Why DXIW is better than the original

[Lord_Revenant]

First of all, two minor disclaimers - one, I respect the fact that there are some ways in which two people will just like a different type of game, and in that regard everyone is going to have a different favorite. I'm writing this because I'm overwhelmed with the number of silly things people are complaining about in this game, while managing to miss the huge improvements. Secondly, I purchased the game after version 1.1 was released - this doesn't take into account the fact that some complaints are more about the game pre-1.1.

Past that...I could sit here and go on and on about every single little point in every complaint about this game, but it wouldn't get anyone anywhere. People wouldn't hear a word of it - they would come and pick each point apart, and make such an overwhelming number of silly counter points that the truth of the original topic would be completely lost. So the best thing I can do is to state that after having watched these forums for a while, and then (despite my better judgement after reading all the complaints) purchased and played through the game myself, I think there are a few key reasons that people don't like Deus Ex: Invisible War.

1) I think some people hate this game because they have what they consider to be a "super system", and can't get past the fact that they might have to lower the system settings to play the game. If this game runs beautifully on my 800mhz p3 with a GeForce FX5200 and 512 megs of RAM (the old school RAM, mind you, not the new fangled double RAM =P), then it can run fine on a super system too. The difference is that when I started the game, I turned the shadows to low, the lights to low, kept the character detail on high, and put the resolution down to 640x480...and these people can't bear the thought of dropping their res or options. The game looks amazing with those settings. What's the issue?

It reminds me of that guy in Spinal Tap who insists that all of his speakers have a volume setting that goes up to "11". Why not just make "10" louder? "But...but....it goes to 11!!"

I also suspect that a number of the people shouting constantly on the tech forums just have no idea how their super system works. I built my little computer, and perform every hardware and software change that is ever done. I know the ins and outs, and I know what it can do...and DX:IW is entirely playable. I'd bet that I could up the options even further and still run the game over 40 FPS.

2) I think this is a much more common reason for people disliking this game, or even insisting that the first is better - things are different, and people just can't get past change. Ion Storm didn't just repackage the original game with a graphics overhaul, a slightly different storyline, slightly larger levels, and a few new guns...they actually made a new game. I guess people just can't get past the loss of the skill system, the new HUD, the removal of locational damage, the unified ammo, and the lack of reloading...to see that those changes each had a purpose.

See, in theory all of that sounds pretty stupid. I was really let down when I heard about unified ammo, no skill system, and no reloading. But in practice these things make the game far better than the original - you just have to be willing to accept the change, and go with it.

Unified ammo, for example. In theory, this sounds terrible - why would my rocket launcher take the same ammo as my boltcaster? Besides having an in-game reason for it (widespread nanotechnology, which includes your weapons), this improves gameplay so much I don't know what I would do without it anymore...why? Because you don't have 90248230 bullets on you at any given time! By the time you come up against (without spoiling anything) the more "armored" NPCs in the game, who also commonly carry rocket launchers, you're going to be running out of ammo. When you come up against five of those guys at a time, you're going to actually have to use your brain to kill them all, instead of just wasting all the ammo in each gun, one after the next. Does anyone realize just how much ammo you had in DX, and how impossible it was to run out of ammo for every gun you had on you?? In IW, you actually have to consider bringing melee weapons with you because you might have to use them...not just use them for a silent takedown.

The biggest issue is probably the lack of the skill system, but once again I just don't think people are giving the game a chance to be a separate and new game. It was a nice novelty, but the skill system was entirely reactionary. If you liked rifles, you trained in rifles. If you liked the rocket launcher, you trained in heavy weapons. The skill system was a complete no-brainer. It didn't require thought - what required thought was what weapons you would take into combat with you. The skills you trained in were purely reactionary to that decision, and that decision is still there. Not to mention the fact that leaving skill points OUT means that the purpose for completing objectives becomes moral, rather than personal gain. (the most absurdly minor of spoilers incoming...) I hacked Mina Ameer's name into the Tarsus academy acceptance list because I thought it was the right thing to do - not because there were skill points at the end of the road. And I sure didn't do it for the 5 credits. Cheapskate.

I know there are complaints about the inventory not being a geometry puzzle. I agree that the rocket launcher should take up more room than the pistol...but drop them both on the ground, and see what the difference is. It isn't that big. The rocket launcher is about twice as long as the pistol, whereas in DX1 the rocket launcher was significantly larger...it isn't perfectly realistic, but in this case realism makes way for good gameplay. I still have to really consider what weapons I'm bringing with me - in fact, it's more of an issue in this game. I don't remember ever kicking myself in DX1 because I chose the concussion grenade over the scrambler proximity mine. I rarely, if ever, ran out of space. In DX:IW I'm pretty much permanently out of space...WITH the strength aug. And I make use of every single weapon that I carry.

There are complaints about just about everything that was changed, I think. But when you really consider the reasoning, and you actually give the game a chance without already hating the game because those jerks at Ion Storm left out reloading, you find that the game passes the original in leaps and bounds...and realize that after five minutes you were used to the fact that you didn't have to reload your weapons, and that reloading might actual be a pain in the butt in this game.

This isn't to say that the game is perfect - some things could have been improved, some things could have been executed far better. People complain about the AI, which is probably valid - although I would probably argue that the game is more about walking into a room and deciding how you're going to drop the five guys wandering around the room than it is about how they're going to try to stop you...they're supposed to be regular guys with guns, whereas a game like Halo is far more dependant on the AI being varied because your options as a player are so much more limited. Perhaps a better example of a valid complaint would be the worthlessness of money or augmentation canisters...I don't remember finishing the original game with 4000+ credits and almost 20 extra augmentation canisters. In fact, I don't think all my augs were maxed out in some of my DX games, whereas they were totally full about halfway through IW.

All in all, though, there are very few complaints that seem to be valid in practice - there's a great number of things that SOUND bad, but nearly all of them end up being well thought out changes to the game when actually put into practice. I wonder how it is that there are so few posts on the highly improved parts of this game.

What about the fact that in DX1, choices are merely cosmetic? Until you reach the end and decide what ending to choose, your path is essentially going to be the same no matter what you do. You may kill this guy...or you may knock him out...or you may help him out...but whatever you decide, it isn't going to go past that specific encounter. That decision isn't going to cut you off from making serious decisions down the line. In IW, your decisions stick with you. I've started playing through the game a second time, and it's already apparent how my decisions have created an entirely new path for me to take...I'm sure I'll end up going through all the same locations, but in entirely different ways, associating with entirely different people. That's a huge change from the original...in the original, you weren't able to kill important NPCs. You couldn't shoot Tracer Tong in the face and have it change the entire course of the game. In IW, you can kill any NPC that you can reach. That includes nearly every NPC in the game - and by the end of the game, it DOES include every NPC in the game. That change is so drastic and so deep, it immediately puts this game lightyears ahead of the original.

At the end of the day, I'm just sad. I'm sad because the game designers did what so few do, and stepped out on a limb. They took a huge chance in doing what they thought was best for the series, and making some very serious changes for the better in the hope that their audience wouldn't just pass the game off as being "a console game", but might be intelligent enough to give it the chance it deserved. And overall, it seems like they were wrong. Now the "we've been screwed by corporate giants who made this game in a month" has infested their boards. Maybe the game isn't all that it could be...but I can't think of a single game I've enjoyed more, or that has been executed in such a wonderful fashion.

Maybe when you make a game like this success means failure. Perhaps you know that you've truly succeeded in raising the bar when so many people who play the game are unable to deal with how high you've raised it, or even give it a fair chance without deciding that the game is a huge dissapointment once they've seen all the changes you've made. I'm just sad that whenever something gets done right it inevitably doesn't get the praise and credit that it deserves...after all, you don't see very many people thanking JC Denton for The Collapse.

[Breadman]

Love the well thought out and well written post dude... no sarcasm intended.

I agree that DXIW is a lot better than people on the forums are making it out to be, but I disagree that's it's an overall better game than Deus Ex1. I don't have facts to base my beliefs, purely my own opinion and why I think Deus Ex1 was so much better, but yeah, here goes...

1. Realistic organizations. Deus Ex had em. Everyone's heard of FEMA. UNATCO, thoguh not real, is an extremely tangible possibility for an organization. Then throw in the conspiracy groups... NSF. I understand what they wanted and could comprehend see the possibly of such an organization existing. MJ12... not as easy to see in real life, but they seemed more realistic to me because of the locations I saw them in. Sewers, secret rooms in big labratories. Illuminatil, least tangible of them all, but when it got down too it I could even comprehend them existing due to all the pain in the ass things I had to even get to the dudes house. They must be pretty damn secret.

In DXIW I was totaly detatched from every single organization in the game. WTO though a real organization was completely different than it is now. Tarsus School I saw so little of and learned so little about that I could barely make an opinion of it. The Order is my favorite organization just because it is kind of tangeable. The Templars as well were possibilities. Except that they basically ran around freely in Cairo.

2. Realistic locations. Deus Ex started me out in places I was familiar with (NYC, Liberty Island, Paris, Hong Kong, even Vanderbelt), threw me into situations I was familiar with (bars, strip clubs, hotels, peoples homes, office spaces, breathing markets, restraunts, gas stations), and even in the end some of the locations, though not actually known by me, were already recognized by me(missle silos, area 51). I was in my world just a few years from now and the world that I was in though it had some technilogical upgrades, felt basically the same.

DXIW was the opposite. There were some familiar situations such as hotels and bars, but overall I felt unconnected to the world. I never hear anything about Cairo in real life, where the heck is Trier, and the Seatle they showed us, though a real city, was nothing at all like it is today so there is not attachment there... mine as well have called it Dallas or Anchoridge, no one would be able to tell the difference with all the modifications that were done. The only time in DXIW I felt connected to the world I was in the last level and if you've played through, you know what I'm talking about.

3. My relationships with people in Deus Ex were much more real. I had a brother. We talked a lot I heard a lot from him, information was passed along etc... I always felt close to him. Every action that I had with him my ears perked up. I felt the same with Alex (whatever his last name was, teh computer dude) and other old buddies I had at UNATCO.

In DXIW, I didn't even feel attachment to my own two brothers. Or Billie. Or any of the other Tarus freaks. Not one time did I feel bad when I accidently killed one of them (and yes that did happen once or twice, don't ask). I'd say the only guy I ever got connected to was the guy who was running around the track in the first level who later joined up with the Omar. I forgot his name but yeah... I always wanted to have the emotional attachment to one of the characters and it never came through.

- The rest of the complaints I could make are petty and don't really make a difference as to whether I liked the game better than the first, such as level size, length, or performance, but in the end I will say I loved DXIW... it was an incredibly enjoyable game. I felt I had more freedom to get things done the way I wanted to get things done, but in the end, the AI and story in the game really could care less how I did it... kill everyone, let everyone live, who cares? Apparently no one did. In Deus Ex1 I was always being bagered abotu stuff like that. No luck here. That's another complaint I desided to tack on the end but I'll leave the long post by saying...

I loved Deus Ex: Invisible War. Just not as much as the original.

[Locus]

Ive felt the same way. The fact that you have choices in the game that are more than superficial really takes it head and shoulders above DX 1 in terms of moral dillema. The fact that you killed or didn't kill somone can really work against you. I can refuse to kill someone for a side, and it will make my life a lot harder level or two from now was never apparent in the origina game. While you could use any tactics you wanted in the first game, IW is truly emergent gameplay. People remember me and treat me accordingly. In DX , the biggest choice in something like that is whether or not you kill anna. If I coud have shot Paul in the face when he first asked me to join the NSF, then that would have rocked.

On the other hand, IW does have flaws. First and foremost, there are no big levels. I cannot tell you how much fun I had with the jump aug in DX 1. I like being able to jumb from rooftop to rooftop in new york and paris, or down the elevator shaft in Area 51. One of my favorite moments in the game was when I just sent the message to the NSF from the Unatco temporary base in hells kitchen. The soldiers ran up the stair full speed. I turned on the aug, an jumped 3 stories down to safety. I felt like a nano-augmented agent then. The small levels also took away from the snipers game. I also liked JC slightly better as a character.

But, yeah, I think it's pretty easy to say IW is a better game.

[Lord_Revenant]

I agree that DXIW is a lot better than people on the forums are making it out to be, but I disagree that's it's an overall better game than Deus Ex1. I don't have facts to base my beliefs, purely my own opinion

That's what's important, I think...realizing that the game isn't just a "piece of crap" because it isn't a carbon copy of the first game, and making a judgement from that perspective.

In DXIW, I didn't even feel attachment to my own two brothers. Or Billie. Or any of the other Tarus freaks. Not one time did I feel bad when I accidently killed one of them (and yes that did happen once or twice, don't ask).

I think that an unfortunate consequence of making a completely open-ended game is that there are so many different lines of dialogue, you only ever see a small fraction of them in one walk through the game. For example, I had a very long discussion with Saman at one point in the game, before I decided he was a complete jerkbag, and got a real feeling for his character...but if someone else had taken a different path in the game, I can see how they might have skipped that discussion entirely. Each faction alsoends up having its own characters, who aren't as flushed out as they would be in a linear game due to the fact that there are just so damn many of them. Hence the fact that in DX1 you have a smaller number of characters who you develop more of an emotional attachment to, and in DXIW you have a large number of characters who you get a pretty good idea for, but your dialogue is so spread out among all of the characters that you never end up feeling particularly attached to one or two. It's something that I'd like to see more done with in future games, DX games (if there are any) or any games that have similar mechanics.

As for accidentally killing them, I felt bad when I killed Klara =P Although those characters are pretty strong...it's usually harder to accidentally kill those guys. I quite commonly killed pedestrians with a slight error of the mouse - I'm a huge fan of the combat strength biomod, which makes you throw things really really hard...get it up to level three and throw a chair at someone in a Pequod's. It's hard to stop it's so damn funny.

If I coud have shot Paul in the face when he first asked me to join the NSF, then that would have rocked.

rofl...I always thought Paul was kind of a loser. Especially because he's in a wheelchair or something for like half the game...if he even manages to live through the entire game.

I cannot tell you how much fun I had with the jump aug in DX 1.

I actually didn't notice the size of the levels being overly small for the most part, but I did notice that as well...there aren't very many areas where you can make use of the jump augmentation. Remember that area outside Maggie Chow's house? You could fall about 10 stories if you kept climbing, it was insane. And you could get out on the balcony of Jock's apartment and slowly make your way across the buildings, and then sniper Chow through her own window. That was the greatest. I hate that woman. No wonder I hated her offspring as well =P

While the sniper rifle was still a completely valuable weapon, I remember commonly being incredibly far away from my sniper prey in DX1, and I'm usually about...what....50 feet from the guy I'm shooting in IW? =/ I think that with the level they took the graphics to they just couldn't make larger levels....even monster computers wouldn't have been able to deal with it. Personally, I'm all for sacrificing uber graphics for gameplay =)

[Breadman]

Originally posted by Lord_Revenant
And you could get out on the balcony of Jock's apartment and slowly make your way across the buildings, and then sniper Chow through her own window. That was the greatest. I hate that woman. No wonder I hated her offspring as well =P

woah woah... I know the whole walking around 10 stories up practically but sniping chow through her own window? I don't believe I ever got high enough to do that. Howd you pull that one off? And what are you talkin about when you say Jock's apartment? He had an apartment in Hong Kong? If this is true I'm bootin that game up again right now to try that out, haha.

[Lord_Revenant]

Yeah, Jock has an apartment in Hong Kong It's across from Chow's. In the same zone / area, there is a separate building with an elevator close to Chow's. If you break in you'll find Jock's e-mail account, with instructions from Paul to spy on Maggie Chow and assassinate her if needed - that's how I knew she was full of it without going to the police station. Jock has a balcony, and nearby to the balcony you can start climbing...on the first ledge, sorry I can't recall exactly where it is in relation to Jock's apartment, there's a sniper rifle and some ammo. Jock was hardcore xD

Keep going up with the jump mod and you'll get insanely high...then jump. It's really fun, until you explode into tiny JC pieces of course.

[Lord_Revenant]

Oh, and PS - you can't assassinate her like that in the PS2 version, because the apartment complex is a different loading area (as I recall). I've played through both versions =P It's weird to play the PC version and then try the PS2 one...you keep thinking you know where you're going and then bumping into walls, because the areas are so much smaller on the PS2. =/

[Frraksurred]

I'm glad someone is making the effort to point out the things this game did right, and I concede that DX:IW is a decent game in many ways, but I must rebut a couple of your points.

1.) I'm glad you are satisfied with low quality visuals and resolutions. You are easy to please. However easy to please people are not what drives developers to make increasing better games. Were we all so easy to please there would never have been a game as legendary as DX or HL in the first place. Additionally, there are those of us that do get excited about cutting edge technology and the hardware that goes with it. Excited enough that we'll go out and spend significant amounts of money to be able to see and hear all the bells and whistles. When those bells and whistles are promised, and/or when a standard of quality has been set by a previous release, as well as currently comparable releases, I don't think it is "silly" to expect a developer with the ability and talent of IS, to deliver graphics and audio at least equal to what else is currently out there. DX graphics were exceptional at it's release. DX:IW has some new tricks but the models and textures are sorely lacking in comparison to just about every comparable game out there. Alex's textures are 256x256 for crying out loud. Most current releases utilize between 512x512 to 1024x1024 for their models. The polygon count for the weapons is reminiscent of games 2 years old! DX's weapons had greater detail. Maybe it's OK with you, but I look forward to the "wow" affect new games with new technology bring out. DX:IW falls on it's face here.

I think the biggest complaint against DX:IW in this area is that the game was primarily coded for the Xbox. I have no issues with Xbox, it is currently their largest market and deserves the attention it gets. However, when building the PC version the time was not taken to optimize the code or take advantage of the many advantages the PC offers. It was almost directly ported from the Xbox version. PC owners lost out on some standard features, for example, positional sound. The Xbox got it, but we didn't. Name a single FPS made in the last 18 months that didn't have positional sound? DX had it. How is this better?

2.) In DX when you picked up a body it showed up on your shoulder and slowed you down. In DX:IW it's like a stiff board that appears and disappears and doesn't slow you down or affect your jumping at all. Again, that's not improvement. In DX when you shot a guy in the foot he didn't die from it, whereas in DX:IW it does the same damage as being shot in the chest. Not improvement. The game simplified some things, like unified ammo and the skill/aug system, that took some adjustment to get used to but didn't take away from it being an enjoyable game. If that was all it did most would not care a whole lot, but DX:IW has several glaring "occlusions" (i.e., faults) that DX had already done right. I don't mind the changes so much, some are in fact an improvements (like dropped ammo instead of searching bodies and having to throw away junk you didn't want). It is the loses and broken promises I have a problem with.

You make some valid points, but I think some of your positions are short sighted. We all buy games for different reasons. I'm sure several improvements will be made via patches, and I look forward to that, but by and large playing DX:IW has mainly accomplished giving me a resumed anticipation for HL2.

[Lord_Revenant]

I'm glad you are satisfied with low quality visuals and resolutions. You are easy to please.

I'm not even remotely easy to please - in fact, I'm extremely picky, and judging from the rest of your post I'm far harder to please than you are.

I'm not thrilled by simplistic things such as big fiery explosions. Besides, the visuals aren't low quality. Having a low resolution doesn't mean anything, just as polygon counts are completely meaningless. One of the Unreal modelers has an entire website designed to character faces for Morrowind that he created, which each look about twenty times better than the originals and typically use far fewer polygons. Does that mean that those textures are lower quality? They make the originals look like they were painted by a three year old, the poly count is meaningless.

Alex D looks great to me. I don't care what the magic numbers for his polygon count are, because it doesn't affect how the game feels to me. This game is about gameplay and intelligence - and the visuals are more than adequate to serve that purpose. Past that, it's a meaningless argument because it's based on opinions.

You're the exact type of person I'm talking about. The game won't run in a higher res, so forget the amazing level of intelligence and insight that the game brings...we need more explosions! Don't expect the game to be something that it isn't. I agree with the IGN reviewer who said that this game is an RPG first and foremost - but a non-linear one which gives good gameplay to people who prefer to do more than hit the "Fight" button.

And besides, we could sit here and disagree about how good the visuals are compared to Half Life 2 all day, but in reality it's purely a matter of opinion.

I'm not saying that that's a bad thing to want something more simplistic than what this game has to offer...but if you're looking for big explosions and pretty colors you rent an action movie, you don't read through a philosophy book. Stay away from this game if you aren't going to appreciate the intellectual aspects of it.

Again, people hate this game for one of two reasons - either they're intellectuals who COULD appreciate the game's intelligence but DON'T appreciate it because they can't get past the changes made to the game, or they're people from the typical brainless FPS market who want amazing visuals on their super computer and could care less about moral judgements on the future of humanity.

In DX when you picked up a body it showed up on your shoulder and slowed you down. In DX:IW it's like a stiff board that appears and disappears and doesn't slow you down or affect your jumping at all.

Again, if you're looking at this game from the perspective of someone who loves the fact that an FPS is finally letting you use your brain, and allows you to make moral decisions and role play a character, then you won't even look at this twice. I'm sitting at my computer thrilled to hell that I'm being given moral dilemmas and choices that require forethought and intelligence - do I care that the body I just tossed looked stiff for half a second? It could have turned into a large striped elephant, it wouldn't ruin the good aspects of the game for me, and it just isn't what the game is focusing on.

Whereas if you're looking at this game from the perspective of someone who wants neato explosions and realistic visuals, you're going to really be bugged by something like this.

In reality, it's much easier to please you than it is me. I'm not satisfied by a body realistically slumping over my shoulder or slowing me down. I'm satisfied by a moral and intellectual question about the future of humanity, and that's much harder to deliver than neat graphics. I've seen cool graphics, I've seen big explosions, I've seen high poly counts, I've seen realism in graphics, and I've seen it all come with an idiotic and completely linear storyline that was only there to give you some kind of vague excuse to be the one guy that kills 500,000 neo-nazis. And none of it impressed me.

In DX when you shot a guy in the foot he didn't die from it, whereas in DX:IW it does the same damage as being shot in the chest.

The removal of locational damage in areas other than the head doesn't really bother me...and actually yes, the guy DID die from a shot to the foot in DX1. It just took more shots to the foot. But eventually, the guy would keel over dead from those horrible foot shots. To be honest, I'm not even sure that there ISN'T some form of locational damage in enemies in IW - it's one of those things that you would probably never realize unless you read it somewhere. I assume getting shot means getting hurt badly, and getting shot in the head means getting hurt much more badly...past that, I could care less, because it's more important to me that I actually have a valid reason to be shooting the person, and that the person I'm shooting at isn't just "Nazi model 03". It's someone who actually has a personality, someone who is three dimensional...not just a flat target.

I think the biggest complaint against DX:IW in this area is that the game was primarily coded for the Xbox.

I've heard this over and over again - but it isn't a complaint. I don't care if it was coded primarily for my grandma. The game is what the game is, and the entire XBox thing is a completely nebulous theory that doesn't give any insight into what people think is actually wrong with the game. I think the problem with the game is that it was primarily coded for a rather unpopular target audience.

Of course, I doubt that the evil of Microsoft had absolutely no negative affect on the end result...I'm willing to bet that the game at very least wouldn't have been released until a few of the bugs that have now been worked out in patches were already worked out, but it hasn't been disasterous to the parts of the game that matter.

I don't mind the changes so much, some are in fact an improvements (like dropped ammo instead of searching bodies and having to throw away junk you didn't want).

You have no idea how tired I was of combat knives by the end of DX1 =/

You make some valid points, but I think some of your positions are short sighted. We all buy games for different reasons.

Make up your mind! =) You're agreeing with me and disagreeing with me at the same time. My positions are short sighted? Why? Because I'm glad that one of the only first person shooters which incorporated role playing, morality, and intelligence has a sequel that wasn't just created to cater to the masses of explosion lovers?

I agree, we do all buy games for a different reason - your reason is to shoot someone, or to see neat special effects, or to get the most out of your super system. There are plenty of games that will be made just for you - in fact, just about every FPS on the market is a perfect match. Leave the one franchise that gives something to people like me alone. Get Half Life 2, and enjoy the hell out of it - I'm sure it's going to have amazing graphics. It will probably have at least a little more intelligence than the average game, but that isn't going to be the main focus.

[Random]

Nice thread. My own opinion is a combination of Lord_Revenant's and Breadman's. I think the actual gameplay in DX:IW is better than the original, but I didn't really enjoy it as much for the reasons Breadman posted.

[Kyrandos]

Lord_revenant, I don't find my problems with the game to be 'silly' at all. I find them to be quite large and detrimental to my enjoyment of the game. You could tell me all day about how silly my disliking unified ammo, for example, is.. but ultimately you wouldn't accomplish a single thing. I will always find it stupid because I do not enjoy the GAMEPLAY the way it alters it.

And I have what I consider a super machine, and barely push 20 FPS in 640 x 480. How is that me being unwilling to tone a few things down? Considering I play Unreal Warfare engine games at 1024x760 res with all details on max at 25-40 FPS, and Deus Ex 2 has much WORSE graphics...

[Papers]

For me Invisible War is about choice, consequences and intelligence. A game you can claim is for adults, not because it has obscene amounts of violence in it, but because it deals with adult themes like politics, genetic modification, terrorism, brain washing, and the corruption of power. There is no right or wrong in Invisible War, no black or white, no good or evil, only the choice to do things how your own moral values dictate.

Videogames are such a powerful medium; there are ways they can be used to deliver a story very different from either books or film, and Ion Storm seem to be one of the few game makers who actually see that . One of the reviews for Invisible War said it's amazing that no one else has ever tried to copy the game play of Deus Ex. It's not amazing, it's sad.

Insivible War is not technically perfect, but in my opinion it sits head and shoulders above practically every other game this year.

[K^2]

I only have two main problems with IW.

1) The physics is not adjusted for masses of the objects, which often results in very unrealistic collisions. It is still better than DX's physics, but Ion Storm could have done a lot better.

2) Very small levels, and it does not look like the map designers fault. The central area of the last zone seems to be very artificialy divided into halfs (East and West sides), which suggests that the small levels are caused by the problems in the engine.

These two things kept giving me the feeling that I am playing an unfinished product. Other then that, though, I enjoyed the game.

[Dae_Man]

I am dissapointed with DX:IW simply because it doesnt have the ground breaking features of the original (but I wrote a post all about that My thoughts on the sequal
To me, the sequal would have been better if it didnt remove so many of the things that made the original so great.

As for the engine, I beleive it uses the Unreal Warfare engine, which is capable of some very large and detailed areas. The Unreal Warfare engine is just an ongoing continuation of the Unreal 2 engine, and it licensed out to whoever wants to use it.
My point is that the engine is capable of far larger maps - larger than those in the original.
The original game used the Unreal Tournament engine, and had some very large levels, with the ability to go back and forth between levels. The sequal uses the Unreal Warfare engine and has (from what I've seen) very small levels that aggravate me as I'm traveling between them.

Mine, and I think many gamers, problem with the game is that it's changed so much from the original, that it no longer feels like Deus Ex, it feels like something else, and for a lot (including myself) it's hard to get used to. We were expecting something that improves the existing game, but what we got was a different game that seems to carry almost nothing from the original. The Invisible War it may be, but Deus Ex 2 it is not.

- Just my thoughts

[K^2]

The engine can handle larger maps, but only if the graphics are rendered through the fixed pipeline. It seems that with the shaders, dynamic lighting, and dynamic shadowing, the developers were not able to make the engine handle larger maps. IMO, that is not because it is impossible. It would not be difficult at all to run the local polygons through the shaders, and leave the more distant objects to the fixed pipeline (or, if that is impossible for some reason, just simplier shaders) and use the static, precompiled lighting for these areas. The Ion Storm has most likely just descided to release the game as quickly as possible choosing smaller maps over a couple of extra months of development process.

[Dae_Man]

I for one would have been happier with a longer development time for better quality.
Heck, I still hold out hope that Duke Nukem Forever will one day grace our computers.
My opinion is that they should have put more effort into the game instead of hurridly trying to release it in time for christmas.

[exo]

Just finished the game lastnight.

*spoiler*

I chose the JC Denton path, I would've gone renegade but it just didn't appeal to me as much as everyone just having nano augs just made more sense to me, it'd be like having a direct feed into everyones mind which is something I'd like since I hate actually talking with my physical mouth anyway.

So anyways, the game just doesn't have as much detail as the first. Oh, there were SOME parts I suppose... like the dude by the trash can setting himself on fire, or the little romeo and juliet scene going on when you go back to cairo, but nothing else really stuck out. I ended up knocking billie out without killing her and there was ZERO difference, I just might as well have killed her considering from the ending I saw she didn't make an appearance.

I noticed that some of the levels seem pretty small but they didn't do too bad of a job... it was playable though, I really missed the feeling I got walking through China/Tokyo in DX1, shopkeepers at every corner, a restaurant/nightclub down the street, that, was a very immersive part, even complete with a couple dojo's and a temple even. DX:IW not so much.

What's the point of getting credits anyway? I ended the game with 10,000 + creds, I mean... there's just... nothing to spend money on...

Most of the game you'll never actually see anyone you talk to, only their vid screen face that shows up when they talk to you via your technological communication device, and most of the time it's more like icq spam, "You know you want to" pleads that turn to "You better do what I say" spams the closer to the end.

I hate the fact that I didn't get back at sid for scammin off me, or, going with the JC Denton ending, didn't get a different ending for taking billlie out non-lethally... that you HAVE to take Donna Summers out in order to rescue your 'sister'.

This game just seems... Deus Ex-Lite. It just doesn't have as much detail, content, or dark conspiratory atmosphere. None of the characters are memorable in any way, I'll always remember herm and ana arguing over the pop machine, the annoying secretary watching me like a hawk, getting caught in the womans washroom,, dragon tooth sword, etc. etc. I just can't seem to remember much about DX: IW that stands out for me :\, then again i was never one for graphics. :\

game's a 7.3 in my book where the first was an 8.5.

It's a nice looking game, it had a decent pace to it, it just wasn't enough. :\

[lagoleer]

Originally posted by exo
Just finished the game lastnight.

*spoiler*

I ended up knocking billie out without killing her and there was ZERO difference, I just might as well have killed her considering from the ending I saw she didn't make an appearance.

On your way down to the Aquinas Router in the old Unatco building, you should have encountered a Templar Paladin and Billy in there. Then again, I didn't kill her or knock her out. Her health got low and she got scared, dropped her weapon and had her hands up.

[Papers]

Originally posted by lagoleer

On your way down to the Aquinas Router in the old Unatco building, you should have encountered a Templar Paladin and Billy in there. Then again, I didn't kill her or knock her out. Her health got low and she got scared, dropped her weapon and had her hands up.

I'm not totally sure, but in order to make Billie appear at the end you have to tell her you are going to spare her life, and then knock her out or incapacitate her. I think I read that somewhere, but I'm still only on my second playthrough so I haven't actually done it myself.

Edit: Ah, I actually think I got that the wrong way round... If you tell her you're going to kill her she will appear, but if you promised not to kill her, she won't.

[lagoleer]

Well, my second time through, I told her I would spare her (try not to kill her), and I didn't knock her unconscious or kill her, but she got to a point where she dropped her gun and threw up her hands and I then left her alone. She showed up @ the end as detailed above.

[exo]

Kinda hard to let her get to the point of letting her surrender if you pump her neck full of neurotoxin :P

[Kyrandos]

wow, this thread just got derailed with spoilers...