[SPOILERS] matrix revolutions

[projo]

>>>CONTAINS NO SPOILERS ! <<<
I wouldn't want to ruin this film for anyone. Someone on the EIDOS Forum changed the title of this thread, from "matrix revolutions" to read "SPOILERS".
The issues I have with the Matrix Trilogy are not about any of the action or plot of Matrix Revolutions.
(There IS one MASSIVE SPOILER further down this thread, that goes into great detail to try to explain the complexity of this film. See the film first, and then read that part to see if you agree with him.)
(11-08-03)

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(original posting, 11-05-03)

Saw it, first showing today.
The local movie critic only gives it one star.
I would give it more, but I'm still waiting for the images to process.
This film should probably be seen with the second installment, as one longer film.
The special-effects are such that they have outdone themselves again.
Not at all what I expected !
The film seems compressed, like it needs more time.
Did they win, or lose ?

It was good.

[Solange]

I saw it last night. I liked it.

Although some of the scenes were just too long...

Have to think a bit more to be sure what happened! But my first impression was that it was better than the second movie. It also had some fresh ideas that made the story, and the ending believble. I think the critics were a bit too judgemental, they seem determined to hate follow ups.

[bene1]

projo, the 2nd and 3rd are indeed one film............the brothers didn't want to cut and decided it was too long to be put into theatres as one film. That's way the "trilogy" was completed before the 2nd aired.

How good can this be if who won is not really clear??????

[projo]

>>>THIS IS NOT A SPOILER<<<
When I see this movie again, I will be paying very close attention the instant it starts. The brothers have done this same sort of thing now in all 3 of these films, but THIS one is really fantastic, and worth a "Heads Up" just to get as much of it as possible.

But it really has nothing to do with the plot or action of Matrix Revolutions.
After I had watched the movie, and was reflecting on it (as well as the other 2) this particular sequence seems to have a special relevance to all 3.
(11-08-03)

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(original posting, 11-05-03)
At the very beginning of Revolutions, there is one of those sequences where you zoom into the green fields of the symbol, that then shows us what might be the explanation for all.

But it happens so fast, with such breathtaking magnitude, that it only registers later as anything besides a visual rush.


>>>This (BELOW) certainly depends on how you think about it, or see it, and any newspaper review would give you this kind of information, which is ambiguous, not specific, and I would certainly hope NOT A SPOILER ! It more concerns the nature of their virtual world, which is the context of the entire Trilogy<<<

(original posting, 11-05-03)
But "the end" leaves you wondering just exactly what happened.
And then wondering if winning (or losing) is even possible.
Or if anyone would know the difference.

[Solange]

Originally posted by bene1
How good can this be if who won is not really clear??????

That bit was quite clear to me! Other things were less clear, but I have no doubt about the outcome!

[Matthew Danvers]

I think TM-Revo was pretty awesome.

The ending was left very vague, yes. Some loose ends are sometimes good, but I was sure expecting that they would explain a tad more.

Anyway, here's what I think that happened.

Smith, now copied onto the Oracle, had the power to see into the future, as far as he could understand his choices. It was Neo's destiny to die in that pit, indeed. Smith foresaw it, but apparently didn't see any further, because either he did not understand, he wasn't ready or he was not meant to. Since Neo was plugged into the Matrix by the Machine Mainframe, the Mainframe had an overview of his ongoings in the Matrix. As soon as Smith had finished copying himself onto Neo, Neo was over-copied and theoretically died. But the Machine Mainframe had not left the copying unnoticed. As soon as the copying was finished, the Mainframe released a powerful anti-virus program into the Matrix through Neo. This was a very unique way of transfer, it would not have worked through other humans. Through Neo was the only way to delete Smith, because, as we now learned and could have figures some time ago, Neo is Smith and Smith is Neo. Through Neo's body, the anti-virus spread into the now over-copied Neo's Matrix self turned Smith and thus spread on to every Smith, including the invisible base programs that Smith created in the Matrix. This includes the rain, the constant darkness and whatnot. That was also a virus to be deleted. As I understood, the copying could be undone. For after the anti-virus had ended its strike, there was the Oracle, in the pit. I was at first puzzled, why wouldn't there be a whole Matrix-full of half unconcious people everywhere. I think the answer is, that the system just needed a reboot. A program is a program. An artificial mind. But a human's mind is much more complicated. I imagine that the system administrators, the prime programs, had to be restored first, because they make the changes. They make the deja vu's. The moment something is changed in the invisible base programs. So that is why the Oracle was restored before the humans in the pit. I can imagine that somewhere there was also a half unconcious Architect, too. Perhaps even Seraph, Sati and other programs, too. After the system administrators were disinfected of the Smith virus, they got online and started administrating the Matrix, once again. So, they restored the invisible base programs, the rain was gone, the darkness was gone, and everything was restored. That's why the deja vu cat going towards Sati in the end. Neo probably died, because, as I said, Neo is Smith and Smith is Neo. I'm afraid that Neo couldn't escape the anti-virus either. So, the Mainframe carried him away, as a relic, or a symbolic reminder of their pact of peace again between the humans and the machines. So, I imagine that now, the people will be put online again, now that the Matrix is disinfected and the ones that want to leave, can leave and the ones that cannot bare to see the wastelands, stay. I think the ending wasn't corny. I mean, does it matter? I think it was pretty cute. We do need hope, don't we? Perhaps Neo didn't pass away, as the Oracle said that one day they would see him. Perhaps he's still somewhere, out there. Invisible, the ultimate system administrator of the Matrix. I now also understand how come Zion could be destroyed five times in a row. I didn't get it, at first. But unfortunately, they didn't say a zip about it in TM-Revo. I had to re-watch the conversation with the Architect in TM-Relo to understand it... although I imagine I've seen the conversation with the Architect more than enough... Anyway, I think the ending was pretty cute, indeed. Forgivness, something we should all learn. Call it corny, the machines forgiving the humans so easily, I think it's nice. Don't forget, they also wanted peace in The Animatrix in The Second Renaissance. And guessing that machines live for a very long time, they also don't forget things. So I can imagine that after that burst of hatred the Machine Mainframe released on Neo before it jacked him in, it remembered how they wanted peace, but the humans didn't. So I guess, their AI's calculated that the humans had finally understood and thus, forgave them... Awww...

Trinity's death was kind of romantic, I guess. The spikes through her stomache did not bother me. I mean, they were through the stomache. I kind of heard that stomache impaling wounds are not immediately fatal, if the anti-body is not removed. So, Trinity died in internal bleeding, if that's what it's called.

The ending telekinesis fist Super Brawl fight was awesome. Truly. So. Very. Awe. Some.

In summary, I think it wasn't as good as the original TM, naturally, but it was a nice way of ending the trilogy. I still haven't made up my mind, which I liked better, TM-Relo or TM-Revo. Though they were both very very different from each other, in my opinion, though made at the same time. I just hope they won't make a fourth one... An additional chronicle-like edition would be cool. Like what happens after TM-Revo. But as I've heard the up-coming game The Matrix Online will just do that.

Anyway, I enjoyed the movie very much. Not as good as the first one, but I don't like being a heartless critic too much, so I enjoyed it and hoped that you did the same!

- Matt

[projo]

Well, that makes sense.
But they still wouldn't know, would they?
I think that the question posed by the Trilogy is: what is reality?

[suzieq51]

The critique in my daily newspaper here in Oz practically raved (4 stars!) and hinted that because the ending was "unclear", the producers are probably looking at a 4th installment???

[projo]

Nerevar, all of those chaps and theories were long before the computer and the concept of virtual reality.
You have to admit this new wrinkle really takes Philosophy on a long, wild Road Trip, and then some.

How would these people know the difference between what they thought and what was being thought for them ?

How could they know, or be sure of anything ?

If anything at all can be imagined, does that make it more real than what you think, or believe, or hope ?

Or is it just another illusion ?

(Oh, and incidentaly, in that "reality" over there is a hundred billion universes.)

This is what that opening sequence said to me.
Actually nothing new, just nice to see it put so well ! !

[Jewell]

AHHHHHH! AAAAAAH! Spoilers!! LOL. I'll be back to share my opinion *I didn't read the thread* after I see the movie - which will probably be this weekend (we have a three day weekend, starting- now!).

[DaveJ]

Just got back from seeing it.
Loved it.
To me it matched the energy and inventiveness of the first, although in different ways to the first.... something the second one failed to do.

Logical way for it to end too.

[Matthew Danvers]

I'm very glad you enjoyed it, Metroid_DarkTim.

I know I did.

Did I mention that 'Navras' and 'Neodämmerung' rock?

- Matt

[projo]

I am all for movies like Revolutions, and the entire Trilogy, because they provide fresh experience
(even though it is synthetic)
and an overwhelming sense of style.

But if you stop to think about it, you are lost.
There are too many inconsistencies.
("How can free will co-exist with divine preordination?" just to get the ball rolling. . . . )

Its all very interesting and enjoyable, but you can't really take it seriously, unless you expect to gain something from it.
( - Like billions of dollars perhaps ? )

Relax : its just a movie ! !

[arcarsenal]

i dont know what you guys saw in this movie i mean the first one was great the 2nd one was ok but this last one was a complete cop-out it was over-hyped commercialized garbage devoid of any of the intellectual content of the predecessors it looked like it was going to follow plato's allegory of the cave but we get no philosopher king in neo no one is liberated and instead he just does the dirty work for the matrix

i will say that the story was well structured smith + oracle eyes=neo - eyes and other little things like that but thats all i can say there was no substance to back it up just another sappy hollywood ending and i swear before God and everyone keanu and the brothers matrix will not recieve one more cent of my money after this disappointment

[DaveJ]

If it had had a Hollywood ending everyone would have lived happily ever after.

As it was people were liberated...the Architect said anyone wanting to be freed from the Matrix would be.

It followed the path of the other movies, just not to the conclusion many people thought it would.
Many obviously had their own ideas as to what was going on, and are now disappointed to find out they were wrong.

[THE True Lara]

err, stop me if I'm wrong Dave, but haven't you just given away part of the ending there?

[DaveJ]

Aye... but the thread is titled 'Spoiler' as a warning!

Will amend anyhoo.

Hmmmmmmmmmm......


Saw it last night at the Late Showing (did not get home 'til 2am my time).

I...errr...hrumph!...gotta think about it some more. I think it was entertaining...but...

I think it was left conveniently unexplained exactly who-and-what Neo really is. Too much CGI and not enough Philosophy is my gut reaction...

...but I enjoyed the flick.

Maybe not as much as I enjoyed Kill Bill Part 1, but I enjoyed it.

[Jeffers]

I saw it last night and thought it was great.

What I thought about smith being deleted at the end after he copied himself on to Neo at the ned is that as smith was plugged into the matrix through Neo's body, then it would have the termination code in him I suppose, so it could read the termination code directly, or and this is what I finally settled on, the matrix works on balance. Because Smith is the exact opposite of Neo as the equation is trying to balance its self out, then since Neo is no longer there, the equation is unbalanced and so Smith serves no purpose, unbalancing the equation and so the code is terminated.

Jeffers

[projo]

Jeffers, I think you are right.

Obviously this created an equilibrium.

But if the film was longer, and more details were filled in, it might not leave the viewer so confused about what happened !