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Thread: Why H6 will still be worse than H:BM

  1. #1
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    Default Why H6 will still be worse than H:BM

    I am a huge fan of the Hitman franchise so -needless to say- if Hitman 6 would truly be a Blood Money 2, I would be ecstatic. However, I suspect that this is not going to be the case. I expect that we will get an improved version of Absolution and not an improved version of Blood Money, like most people are asking for. I will explain why I feel this way.

    The keyword here is generic. With Absolution, the franchise made a big step towards making everything more generic.
    • That map thing is a bit silly, unrealistic and difficult for new players? => replace with generic minimap
    • Oh no, we have broken one of the game's core mechanics. How will they find their targets and special objects now? => insert generic "make character and objects glow in bright color" mechanic.
    • Players have to play levels over again and again, stalking NPC's and memorizing their routes? =>insert generic "follow the glowing path" mechanic
    • The controls for fiberwire are different from other weapons to simulate actually tightening a rope? => replace with generic "press button to play animation" mechanic
    • Death is a fun and original minigame that let's you vent your frustration after having just been discovered calmly trying to consort with the enemy, for which the price is an unlikely revival? => Nah, new players won't understand it, better replace it with a normal generic death. Familiar is good. Original is bad.
    • The player has to mind how much people he kills in any location or else he won't have containers to hide them in and is then forced to think where to hide his bodies to have the least chance of them getting detected? => Just surround every NPC with 4 containers. Whatever you do, don't make player have to replay a level, do any observing/testing or -god forbid- think.
    • You have to observe people's mannerism/facial expressions to see who the person getting suspicious is? => Replace with the most generic of all generic mechanics: a big pointer, so that new players can switch straight over from their latest FPS and don't feel lost. And while we're at it, let's also add another gimmicky "ping" sound, we could just let the music get more intense or, you know, just let the player think and look around for himself, but clearly we are creating these games for drooling morons.


    Don't think too much. Don't look around too much. Follow the glowing light. Press the button it says on the screen. Number goes up = good. Number goes down = bad. And most of all, don't learn anything new.

    I'm not even going to discuss obvious stuff like linearity, focus on graphics and an embarrassingly bad story with equally embarrassing characters. I would only like to point out that putting most of your time and money into cutscenes and graphics is another characteristic of a generic game. I do feel like this should be said explicitly: I couldn't care less about your cutscenes or graphics. Focus on the gameplay. Tell that to your clueless publishers who are undoubtedly forcing you to make all these horrible design decisions.

    That being said, what will I expect to happen this time around? I'm not going to present a doomsday scenario. I do believe the devs when they say the new game will feature no checkpoints and play more like a sandbox. What I don't believe however, is that they will "go back to their roots". What they will most likely do is:
    1. Take absolution.
    2. Have less emphasis on the story.
    3. Remove checkpoints.
    4. Make locations bigger.
    5. Make the radius of recognition of NPC's shorter.
    6. Make NPC's not recognize you with a full-face mask on.
    7. Possibly remove the handcovering mechanic and replace it with a new, equally gamebreaking mechanic.

    That's probably the extend of what they'll do. Instead of "not fixing a game that isn't broken" and making small improvements on BM, they will just tweak Absolution. And a tweaked Absolution is still not a Hitman game.

    You know what would really drive my point home, if in the next game all NPC dialogue is in English, "to make it more accessible". That's the final proof I need that this once brilliant franchise has lost all of it's appeal for me. I really hope I'm wrong about all of this. I really hope I can look back on this post after the release, and feel stupid. My only fear is that I won't.
    Last edited by WouterVlaminck; 09-03-2014 at 03:47 PM.

  2. #2
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    These sure don't sound like baseless, generic assumptions at all!

    Btw, you didn't have to tighten the fiber wire in Blood Money.

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    Man! This game hasn't been even released, no trailers have appeared, yet you tell that whatever developers would do it's still won't be as good as Blood Money. Of course that they can't retrogress too far in mechanics, but the most important is that won't they create game for mindless and casuals.
    Hitman is the series where you have to THINK to have a satisfaction playing, and it loses any sense when you're doing too much rumble. Even some kind of instinct can be usefully implemented (if not overused) to have enjoyable and strategic game.
    Last edited by kewlak; 09-04-2014 at 07:59 AM.

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    blood money 2 would be blood money came out a long time ago... it would be like bringing out a new gta with the exact same map from the last game.

    but I agree they need to draw more from blood money but these guys clearly know how to make a great game and are listening to the fans so don't be so pessimistic.

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    OP: I agree with a lot, nay all, of your criticisms of Absolution. Yes, much of it was embarrassing and I returned my copy to Gamestop three days later for half my money back, but we have to at least give the developers a chance on this new game.

    Hopefully this will quell your fears:

    I vaguely remember reading around the time of Absolution's release that Square-Enix was annualizing the series. They were planning to install yearly releases much in the vain of Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and almost every major sports game on the roster. Square Enix Montreal and IOI were going to switch off year to year, just like how TreyArch and Infinity Ward did for so many years with Call of Duty. They thought they had a great formula here, but somewhere along the lines, they realized that the fans were not satisfied.

    You mentioned some of the specific promises as well as Square-Enix saying that IOI are going to focus on bringing the series back to its roots. If that were not true, we would have had another Hitman game in November 2012, another in November 2013, and yet another this coming November. But that did not happen. Why? Because they really are going back to the drawing board and pouring all of their resources into making us the next truly great Hitman game.

    Now, I understand skepticism. I've stated in another thread that after the marvel that was Blood Money, I decided to pre-order and buy Absolution on Day One. Similarly, after the burn that was Absolution, I will wait until I read other dedicated fans' reactions before spending my hard earned money on Hitman 6.

    There is something to be said of the difference between healthy skepticism and downright pessimism.

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    anything can be horrible if you try hard enough to see it that way, and you're doing a great job, without anything to even see! congratulations!

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    OP chill. Blood Money wasn't even the greatest Hitman in my opinion. I missed the dark and gritty feel of Codename 47. Therefor I liked Contracts better. Absolution was a horrible fail no doubt, but to piss all over a game that's not even out of development and futhermore putting down the devs, claiming they have no idea of how to redeem the series they made?? Seriously come on dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Master47 View Post
    OP chill. Blood Money wasn't even the greatest Hitman in my opinion. I missed the dark and gritty feel of Codename 47. Therefor I liked Contracts better. Absolution was a horrible fail no doubt, but to piss all over a game that's not even out of development and futhermore putting down the devs, claiming they have no idea of how to redeem the series they made?? Seriously come on dude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kewlak View Post
    Man! This game hasn't been even released, no trailers have appeared, yet you tell that whatever developers would do it's still won't be as good as Blood Money. Of course that they can't retrogress too far in mechanics, but the most important is that won't they create game for mindless and casuals.
    Hitman is the series where you have to THINK to have a satisfaction playing, and it loses any sense when you're doing too much rumble. Even some kind of instinct can be usefully implemented (if not overused) to have enjoyable and strategic game.
    Well I am 26 years old and maybe 18 - 19 years a PC player. To be honest with you. Todays gaming is not what it used to be. Only few games keep standards. Most games are getting more and more stupid. To say it honestly, back in years of Contracts - gaming was more like an underground. But today gaming moved from underground into greyzone so everyone can play and game should be NICE and easy. And they don´t think about replay. So his " low expectations " against new H6 are not misplaced. They are just thoughts of the experienced player. They now we will buy the game. Because the trailers, they can be edited however they want and gameplay video can be played as they want. There is a nice saying - You fool me once - shame on you, you fool me twice - shame on me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by branco18 View Post
    Well I am 26 years old and maybe 18 - 19 years a PC player. To be honest with you. Todays gaming is not what it used to be. Only few games keep standards. Most games are getting more and more stupid. To say it honestly, back in years of Contracts - gaming was more like an underground. But today gaming moved from underground into greyzone so everyone can play and game should be NICE and easy. And they don´t think about replay. So his " low expectations " against new H6 are not misplaced. They are just thoughts of the experienced player. They now we will buy the game. Because the trailers, they can be edited however they want and gameplay video can be played as they want. There is a nice saying - You fool me once - shame on you, you fool me twice - shame on me!
    I'm in your age and i know what you mean. Only good graphic and effortless rumble matter these days, because common player is bored casual. Maybe i believe in good future of this series little too much. But then all characters from action games are the same for me. And Hitman has a potential and good legacy to stand out from the rest. Luckily there are difficulty levels, and only because of expert and purist i played Absolution.

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    I'm 30. I grew up on the NES and DOS. I appreciate games that provide me with challenge, yeah, it sounds like such a cliché I know. Nonetheless that's what I like most of the time. I'm not afraid of repeating stuff and trying out a lot of different strategies for the games I play. This is where the casual audience will most likely fall off.
    Trial and Error is a no go these days. People are focussing on fluent gameplay-experiences that alleviates frustration and repetition. IO even mentioned this exact thing as a part of thier Absolution reveal.
    Times change and when you're making tripple A titles, you have to make sure your product will sell. That being said I'm confident IO have learned from Absolution's reception, thus will be providing the features that made previous Himans great and somehow still manage to cater to the masses that aren't gonna play the game more than once expecting to beat it flawlessly.

    One thing we must not forget though; challenge is only good if implemented in a fashion correctly fitting the game. People crying for challenge, myself included, would be pissed if the difficulty was relentless and unforgiving like in the NES days. I remember how in the first Hitman you couldn't save during missions, which caused a lot of frustration among the players.

    Also the balance between realism and fun gameplay is a * to handle these days where people are yelling for real life situational encounters all the time. I for one wouldn't mind having the disguise system from C47. To me it's not fun gameplay if I can't move around "freely" in a sandbox game. Realism is really a double edged sword more often than not when it comes to fun gameplay.

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    After the constant flops this year, I can understand the OP. From WatchDogs to Destiny games don't feel tailored anymore. Just broad games for as many players as possible. But I'm giving IO the benifit of doubt until it comes out. I really hope as you said they don't just update Absolution. But Really head back to BloodMoney/Contract... heck all of the previous titles. Get all mechanics back in, like closing doors for one, looking through keyholes (maybe) and even Blood trails from BM. Please devs, if you find that making bloodtrails costs too much processing power, then you are on the wrong course. By all means lower the graphics then. And (personal opinion) please get rid of the danger icons/pointers along with the noise they make (especially that terrible clicking noise when someone was near. I actually thought my pc was screwing up the sound). Previous titles made you pay attention to those around you, look at their body language, not the yellow arrow telling you someone's suspicious. And the entire disguise system of course, maybe not BM level of easiness but a mix of BM and contracts. With that I could go on, but there are enough posts on things like that.

    -p.s My first post
    I will no longer be tricked by any type of trailer or gameplay footage. I believe everyone was excited for Absolution after watching the gameplay trailers, without realizing that that's the style of the entire game. Not just that one sequence when S*** hits the fans. Maybe give us a Beta we can play? please?

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    That's a very good first post. And welcome to the forums.

    I'm glad that you pointed out some of the lesser-discussed issues, particularly the pointer arrows and audio cues replacing the need to pay attention to your surroundings. Hitman 6 will have a lot of potential if they do not water it down to cater to the masses.

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    I won't be pre-ordering this time around. I can say that much. However, like I previously said, I'm still confident they've learned from Absolution's absolute fail. I'm confident they can bring back the series to its former state, much appreciated by the fans. They definitely have it in them to do so.

  15. #15
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    Tightening the fiber wire often ended in a more brutal kill.

    Absolution watered everything down into a generic mess, magic pockets, on the rails cutscene assassinations after you've spent ages getting through an action level. People seeing through your disguise from seeing half the back of your head as you turn the corner at the end of a hallway.. unrealistic xray instincts, arcade like score points littering the screen and the newspaper debriefing replaced with boring scorecard. The gps map meant you had to stop what you're doing to realistically look at it, requiring timing and observation, now a mini map always present xray vision make game for kids who can't use their head to solve things. Then the Monty python CQC system where you punch a guard the face, they punch you in the face, you punch them the face, they punch you face, you die.

    If HM6 wants to be great, it must discard everything from absolution, and carrying on from Blood money, just as blood money carried on from contacts, and contacts carried on from silent assassin. I won't be buying it if it's Absolution 2.

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