[SPOILER] Q&A With Jen Fernández, Richard Lemarchand, and Kyle Mannerberg

[blincoln]

Thanks Jen, Richard, and Kyle!

(Spoilers ahoy!)

http://www.thelostworlds.net/Defianc...chardKyle.HTML

[Vampiric Fool]

Oh oh oh! I love your Q&A sessions with people, Blincy!

Thanking you, this lays to rest many theories floating about. Namely the Devolution.

Edit: Although...

spoiler:

I'm surprised that the question of "Where both Raziels, Pre-Sword and Post-Sword absorbed into the blade?" was not asked. Oh well, Mahaps next time.

[Embla]

Thanks blinc.
Looking forwards to reading it, in about a couple of weeks time.

[Reaper007]

Dang, I read the first few questions only and I think I spoiled half of Defiance

Reaper007

[Kain's Ancient Blade]

very cool. thanks a lot blinc.

u da man.

[Shrykull]

WOW!!! I got to say, although I am desperatly waiting to play Defiance, that information just makes BO2 much more interesting and it fits it better in the story (however this was never a problem to me).

[van_HellSing PL]

blinc, you would truly deserve the name Raziel, Lord of Secrets, as you provide hidden knowledge to us all!

btw, I told ya all the Seer was a Hylden . But then again, there goes my devolution theory ...

[Umah Bloodomen]

spoiler:

I also believed that The Seer was a Hylden.

to all you skeptics.

EDIT:

Also,

spoiler:

it's good to have some confirmation on both Moebius' little game (with regard to his spirit incarnation in SR2) and to know that the Demons are not Hylden. I had a notion that the Hylden struck an alliance with the Demon race that would assist them in their return to Nosgoth).

[Shrykull]

But why did Janos say to Kain that the Hylden were the arquitects of the demons, if they are the natives of the demon dimension? Did he mean about they're appearence in the world?

[DJpick]

Jen, Richard, and Kyle mention the film 12 Monkeys at this point as an example of this concept
Interesting analogy

But that makes sense. Although wouldn't 12 monkeys be a different time idea? Maybe you can explain this better B. Cause I have seen the movie, and I just don't see the connection.

those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't.
Doesn't the idea of the paradox contradict this though? Or is it something like SR2 won't change until Kain and Raziel leave SR1, therefore during BO1 happened as it did?

Raziel is doomed to play out his circular destiny over and over again
I saw it as an example of tie forcing what was meant be. Only this time it happened as it should, and not prematurely due to Moebius.

The Seer is "an extremely powerful and mysterious Hylden
Most of the history of the Hylden has not been revealed yet, but it will be eventually.
Good, because there is SO much possibilty with their race, especially the Seer, now that it has been confirmed

The Circle was taken by surprise, and could not face Vorador without Malek to protect them
He WAS older than the current regime

Kain had understood enough of the Vampire prophecy to see the roles that he and Raziel would play, including the necessity of casting him into the Abyss.
I'm curious how Kain knew, since I haven't seen any mention of a wraith. In all the murals we have seen, it looks like an Ancient. Not a wraith.

Yes, it was because of the corruption of Kain's soul. The amount of devolution was directly related to how much of his soul they received.
Good Now that one is settled too So, it had to do with corruption AND smaller amounts.

Thanks B. Now some age old debates have been settled

But why did Janos say to Kain that the Hylden were the arquitects of the demons, if they are the natives of the demon dimension? Did he mean about they're appearence in the world?
Yes. The Hylden created the event that let the Demons into Nosgoth.

[blincoln]

Although wouldn't 12 monkeys be a different time idea? Maybe you can explain this better B. Cause I have seen the movie, and I just don't see the connection.

Spoilers if you haven't seen 12 Monkeys:

spoiler:

In 12 Monkeys, the scientists of the future have Bruce Willis try and assassinate the man who will kill off most of humanity, but he fails, because that's how the timeline always played out. His failure is what allows the future era he is from to exist at all.

[Dogfight]

spoiler:

In 12 Monkeys nothing in time was changed.

In the LOK series time is pretty much up for grabs, as long as two Soul Reavers meet and create a paradox, certain events in history can be changed.

[blincoln]

Yes, but taking the larger view, nothing has changed in Legacy of Kain, either - the outcome of Defiance is what allowed BO2 to happen, for example.

spoiler:

Raziel ends up going into the blade because he always has. Etc.

Like Jen, Richard, and Kyle (and Kain) have said, time is like a river that flows around the rocks thrown into it, and arrives at the same destination in the end.

The one exception I might see to this is the Nemesis/William the Just thing in Blood Omen, but I'm sure we'll see an explanation of it eventually.

[Bobman32x]

a nice example of the 12 monkeys/LOK thing would be the 2 final destination movies (more 1st than 2nd) It just involves visions of the future instead of timetravel

You might have seen a way to escape "death" a little longer, but it will ALWAYS come back for you. though FD2's ending sucked and made the entire concept of the 2 movies go to ruin.

Final Destination 2 spoliers- vvvvvvvv

spoiler:

How does running out of air underwater and then being brought back by a Heart AED (you know the "Clear!" things) Kill you and revive you, but still making you dead in the eyes of all the balance of nature of existence as we know it?

[The Amazing Rando]

Originally posted by Dogfight
Thanks for the Q. and A. blincoln.
I just have a few gripes.

spoiler:

This appears to contradict the game itself, comparing pictures of Defiance at the timestreamer site of the murals with the in game cutscenes, a connection is seen. I discovered that the scene of the Hylden striking down the Ancient, looks just about identical to the scene at the end when Kain has the Blood Reaver in Raziel's chest. Seriously, it looks the same. Besides this the scene of the Ancient fighting against the Hylden, looks strangely similar to the duel between Kain and Raziel at Avernus Cathedral.

Looks can be decieving

spoiler:

See the links below. As Amy said a while back in another F.A.Q.:"And a final note -- we do in fact make mistakes sometimes."

http://www.timestreamer.co.uk/screen...phecyImage.jpg

http://www.timestreamer.co.uk/screen...sed10Image.jpg

http://www.timestreamer.co.uk/screen...tHeroImage.jpg

http://www.timestreamer.co.uk/screen...ain25Image.jpg

Not meaning to put down what the staff said, but I need a second opinion. Either the team that designed the murals didn't collaborate enough with the staff that wrote the story or they made some unintentional mistakes along the way that completely changes what they came up with in terms of story in the first place. Raziel even comments on how Kain looks like the figure in one of the murals and his comment doesn't seem off.

His comment doesn't seem off. Well, that's reason enough for me to go against an official statement.

spoiler:

http://www.timestreamer.co.uk/screen...phecyImage.jpg

Somethings unmistakingly wrong.

I've seen the film the 12 Monkeys, but that doesn't really relate up to this point with the LOK series, in that movie time couldn't be changed everything happened as it was supposed to, in the LOK series time has been changed again and again. Now I don't want to be the guy that thrashes the staff of Crystal D and you, but unless the Legacy of Kain series has been taking place in parallel dimensions with Kain and Raziel going from one dimension to another newly created parallel dimension each time they rewrite history and then make history, this has to be wrong. Kain clearly changed time in Blood Omen 1 and in Soul Reaver 2. Amy even said that Blood Omen 2 was something newly created by the paradox at the end of Soul Reaver 2 and that it wasn't around before. Well I guess the parallel dimension idea could be true, but I sure as hell hope it isn't, that would make everything Kain and Raziel did kind of pointless.

No comment right now

spoiler:

Ariel being at the Spirit Forge could still be validated in one of two ways. It is her future self brought to the past by the Spirit Forge, or the other Ariel that has been around was and has been merely an illusion of the Elder's. Either one is far more valid than what the staff said.

Wow, I'm glad someone has spend years and years coming up with the only 2 possibilities that could even remotely be plausable to explain something. Nothing else even stands a remote chance of being close to almost being something that could happen.

spoiler:

Again, as Amy said: "And a final note -- we do in fact make mistakes sometimes." I hope this is one of those times, this makes me somewhat distrustful of this whole F.A.Q., not that I am not thankful for it.

Thank you, O perfect one, for saying htat again. Since, you know, only Amy and the team make mistakes, never the fans.

spoiler:

Taking that this is not an unqualified "yes" the popular deduction going around was that Raziel became a part of Kain's soul, therefore there is no longer a continous cycle.

Somethings that didn't resolve anything.

They didn't really explain how Kain knew about Raziel being the prohesied messiah and why it was necessary to cast Raziel into the Abyss.

The Circle couldn't use their powers against Vorador for an unknown reason, but what exactly it is is hasn't been explained. This would go with what Amy said that even they don't know everything.

Just because they haven't told us everything they know, doesn't mean they don't know. I'm pretty sure Amy might have some inside information that we aren't aware of. An unexplaigned reason is different than an unnown reason. Why do you think some things are left for other games to cover if they so choose.

spoiler:

The problem with this is that it is isn't explicit enough, there were two different insect looking demons in Blood Omen 2. The ones with green glowing hellfire that resemble the Hylden called the Lesser Demons at the Canyons, and the demons in cages called the Hylden Pets which Kain encountered later on. The staff could have been referring to either one of them. Even if it is obvious for me, some will always have doubts.

Seriously, I don't want to be a nuisance, thanks for the F.A.Q., I know beggars can't be choosers but I would have preferred better answers to some of the questions. Perhaps there will be some addendums in the future or corrections. I'll end this with Amy's introduction to the old Soul Reaver 2 F.A.Q.

So: Who are you to call the team at CD wrong? Out and out saying they are wrong is completely disrespectful to both blinc and the team. There's a reason that these are official answers, even if that means that all your theories aren't right. Fess up that you're wrong, instead of being disrespectful. There's a reason that Amy is writing the story and that her theories and facts are correct above all others. This is most plausible statement of all, sadly some will not believe it until it is official confirmed (which was about 8 years ago)

BAH!!!

[Dogfight]

spoiler:

No. Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't. Jen, Richard, and Kyle mention the film 12 Monkeys at this point as an example of this concept [ If you haven't seen it, it's definitely worth checking out - blinc ]. While some things (like Ariel's role at the Spirit Forge) might seem out of place, it will all make sense in the end.

This is what I was saying the team was wrong about and its not being disrespectul, its being reasonable. Time has been changed in the LOK series, in the very first game Kain changed time by killing William the Just in the past and preventing his genocide of the people of Stalberg and the army of Willendorf in the future. Moebius himself even manipulates time.

[Vampiric Fool]

Dogfight, I ussually find it funny when you have your little debates trying to prove yourself right, but you're trying to argue with the Official Ruling here.

[Protector_Malek]

Dogfight, what I see here, is that you want the story to be like YOU want it to be. Why can't you just simply aknlowedge that you were wrong? These guys are the ones that CREATED the story. It doesn't matter what you THINK some mural meant, these guys KNOW what they meant, because they CREATED them!
You are saying that Defiance doesn't validate what they are answering... but dude, it doesn't validate it because you created a whole alternative story in your head that you are sure is the right one. You keep saying "these mural looks a lot to what happened here..." etc. But these are yout impressions, they guys at CD created the story, you cannot ignore that. Your are taking their story, and turning it against them! WTF! They wrote it!
Like I said before, you always try to prove your point at all cost. You are a super cool, nice person. But it does get annoying at times that you always try to prove that you are right. Haven't you think that you might be... wrong?

PS: I'm glad to see this answer:

Q: If Ariel enters the Reaver in the BO era, does this alter the events of Soul Reaver?
A: No. Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't. Jen, Richard, and Kyle mention the film 12 Monkeys at this point as an example of this concept [ If you haven't seen it, it's definitely worth checking out - blinc ]. While some things (like Ariel's role at the Spirit Forge) might seem out of place, it will all make sense in the end.

It makes the story much easier to understand, since I've always said that History in Nosgoth can't be changed, that guys travelling in time, and makining "changes", are actually settings things in motion, exactly like in "12 monkeys". EXCELLENT EXAMPLE!

[Vampmaster]

I think Raziels life is more like a coil. No matter how many times you loop around there's always a beginning and an end. So there could be an *almost* infinate number of Raziels in the Soul Reaver and he'd still be able to be absorbed by Kain.

Example of the coil:


Raz finds Soul Reaver here:
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////..............................
Raz enters Blood Reaver here:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////..............................
And again here once he's the WB:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////..............................
WB enters the Blood Reaver again here:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////..............................
WB enters the Blood Reaver again here:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////..............................
WB enters the Blood Reaver again here:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////..............................
WB enters the Blood Reaver again here:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////..............................
WB enters the Blood Reaver again here:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////..............................
WB enters the Blood Reaver again here:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////..............................
And finally leaves here:
.........................//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



This is the main thing that doesn't make sense to me:

razInReaver = false;

while (razInReaver == true) {
razInReaver = true;
//Output that he's in the Reaver
}

This will do nothing.

[Dogfight]

Dogfight, I ussually find it funny when you have your little debates trying to prove yourself right, but you're trying to argue with the Official Ruling here.

I'm not arguing with the official ruling, I am merely stating what the series says is true. The problem is the official staff's statements, especially the one about time being immutable appear to contradict the games themselves without any real evidence to support what they say. In the next game perhaps somethings will happen to validate their statement, but this isn't the case so far. Blood Omen 1, and Soul Reaver 2 involved changing time, to say time is basiclaly immutable even if it is the staff that says it, is going too far, especially when Kain and Raziel have changed time on more than one occassion.

Dogfight, what I see here, is that you want the story to be like YOU want it to be. Why can't you just simply aknlowedge that you were wrong? These guys are the ones that CREATED the story. It doesn't matter what you THINK some mural meant, these guys KNOW what they meant, because they CREATED them!

Yeah, except the guys that created the murals made them totally misleading and didn't offer anything in the games to validate what the staff would later say is fact.

spoiler:

I'd have no problem if Kain said in the game: "I'm not any of the figures in the mural, and Raziel said: "I got confused, Kain isn't any of the two figures in the murals I'm both."

The problem arises because both Raziel and Kain admit that they are one of the figures in the murals, they never mention what the staff says or even hints at it. Of course the murals were all a big misdirection purposely done by Crystal Dynamics but they never really stated them as such and their meaning was not fully explained in the game. Perhaps in the next game, Kain may have a recap about this. It is difficult to know what is true when much of the material presented in the games may be called into question at a later time by Crystal Dynamics.

It makes the story much easier to understand, since I've always said that History in Nosgoth can't be changed, that guys travelling in time, and makining "changes", are actually settings things in motion, exactly like in "12 monkeys". EXCELLENT EXAMPLE!

Except in 12 Monkeys nothing of history could be changed, everything happened as it was supposed to, it was totally immutable. Whereas in the LOK series time has been altered three times, events have been deleted from history, and some new things have been added. Unless there are parallel dimensions involved, or Kain is going to put history back to how it was before Moebius started meddling in it, what the staff says can only be wrong. Time isn't immutable in the LOK series, it has been changed again and again. I'm only being reasonable here.

[blincoln]

I think you are misunderstanding the 12 Monkeys comparison.

Bruce Willis *does* alter history - from a certain point of view. It's just that his actions are the ones which always lead to the future that he came from.

Similarly, when characters in the Legacy of Kain series "alter history," they are just setting things up to make history turn out the way it always has. William the Just was never "supposed" to be the Nemesis, because Kain was always destined to travel back in time and assassinate him, etc.

[Dogfight]

I think you are misunderstanding the 12 Monkeys comparison. Bruce Willis *does* alter history - from a certain point of view. It's just that his actions are the ones which always lead to the future that he came from.

Similarly, when characters in the Legacy of Kain series "alter history," they are just setting things up to make history turn out the way it always has. William the Just was never "supposed" to be the Nemesis, because Kain was always destined to travel back in time and assassinate him, etc.

No, I am not misunderstanding the 12 Monkeys comparison, it is simply not valid.

These are big spoilers for the movie. In 12 Monkeys, James Cole, (Bruce Willis) as a young boy witnesses certain events that lead to a horrible future, but he has trouble recalling them as an adult. He is picked to go back in time in the future and change the past. When he goes back in time, he starts remembering what he saw as a kid. It turns out the older James Cole always went back in time, his being in the past was part of history, so much so that his young self sees the final moments of his older self's life. The older James Cole doesn't change history, he has always been only a part of the same set events of time that always happened.

In Blood Omen 1 the Nemesis and his legions ravaged Nosgoth, murdered his own people at Stalhberg, and defeated the army of Willendorf. All of this happened, but if time is immutable how could this be changed. Simple, when two Soul Reavers meet in the past a paradox is created, powerful enough to derrail history. Kain went back in time and fought William the Just, with each holding an incarnation of the Soul Reaver. Kain killed William the Just before he became the Nemesis creating a new slightly altered future. Totally different from 12 Monkeys where the future stayed the same.

[blincoln]

More spoilers for 12 Monkeys:

Bruce Willis *does* change history though - his actions at the airport are what let his younger self see Madeleine Stowe. If he hadn't seen her as a child, he wouldn't have recognized her when he went back in time, meaning that he wouldn't have ended up kidnapping her and running from the police. Maybe none of the "army of the twelve monkeys" things would have even happened, which would have resulted in a completely different future.

So even though he changed history, he just changed it to the way it had been recorded as fact from his era all along.

Just like in the Soul Reaver era (which is as far into the future as we've seen in LoK), history records that William the Just was killed, and the Nemesis never existed.

Those events are what allow Kain to rule Nosgoth, and travel back into the past to "influence" history in SR2 and Defiance. I put "influence" in quotes, because even though he's making changes, they are the changes that allow the events of Blood Omen to proceed the way they're supposed to - this includes things like putting the Reaver where either Moebius can find it for William, or his younger self can find it for use in Blood Omen which hasn't been covered in any game yet.

It's a closed loop - just like Raziel's fate. Things that seem to be changes to it are really just furthering the closing of the loop.

[Protector_Malek]

Blincoln, I think it will be impossible to change dogfight's mind (much like in LOK's history ). You understand the story (the closed loop), I understand it, most people understand it. So let's just call it a night.
The last thing, to DOGFIGHT: when you say that raziel/kain recognize himself in the murals...... don't you see that they were wrong? The whole point of those murals and what kain and raziel says, is to mislead you... and then surprise you at the end.

[Dogfight]

More spoilers for 12 Monkeys: Bruce Willis *does* change history though - his actions at the airport are what let his younger self see Madeleine Stowe. If he hadn't seen her as a child, he wouldn't have recognized her when he went back in time, meaning that he wouldn't have ended up kidnapping her and running from the police. Maybe none of the "army of the twelve monkeys" things would have even happened, which would have resulted in a completely different future.

So even though he changed history, he just changed it to the way it had been recorded as fact from his era all along.

Just like in the Soul Reaver era (which is as far into the future as we've seen in LoK), history records that William the Just was killed, and the Nemesis never existed.

Those events are what allow Kain to rule Nosgoth, and travel back into the past to "influence" history in SR2 and Defiance. I put "influence" in quotes, because even though he's making changes, they are the changes that allow the events of Blood Omen to proceed the way they're supposed to - this includes things like putting the Reaver where either Moebius can find it for William, or his younger self can find it for use in Blood Omen which hasn't been covered in any game yet.

It's a closed loop - just like Raziel's fate. Things that seem to be changes to it are really just furthering the closing of the loop.

I see where you are going, but the older James Cole didn't change history by going into the past, he just did what he always did in the first place. No change of history, his going back into the past was fated to happen to cause the very future he sought to avoid.

Now with Kain in Blood Omen 1 it is a different story. Hypothetically, if Kain had gone back in time killed William the Just, and thereby this caused someone else to become the Nemesis causing the very future he sought to avoid in the first place, then you could make the argument that the LOK series is like 12 Monkeys, but this didn't happen.

Kain rewrote history, introducing a new timeline where the Nemesis and his army never existed with new consequences.

This then caused the introduction of two new fated events that didn't happen in the previous timeline, Kain getting killed off at William's Chapel 30 years before Blood Omen 1 by Raziel (Before Blood Omen 1 there was no William's Chapel, thus everything associated with this is new.) and Raziel being imprisoned in the Soul Reaver 500 years in the past (Kain says that when Moebius rewrote his destiny, he also rewrote Raziel's destiny.)

Again these fated events were altered, never happening in the first place and creating another new timeline introducing Blood Omen 2.

I understand what you are saying, simply that for things to stay as they are, somethings in history have to occur. Choices leading to actions, which lead to the reactions of others, bringing about a continous chain of cause and effect. This causing events throughout history, past, present, and future to happen in the first place. I know Kain can't change everything that happened, especially much of the history of the series in particular, but that doesn't mean he can't alter time to a degree. The series is about fate, but also about free will. The loop or Ouroboros does exist, but that doesn't mean that the pebbles can't affect the river's current before it meets itself again.

spoiler:

The last thing, for DOGFIGHT: when you say that raziel/kain recognize himself in the murals...... don't you see that they were wrong? The whole point of those murals and what kain and raziel says, is to mislead you... and then surprise you at the end.

Yes, except the surprise never really came and was never really validated in the game. I see that is the case, but I would've liked for the true meaning of the murals to have been more explained in Defiance