Any info on the T3/GTA rumor??

[SK Denton]

I keep hearing people say that T3 will be like GTA with an open city where you can go into buildings and steal, and that missions will be scattered throughout activated only when you talk to someone or through icons.

Of course I haven't read anything that remotely indicates this so does anyone have a clue?

[Squid]

Well, that was how T3 was originally conceived... but the idea was discarded when LGS went under. The game will be similar in play style to T1.

Squid

[Blackjack]

Oh no it won't.

Several press releases and interviews (check the Ion Storm and TTLG forums) have referred to a large, continuous City (GTA), with missions as opposed to levels (T1&2). I think Randy has said they'll chop the city into navigable parts, with smaller sections for X-Box, but a single City it will certainly be.

I'll try to find you the relevant links, but there's plenty out there.

[Bat-mite]

So, do people like that, or not like that? And if it is missions instead of levels, will there be a plot with a conclusion? How does that work?

[SK Denton]

Originally posted by Bat-mite
So, do people like that, or not like that? And if it is missions instead of levels, will there be a plot with a conclusion? How does that work?

I think the whole GTA style is cool, but unless the game comes on 5 cd's you can bet that the interior areas will be small and dull.

Creating a living, breathing city takes up a ton of recourses which usually does not make for good interiors. To have a GTA style city and great interiors (T1&2) the game will have to be a couple gigs in size.

And GTA3 has a plot and a conclusion so don't worry about that.

[Specter]

Well, though he didnt say whether or not he was looking at exteriors or interiors, a DX developer posted over on the Ion Storm boards that he got a look at Thief 3 (I guess his group is, or will be soon, working on thief) and he said the game has an amazing style, and that it's "pretty." Hopefully this means that the interiors won't be barren. I too am of the opinion that bland interiors are hiddeous. Ive only played GTA 3 a couple of times, but the first thing I noticed was the buildings were empty with a couple of ramps thrown in to move to the roof. I would rather have a restricted gorgeous city than an expansive city thats completely hollow. Im sure Im part of the majority. The dev, I cant remember his name, hell, I'll just give you the link: http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewth...096594&id=4995 notice he says that T1 and T2 were "behind the curve" In my opinion, this says alot. For a dev to say something is pretty isnt much in itself, of course he'll say that, but to compare it to T1 and T2, not in graphical terms, but in terms of style and mood, and dub T3 better, then I feel a little more at ease.
Wow, I wrote you an essay, sorry about that. That said, I'll now stop procrastinating and write the real essay I have due tomorrow at 20:30GMT.

[Blackjack]

Originally posted by SK Denton
[B]I think the whole GTA style is cool, but unless the game comes on 5 cd's you can bet that the interior areas will be small and dull.

Huh? Why does joining previously disparate levels together into one coherent city mean small and dull interiors? It won't ALL be loaded into memory at the same time. No-one has suggested that. Indeed, Randy (or was it Harvey?) has already stated that it'll be loaded in chunks, with X-Box having smaller chunks. What they mean by a continuous City, at least as I understand it, is that you'll feel it's continuous, traversing from one section to another via 'gates', and that your missions will be created more dynamically, depending on your actions, rather than at level loading.

Creating a living, breathing city takes up a ton of recourses which usually does not make for good interiors. To have a GTA style city and great interiors (T1&2) the game will have to be a couple gigs in size.

That may be true, though Garrett won't be driving a car, huh? I expect the interiors will be far more detailed than before, and the screenshots to date appear to support this.

It's six years between T1 and T3. There are gonna be some big changes.

[ChowYunFat]

The problem with doing Thief the same way as GTA is that in GTA the only part of the game world that's "active" is what's inside the frame of your vision. Anything outside of your field of view disappears, to be randomly recreated when you look in that direction again. There are certain exceptions to this in the game but that's how it works. In T1 & T2, the game world was static--all the guards & treasure was put in place before the game starts & whatever you do to affect any game element was permanent within the scenario you were playing. So if you knock out a guy in a guardhouse at the start of a mission, he'll still be lying there hours later when you go past on your way out.

I'm not a computer programmer, but I would presume that making a whole city function the same way a single mission did in T1 & T2 would be difficult, although it would be a dream come true. Maybe the game will work more like Diablo, where the previous area is re-set when you enter a new area.

[K33p3r]

I think the idea of doing it like the diablo games is a great idie, but might prove a bit strange if you kill or blackjack everyone in one area of town, then go through a 'gate' or what ever, then go straight back though it and everyone is back and cosious (or alive).

If they are going to do something like the diablo things then they should have a set clock or something to stop people just running back and forth though 'gates' and the guards re-spawning

[SK Denton]

T3 should not follow after diablo or any other game for that matter cept maybe gta. The minute T3 or DX2 start to mimik other games is the day that those games go down the toilet in quality. They are great games cause they are unique and special.

Anyway, I don't see an open city in T3 unless the game is a few gigs in size and I don't see that happening either.

[K33p3r]

I didn't mean to totally copy diablo ideas and i agree that the thing that makes thief such a great game is that its not like anything out there, but if they were to do and "open city" thing then diablo as an example of how to do it would be a way to go.the thing about the diablo area idea was just to use it as a template or somthing.

[Mr. Perfect]

You can have cut-up levels that retain information. Such a thing was used about 7 years ago with Descent. The part you could see was loaded up on the fly, while parts you had left were saved for later use. You could spend hours wandering around some of the giant levels, and everything stayed just how you left it. Same thing was used in Descent 3 back in 96, so it's certaintly doable now.

BTW, I like the idea or a big city. Have to see how it works out, but I know I liked how they re-played areas in Deus Ex.

[Wayd]

Originally posted by SK Denton
I think the whole GTA style is cool, but unless the game comes on 5 cd's you can bet that the interior areas will be small and dull.

Creating a living, breathing city takes up a ton of recourses which usually does not make for good interiors. To have a GTA style city and great interiors (T1&2) the game will have to be a couple gigs in size.

And GTA3 has a plot and a conclusion so don't worry about that.

Well Morrowind managed to do it, and their interiors/exteriors were way, way more extensive than Thief 3's will have to be.

I really, really hope Ion Storm does go for this route. I'd love a free-form-ish Thief game, where you get missions through contacting people, and not just pre-set levels and all that.