars would grant water immunity, not swimming ability as such, just water immunity. Same for Fire Pillars/fire, Earth Pillars/Glyph energy. Bit of a problem here since there's no fourth thing to go with the Air Pillars, though.

About combat abilities - I'd like to see the TK wave to be cast at will, as in the vanilla/Material/Spectral/Balance/Spirit Reaver/Force Glyph - I was really angry when any single sorceress in Defiance could use the Force Glyph at will, but the king of all vampires could do so only at fully charged Reaver! Also Immolation, as per Raziel's Fire Reaver spell. Possibly also other Raziel's Reaver spells as optional abilities.
Re the Pillar spells - actually, for the sake of continuity, I'd keep the powers they gave in Defiance to the dead Guardians, with the occassional venture into the Balance Emblem powers (assuming/hoping that it's lost):
Mind - projections which cast their own spells/fight on their own until destroyed;
Dimension - as per the Balance Emblem spell;
Nature - vines which grow and immobilise enemies;
Conflict - Hate, as per the Balance Emblem spell;
Energy - the Blood Omen Repel spell, I really liked how both deJoule and the dead Guardian in Defiance used it;
Time - Slow Time (would be also good for puzzles, I guess);
Death - lightning, but not like in the Balance Emblem, but like in the dead Guardian power, essentially sucking life out of the victim;
States - stumped on this one, since I didn't really like the dead Guardian thing - possibly lightning-type again, but this time more like in the Balance Emblem;
Balance - not touching it, although I agree with the Pentalich-type effect.

This, plus the ability to actually put on fire anything that's inflammable - he already has it, but only really in theory. I'm not sure about beguile and mind control, really, Raziel'sRevenge. I don't really see why Kain should hide, and mind control is like flying - fun in theory, but after I gained it in BO2 and still was forced to do stupid quests for some humans, I always asked myself, why can't he charm this one? 'Twas probably more frustrating than if he hadn't had the ability to begin with.
The wolf and weaponless fighting, plus all non-Balance Emblem abilities from Defiance round it up for me.
Hey, a girl can dream, can't she? Now, if only the game ever got actually made...

[Vampmaster]

Death = BO1 Spirit Death (but on all enemies)
Nature = BO1 Font of putrecsence (spell effects a enemies tk blast effects one enemy)
States = Wolf/mist/turn enemies to stone
Conflict = BO1 Enspire hate
Energy = BO1 style lightning (Not the energy bolt one, the "...call death from the sky" one) or Repel. Perhaps the telekinisis would gain the energy bolt one while energy is equipped.
Mind = Enemies in a trance or a Projectile to possess any enemy
Time = Aggreed, but it should be used in puzzles. (That aspect of the spectral realm was under-used)
Dimention = I'm sticking with my suggestion before, but he could use it whilst on markers like those red jump things that were in Defiance. Ie. replace long distance jumps with teleport and make them require him to have dimension equipped.
Balance = Pentalich of tarot

The range and damage should start low and increase as the game progresses.

I agree about the BO2 possession. Why possess boring unarmed human when you can possess a heavilly armed soldier one of those SR2/Defiance fire demons? It would have been nice to see some hylden on the receiving end of having their minds taken over.

Also, I'll say again Raziel's 7 spells + Kain's 6 = 13. So one for each of the nine pillars is feasable. And I've seen first hand what a great debugging tool the possession is.

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

Personally, it would be nice to have Kain see the pillars as his new sanctuary - like a place of rest, where he can teleport to when he's weak and needs nurishment. Kain's only ally is now hes greatest victory but his saddest comodity... the Reaver which now encapsulates Raziels soul.

Kain now holds many cards and since the coin has finally landed, only he can restore the pillars. One thing I would like to see for an ending is probably the destruction of the pillars and the veil of hatred removed from the Hylden so that they can live in harmony with the Ancients in Nosgoth.

It was the Elder God that caused all this, and once the strings of the puppets become revealed to them they will once again realise that the only ones to blame could have only been... themselves, particularly since they allowed their minds and hearts to be taken by the Elder God who encouraged and twisted everything so that his will was done.

Both Hylden and Ancient alike are at fault, it would be nice to see both races come together in the end, be restored to their former nobality and have what magic and technological forces reversed. The Elder God's existence is the veil of righteousness that plagues both races with hatred, not truely realising that there was much more sinister goings on than just meets the eye.

Sounds like a fairy tale right? Well it would be nice to see that Kain's legacy comes to a great and triumphant ending, however, as with all Legacy's the one who leaves it never tells the tale..... it is often their kin. Perhaps in this way they could develop really great spin offs or perhaps conclude a great story spanning a decade this year.

I applaud all at CD because they have done some amazing work here, and I am anticipating the long awaited TR: Legend which I will also purchase. If this is the last LoK game I may have to purchase quite a handful for my huge collection. I have even started collecting the very rare figurines that Eidos developed back in 2001 which is nearly complete.

Anyway, just my few cents that recently came to mind .


PEACE OUT !!!

[BigKevSexyMan]

You have to much hippie in your post babifrence.

Death = BO1 Spirit Death (but on all enemies)
Nature = BO1 Font of putrecsence (spell effects a enemies tk blast effects one enemy)
States = Wolf/mist/turn enemies to stone
Conflict = BO1 Enspire hate
Energy = BO1 style lightning (Not the energy bolt one, the "...call death from the sky" one) or Repel. Perhaps the telekinisis would gain the energy bolt one while energy is equipped.
Mind = Enemies in a trance or a Projectile to possess any enemy
Time = Aggreed, but it should be used in puzzles. (That aspect of the spectral realm was under-used)
Dimention = I'm sticking with my suggestion before, but he could use it whilst on markers like those red jump things that were in Defiance. Ie. replace long distance jumps with teleport and make them require him to have dimension equipped.
Balance = Pentalich of tarot

Recycling abilities just doesn't seem right to me.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally Posted by BigKevSexyMan

You have to much hippie in your post babifrence.

And you've got too much antagonism in yours. You're highly advised to review the contents of this thread (specifically aspects #5 and #6). It's really not that hard to put a little "thinking effort" in before pressing the submit button.

Any questions, comments or concerns regarding this matter (from any party) can be brought to my attention via Private Channels (PM's and/or email). With that said, this thread is now returned to it's regularly scheduled programming.

Thanks.

[Vampmaster]

Originally Posted by Forum Rules

Example of a Bad comment:

"This is a warning to all. Repent and believe in Mooberry the Cow God, lest you drown in milk for all enternity!"

LOL! Funny example.

Originally Posted by BigKevSexyMan

Recycling abilities just doesn't seem right to me.

Getting rid of the old ones to replace them with less quality ones doesn't seem right either. Although the telekinisis he has in Defiance is one exception, because it's flexibility added a really unique aspect to the gameplay in the series.

[Raziel'sRevenge]

I'm also in favor of recycling abilities. If something worked well, why not incorporate it into the next game? Now obviously you can't just remake a game and paste a new title on it, but what's wrong with keeping some of you abilities? One of the things I can't stand is how games find "clever" ways of having the protagonist lose everything they've gained. Like in the Metriod games (which are one of my favorite series, but honestly I'd like lil ol' Samus to stop going back to square one! She's a big girl, let her have some powers when you start!)

Honestly I'm worried about how strong Kain will be. Most series tend to start the character's off with barely any power, no matter what they were like the game before. I sincerely hope the next game doesn't do this. If anything, Kain should be stronger than ever before. The enemies will just have to get tougher too. That's not to say that I want a series of boss fights with nothing else *coughcoughDevilMayCrycough* but I just don't want to see yet another convenient excuse for being weak. I believe it was mentioned earlier that perhaps Kain could face hoards of enemies in a Dynasty Warriors fashion, and I'd like to agree with this, but I'm also worried that the game will get repetitious. Personally I think that if they went more of the God of War route things would be good. There were plenty of enemies, they were strong, they were varied, and each had it's own strategy.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally Posted by Vampmaster

LOL! Funny example.

Indeed! I think it was meant to be some sort of off-shoot-reference to Mooby from Dogma.

[Binky24]

Originally Posted by Raziel'sRevenge

Honestly I'm worried about how strong Kain will be. Most series tend to start the character's off with barely any power, no matter what they were like the game before. I sincerely hope the next game doesn't do this. If anything, Kain should be stronger than ever before. The enemies will just have to get tougher too.<snip>

I agree. And I must say I'm not very much against recycling enemies (or categories of enemies, at least) as well. The toughest enemies from previous games, used as common grunts: demons (and assorted flora and fauna of the demon realm), Hylden warriors (hopefully with some high-tech toys this time), Turelim vampires - plus agents of the Elder God, humans from the Citadel (perhaps they also have other toys than just flamethrowers). And sorcerers of nearly all types, of course.
Then we can move onto the really tough enemies.
Also, things which are soulless and bloodless. I still remember what a shock Malek's Bastion was for me in Blood Omen: I actually died there my first time through, lol. And the golems in Defiance were a nice variation on the theme.

[Griz]

I'd love to see some soulless, bloodless things. And no Razzy, please, he is dead and should make the distinction of being the only character in LoK history to ever die and remain that way.

I would like to see more Janos, too.

[babifrence]

Hiya Peeps,

Originally Posted by BigKevSexyMan

You have to much hippie in your post babifrence.

Personally, I have never been a fan of the 70's and not likely to be anytime in the future. I do believe that its time to have some kind of happy conclusion. Stories end with something that goes wrong or end up going wrong, and the entire story is about the journey of correcting and understanding what was wrong and why it needs to be corrected. I think the arc of the journey needs to come to a conclusive but gratifying end.

I love this series passionately, and the game im looking to develop is totally Legacy of Kain inspired. Some stories end up with an ending that are not always happy, but when someone's legacy finally comes to an end... are they ever really happy endings? Often enough the endings are the bridging gap for another sequel, but because the story is soo labyrinthian - several games are needed to full explain the story and enjoy it.

Imagine having every LoK game in one package deal - you are less likely to enjoy it because its soo samey, years of development and testing, not to mention it would cost a fortune to pay for and an entire audience to cater to. Im not a hippie and have nothing against them, id just love to see our gothic heroes have an ending worthy to call successful, triumphant but benevolant and altruistic as both Raziel and Kain always were regardless of how they were depicted.


PEACE OUT !!!