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Thread: Fighting Mechanics

  1. #1
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    Default Fighting Mechanics

    I know hitman isn't a fighting game but in the case of not having any weapons and your in danger I think the melee system should be something under heavy consideration.

    I liked how blood money introduced somewhat of a way to knock enemies out but it was too simple..either disarm or headbutt and a quick one-two punch.
    Absolutions fighting was kind of tedious in a way. I also don't like pressing a sequence of buttons just to knock someone out.

    In my opinion ( just an opinion so open for critisim but pls no arguments ) if anyone has played any of the batman games I think the fighting is fluent and amazing. Its sort of simple but fun. You have attack, (preferbly punch) takedowns, gadgets, ( not to necessary for a hitman in a fight) and last but not least the counter system( a little icon appears to press the counter button and leaves you open for attack or takedown). I'm not saying put emphasis on physical combat but if its needed I think they should have a free flow fighting system similar to this.

    If anyone has any cool or interesting ideas I'd like to hear

  2. #2
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    In my opinion, sticking to gunfighting is the best option. A hand-to-hand combat system is out of place in Hitman.

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    Honestly i didn't really mind that Blood Money had easy knocking down technique. Enemies were mostly suprised that somebody attacks them (it's stealth game after all), that's why they shouldn't resist very much, besides 47 is stronger than common guard.
    I also didn't mind quick time events in Absolution, but what i didn't like was that you couldn't escape from fight after start it.
    Like gkkiller said there shouldn't be many hand to hand actions in the series (like the fight against big Mexican from Absolution).

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    The "hand-to-hand" in Blood Money was too easy, what saved it was that players preferred to come from behind.

    The objective of Hitman is too sneak up behind someone and either kill or pacify them. But, there are instances when $h!t hits the fan and you have to improvise. I like the button matching sequence method, but I have to say, it was pretty weak in Absolution. The button matching has been in a lot of games and with good results, and I don't think it should be abandoned just because it was badly executed in Absolution. I'm less in favor of a free-form mechanic where you have to dodge and block because, this is Hitman, not Street Fighter. Once your cover is blown you need to neutralize the threat immediately. Also, the fighting itself should be challenging to sway players from abusing it.

    I've thought about this a lot. I like the button matching idea, but it should vary in difficulty. In Absolution, the fighting was a joke, and too easy. It should vary by situation. If 47 is fighting a fat chef, or a fancy hair stylist, the pause between buttons should be longer. However, if it's against a secret service agent or a bodyguard, it should be harder and the button sequence should be faster. I think that'll give players an incentive to not get busted.

    Also, when 47 wrestles an armed NPC like in Blood Money, the gun should go off randomly. They should bring that back.

    I thought the hand-to-hand in Absolution had potential, but, like many other things, they blew it. If I remember correctly, there were only the same 2 or 3 buttons in every sequence. That's part of the reason why it was a joke. Every time I failed was because it was so easy. Every button should be included in the sequence, including analog stick rotations and button combinations.

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    why would you want combat in a stealth game to be quick and fluid? batman combat is designed for fighting large groups of enemies, and we don't want that. ideally a combat system for a hitman game would make fistfights with one enemy pretty challenging, two really difficult, three nearly impossible, and four completely impossible without firing a weapon.

    that can be pretty easily accomplished with QTEs, but a custom built fighting system would be better because it could allow for more creativity and dynamic gameplay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_69 View Post
    However, if it's against a secret service agent or a bodyguard, it should be harder and the button sequence should be faster. I think that'll give players an incentive to not get busted.
    It was already in Absolution. It was harder to beat ICA agent than other guard. Also civilians were easier than guards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_69 View Post
    Every time I failed was because it was so easy.
    That's interesting
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_69 View Post
    Every button should be included in the sequence, including analog stick rotations and button combinations.
    That would * up fighting even more. First you say that it's not Street Fighter and now you want EVERY button to be involved?
    Last edited by kewlak; 09-02-2014 at 01:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kewlak View Post
    It was already in Absolution. It was harder to beat ICA agent than other guard. Also civilians were easier than guards.
    I still remember it being too easy. The bar fight especially. It was so easy it was boring, and it was so boring I lost a couple of times. That's what I meant.

    That would * up fighting even more. First you say that it's not Street Fighter and now you want EVERY button to be involved?
    When I said I didn't want Street Fighter, I meant having a free form fighting mechanic involving blocking, dodging and evading and an energy bar for every unarmed altercation 47 encounters. That was pretty clear. I don't know if you've played God of War (No, I'm not suggesting a GOW fighting mechanic), Kratos often has QTE's and you have to match a button or control in sequence, these include rotating the analog stick in a certain direction. This was a good example of the button sequence in action, whereas in Absolution it was trash because there were only 2 buttons involved and it was very predictable and boring. You're most likely on PC so you probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Here's an area where the PC holds us back.

    Single button taps, repeated button taps, L+R trigger combinations, analog rotations, I'm not setting this in stone, I'm just offering some suggestions. At the end of the day, they'll have to be tested first and adjusted. The button sequence is a good mechanic, but Absolution's was the worst example of it.

    Bottom line, these are rare instances you'll encounter while playing Hitman, as the objective is not get busted. The Blood Money CQC system was too easy, everything else involves strategy and the risk of getting caught, so why not this? That's the beauty of Hitman, if you screw up you can always reload.

    If you have any better ideas your welcome to share.
    Last edited by Agent_69; 09-02-2014 at 06:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvarok View Post
    that can be pretty easily accomplished with QTEs, but a custom built fighting system would be better because it could allow for more creativity and dynamic gameplay.
    What's a custom built fighting system? A lot of NPC's in Hitman aren't gonna stand there and go toe to toe with you, especially if your visibly armed and they're civilians, they're gonna go running for the hills. This is why I think QTE's will work well, it's like a sudden death scenario where either you take them down or fail. Ideally, if you fail, certain NPC's like chefs or custodians should break wind and run away from you. NPC's that are willing to take you on should be able to knock you out if you fail the button sequence, maybe even shoot you and call for help. You can always reload the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvarok View Post
    why would you want combat in a stealth game to be quick and fluid? batman combat is designed for fighting large groups of enemies, and we don't want that. ideally a combat system for a hitman game would make fistfights with one enemy pretty challenging, two really difficult, three nearly impossible, and four completely impossible without firing a weapon.

    that can be pretty easily accomplished with QTEs, but a custom built fighting system would be better because it could allow for more creativity and dynamic gameplay.
    I'm not saying put too much thought into it..but its agent 47 he should be able to kick some serious ass if he happens to be out of ammo or he's in a sticky situation. Not completely like batman..just attack takedown and if someone is about to hit him you should be able to press a button to counter it and then press punch to smash his face in

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    I actually liked the Blood Money approach. An other option could be to have it work the first time when no one's aware of your hostile intentions. If someone spots you hitting and knocking out someone else, your next attack will have a chance at being parried if you try attacking aware guards/civilians. Guards will ofc engage you and civilian act like civilians, but if you get close and try knocking them out, they might push you away. If you continuously try knocking the same person out, the chances of success will be increased with each attempt. The only time you will be garantied a successful takedown would be the first attempt, if no one knows you're hostile, or say after a set amount of parries.

    - No one's suspicious = 100% rate of successful takedown.
    - People are alert = 70% risk of being parried, with deminishing returns. Will be reduced to 60% on the next attempt, 50% the next time around and so forth; 40%, 30%, 20%, 10%, 0%. This resets if you change target while people are alerted.

    The above strongly encourages stealth aproaches. You will still however be able to knock people out, but your odds are only favorable if no suspicion has been raised - or if you try taking out the same person over and over (not recommended).
    Last edited by Master47; 09-24-2014 at 11:15 PM.

  11. #11
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    Hmmm a more in depth fighting system isn't a bad idea. But I would rather call it a pacify/take down system. Going all out like batman would be a really bad idea, since most likely if there are multiple people around you, they won't wait to attack 47. They'll just shoot or attack all at once.
    A system where you can pacify/takedown an enemy and maybe chain actions would be good. If the other character is very close maybe maximun 3-5 steps away.
    This should be a very limited distance, it would break the game seeing 47 fly across the map chaining takedowns.

  12. #12
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    I think combat system should not be boxing match. 47 needs to be quick about it. I think the button you normally point gun you should focus on your oponent. And When you are focusing, 47 automaticly facing him and blocking him. When you make a counter attack it will be quick takedown. If he has something in his hands, this way you can disarm him and put him down with it. This system would be quick. If you grab the guy by using " use " key then you can break his neck or simply pacify him. Or just slam him to take him out I think this is the way...

  13. #13
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    Make t like Blood Money.That's it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bixxel View Post
    Make t like Blood Money.That's it.
    Like I said, I too wouldn't mind Blood Money's system to return. It might be simple, but it worked, it was fun - and no one complained about it.

    One thing I can say for sure Hitman isn't about melee fighting, a one button takedown should more than suffice. Take a look at my post a few ones up for a slightly more challenging approach to BM's sytem.

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    The melee in blood money was nice, absolution was awesome against mini.boss characters (47 completely owns the black lost saint lady) but otherwise button sequences were stupid, they became you hitting a guard in the face, the guard hitting you in the face..back and forth like that until you died, looked like a comedy, don't bring back anything from absolution in fact!

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    Yep, basically don't make the game too cinematic. In depth melee only sounds good from a cinematic point of view, but for gameplay, it makes it boring. QTE's are the worse form of gameplay, if done carelessly. And batman style fighting is in my opinion almost a crazy thought for a hitman game. Since 47 isn't in a world filled with melee ai waiting for a chance to strike.
    If they spot you they'll pull a gun on you to make you surrender. If you disarm any guard after that, they all shoot AT THE SAME TIME. End
    And I'm not necessarily saying not to try anything new with the franchise, just saying at least do something truly new. Not something that's being done to death now. But above all stick to the real roots of a hitman game.

  17. #17
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    I liked blood money's fighting.I mean click.....and guy knocked out.but it was very simple.I mean two punches was terrible.I want absolution's style fighting but just with pressing one key.......click......not pressing a sequence of buttons

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    H6 needs to adopt VATS from Fallout. Pausing the game and give hit chance on vital body parts via percentages. Groin kicks being the most effective. Also the bad guys should look very funny when kicked in their private parts. 47 should then laugh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Master47 View Post
    H6 needs to adopt VATS from Fallout. Pausing the game and give hit chance on vital body parts via percentages. Groin kicks being the most effective. Also the bad guys should look very funny when kicked in their private parts. 47 should then laugh.
    Agree with the funny faces. Not sure 47 should laugh.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master47 View Post
    H6 needs to adopt VATS from Fallout. Pausing the game and give hit chance on vital body parts via percentages. Groin kicks being the most effective. Also the bad guys should look very funny when kicked in their private parts. 47 should then laugh.
    yeah yeah.....what a nice idea.I agree
    but....47 should then laugh
    I don't know you are kidding or not...but if you are serious it's terrible.47 should keep his Cold blood and Being emotionless........he should be incurious about what happens to his enemies...you're making him as terrible as Dante in devil may cry,I mean laugh after killing enemies,Hitman isn't a comedy game.

  21. #21
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    I think the VATS isn't suited for hitman. Fallout was a very action oriented game. And you could only use it so often. The rest was all out gun fight. And it would be the worst if you had to select where to attack everytime.
    My best option is *BloodMoney*. Instead of some sort of constant combat button. Do it like BM, where you would push someone. If you push someone and they are still standing, then a system turns that person into a threat. 47 can then attack freely instead of pushing maybe some sort of cqc like MG. But pushing would be the best imo.
    Being able to push someone down the stairs, over a blacony, or into a pool is what gave BM an amazing feeling of freedom. Case sensitive options that is almost a status quo now can only do so much.

    I know some devs are pretty much pressured to keep up with 'modern' gaming, with 'case sensitive' hints. (e.g press A to push/pull/pay respects). Its a fight I know I will never win if I beg for a break in the trend, since they want to sell their game and it would be safer to go with the flow rather than do something else.

  22. #22
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    Hitman absolution had pushing someone down the stairs or over balcony too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arvin47 View Post
    Hitman absolution had pushing someone down the stairs or over balcony too...
    lol, that's what I was hinting at when I said, Case sensitive ques can only do so much

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    understood

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    Actually I think 47 should rip off his shirt after taking an enemy down yelling: "come at me bro!". And then beautiful women should crawl to him moaning.

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