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Thread: Lara Croft: The RPG

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pomeranianpuppy View Post
    I would like more choice in the way of hairstyles and outfits though-But I'm not bloody paying extra for it
    Crystal will want you to, though.
    Don't send me PM's I'm too classy for that kind of thing. (my inbox is full, kay?)
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    I think we can all agree that SOME RPG elements regarding combat and exploration would be welcome and good for the franchise. So, RPG elements regarding gameplay (combat, exploration, diferent weapons and types of damage, multiple paths and many stuff to find) and not regarding story (multiple endings, romance options etc.), right?
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  3. #53
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    I can agree to that

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    I think so far the most customisable TR game was Legend with it's vast array of outfits and actually that side of it worked incredibly well. Put Lara in plain functional clothes like in TR(2013) and I would never think that is good. I'm looking for outfits with way more style, attitude and sexiness but I know not every fan wants that. I think it's great to give more choice to the gamer but relationships and elements that significantly change the story's ending become impossible to build the next game of the back off. The idea of kill or spare/ trust or don't trust and then a short term different response from other characters would be good.

    I never liked regen health as it prompts bullet sponge and hide combat tactics. Some form of reintegrating medi packs for full heal would be nice. A better inventory system more like say TR1-6 or RE4 or RE5 would be so much better. Something where you can see what guns and ammo you have and possibly even combine weapon parts like in TRLR.
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    ok, long explanation indeed. mine will be as long as well.
    here we go.

    ok, to point 1:
    so in other words; you cant please everyone. i think this is very well known. people already complained about other things we have in TR like lara crying, being scared, etc.
    even for the ME franchise when they have made changes people still had problems with it. like the boring planet scanning in ME2. it was optional, just if you dont have the resources, your crew dies.

    but i do agree with the point that putting trust or faith in to the developers is not the best thing to do.

    point 2:
    ehm, didnt CD already took the risk by making lara scared and helpless and making TR even 18+?

    at times you have to take risks. just look at thous indie developers. for some its their very first game and either they are being successful or not but they took the risk. thats what AAA rarely do. they keep sticking to the same formula that worked the first time or for the last few games. but in the end, people do want some changes.
    i can also say that valve should have never made freeman partner up with alyx. but look what happened: HL2 epi 2 turned out to be the best HL title ever, seen by a lot of people and they liked having alyx with freeman. and before that freeman was always alone. sure, some people didnt like it but the devs took the risk.
    hell, even sanctum 2 had huge changes for the better or the worse compared to the first game. and thats just a indie developer.
    you can die, limited amount of building turrets, some time limits between waves, only 2 guns for each character.
    some people hated it, some loved it. the devs took the risk and it turned out to be doing well.

    AAA are just too money focused and are afraid of changes. thats why TR failed throughout the series because it was practically the same whit some upgrades. but now look how successful this TR turned out to be and they did a lot of changes. for the better or the worse. but it was a success.

    look, we have a thread about RPG elements. so far i didnt read from anyone that TR should be a full RPG. just that it should have some RPG elements. this proofs that people do want some changes for the franchise. even romance is an option a bunch of people want. regardless if lara is with a man or a woman. especially sam.

    point 3:
    well, this cant be helped. CD knows just too well that a lot of people want lara and sam. but as i have pointed out above; some people like to see it happen.
    i do understand your view and from others that they dont want to see TR fail again because of this. but i have to point out to ME3 with its optional gay part. people complained, and sure, bioware got a storm for it and yet, the game did well, even with its worst ending in gaming history.

    you cant please everyone. some are outraged about it, some are neutral, some you can say, are being pragmatic about it.

    point 4:
    ok, i think you over react a bit with these options. i do see the point you are making here though but here is why:
    in dragon age and mass effect you dont have them and you really have a lot of freedom what your character should do. but, lara is a fixed character. just like riddick. you have options but doesnt matter what you do, its still riddick. and you cant make any changes on him what so ever.
    also, now that im playing the witcher 2, you cant customize geralt either, besides changing his weaponry and armory, and his character is pretty much the same, even if you have the option to choose if you should be nice or a jerk.


    point 5 and 6:
    everyone has their view on every character they play. i personally dont want to be able to change laras entire look either. choosing different hairstyle would be nice though. changing clothing as we had before is all fine too and i think no one here has a problem with that. but as i have mentioned before, some choices that does not deflect from laras actual character. and romance was never really a case in any TR title before since her sexuality has been kept ambiguous. so giving the player to choice to exploit this would be interesting regardless.

    point 7:
    true. but as i have pointed out for point 1; you cant please everyone.


    ok, i hope i didnt miss anything. but i guess you can say im stubborn as well.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post

    It's why I'm suggesting deepening what's already there rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, as it were.
    That's how I see it though. Adding a love interest (be that serious or casual encounter) is just that, deepening Lara's character growth, by showing more of Lara's personality traits, all this in addition to her adventurous qualities - not changing that aspect of her

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    Personally, I have never been in favour of Lara having a romance. I see her as Artemis, and prefer her that way. So I would never use romance options myself. But, I think it might be an idea to have them in for those who do want them.
    You've brought up this platform before, comparing Lara to either Artemis or Aphrodite. But why do you take it to such extremes; that Lara must either be a "pure virgin" (Artemis) or an oversexed nympho (Aphrodite)?

    Surely there isn't some space for a middle ground? Like where Lara can be focused on her exploits and career goals, but still once in a while, when the right person and encounter presents itself, she can... give in to temptation? Is it so impossible to consider that she'd have such strong attraction that she might actually want a passionate experience for her own needs?

    I mean an occasional diversion doesn't make her (or anyone for that matter) any less committed to her career pursuits.

    Oh and if you really knew your Greek lore, you'd know that even the virgin Artemis had strong feelings to another

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post

    My argument is and always has been - Lara obviously has feelings, she is not a robot, but keep any romancing out of the games.
    If we're in agreement that Lara has feelings, why avoid it as an important part of her character development? This isn't something to just be put on the shelf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya_Clemons View Post
    Don't criticize just because I'm lost, but:

    What does RPG mean?
    Aside from the literal explanation that it's the genre classification of games as Role Playing Game, there are deeper criteria to distinguish it from other genres of games.

    Now most people rely solely on the mechanics; stats, number crunching, leveling, character classes and skill trees. As well as other features like inventory, gearing and looting.

    But mechanics alone doesn't encapsulate the gameplay experience that truly immerses the player. After all, lots of games have a method of leveling up, such as Call of Duty and Star Wars the Force Unleashed. But leveling up there makes neither an RPG.

    The way I've always seen it, what separates role playing a character from merely controlling a character, is when the player defines the role. The character should be a vessel in which the player expresses themselves through that character in the world they explore. In other words, the character becomes an extension of the player them self.

    This leads to another integral component of RPGs, when the player takes on the role of the character, they have the freedom to really interact with the world around them. This is far deeper than merely traversing through the world, as is the case with typical action games, where the levels are merely a backdrop one passes through while killing enemies.

    To interact is to explore, encounter the people and get involved in complex exchanges, learning the history of the people and the world, making discoveries where the gameplay has the player actually involved with the story, not merely passively observing it as it unfolds.

    It's the personalized expression and interaction that role playing is really about.
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  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by d1n0_xD View Post
    I think we can all agree that SOME RPG elements regarding combat and exploration would be welcome and good for the franchise. So, RPG elements regarding gameplay (combat, exploration, diferent weapons and types of damage, multiple paths and many stuff to find) and not regarding story (multiple endings, romance options etc.), right?
    I think we could all agree on that much, yes. I know I do! It's the added extras that create the havoc

    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    That's how I see it though. Adding a love interest (be that serious or casual encounter) is just that, deepening Lara's character growth, by showing more of Lara's personality traits, all this in addition to her adventurous qualities - not changing that aspect of her
    It's how you see it, Adobe, but as you well know by now, I disagree. We've both explained our positions on this one at length.

    You've brought up this platform before, comparing Lara to either Artemis or Aphrodite. But why do you take it to such extremes; that Lara must either be a "pure virgin" (Artemis) or an oversexed nympho (Aphrodite)?
    Lara is a modern day goddess, or hadn't you noticed? She is an icon created as an exemplar and she tends to the same sort of behavioural extremes. In the same way as a Superhero, Lara is intended to be human by the loosest definition only. They are larger than life characters who embody certain things. Lara never gives up, never fails, and she overcomes completely insurmountable odds as a matter of routine. Whether you see her as the spirit of adventure or the indefatigable nature of the human spirit, she exists on a level beyond the merely human.

    Honestly, though, Adobe, we've been over this so many times that we both know we're not going to agree. I see Lara as someone who is so completely focused on her career that she has no time or inclination for the pursuit of anything else.

    I see her as being above casual encounters, you're just desperate to get her laid any way you can!

    We are never going to agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post

    I see her as being above casual encounters, you're just desperate to get her laid any way you can!
    And you're just selfishly depriving her of the simple pleasures of life, and some beneficial stress relief. Seems I make a far better wingman than you

    Oh btw, are we now gonna see some new Lara/Doctor comics, featuring the new 12th Doctor?
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    And you're just selfishly depriving her of the simple pleasures of life, and some beneficial stress relief. Seems I make a far better wingman than you

    Oh btw, are we now gonna see some new Lara/Doctor comics, featuring the new 12th Doctor?
    I'd need a model for him, and I don't even know if I like him, yet, let alone if I can write him anywhere near convincingly.

    Plus, as you are oh-so-subtly reminding me, I do have an incomplete story to finish. The pieces are swirling around in my head. As soon as they come together properly in a way I can actually create, I will continue.

    (For those who are wondering what Adobe & I are talking about, click my signature banner )
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    Sorry, Metal, but I don't accept your rebuttal. All I hear are very weak arguments like "can't please everyone" and "sometimes you just need to take a risk" and "look at game XYZ how they did it" and "can't be helped", etc. And empty platitudes like "people want change" (again - no , Sherlock)

    And this is not good enough. I laid out some solid reasons and you're basically just waving them off as irrelevant. If you don't even take the points (and thus the fan's wishes) seriously, I don't think we'll come to an agreement, so we'll just have to move on.

    I'll just quickly respond to a couple of lines...


    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    but in the end, people do want some changes.
    Of course they do. Myself included. But not the kind of change you're proposing.

    i can also say that valve should have never made freeman partner up with alyx. but look what happened: HL2 epi 2 turned out to be the best HL title ever, seen by a lot of people and they liked having alyx with freeman. and before that freeman was always alone. sure, some people didnt like it but the devs took the risk.
    I will say this one more time: I do not care what "worked" in some completely different game with a completely different fanbase. It has no bearing on this situation.

    AAA are just too money focused and are afraid of changes.
    I couldn't disagree more. The entire reboot was a big risk. The xbox deal was a massive risk. I can't believe after all of this we have still people out there like you writing BS blanket statements about CD "being afraid of change/risk". Just stop it already, you're only making yourself look foolish every single time you make this nonsense claim.

    look, we have a thread about RPG elements. so far i didnt read from anyone that TR should be a full RPG. just that it should have some RPG elements. this proofs that people do want some changes for the franchise.
    Look, we have a thread where people are heavily divided on romancing options (like usual). Even within the pro-romancing camp there is struggle on how to go about it.

    The only thing that this "proofs" is that fans will be fans. Do not try to speak on behalf of the entire fandom with empty platitude "the fans want some change". That means nothing.

    even romance is an option a bunch of people want.
    There have always been a bunch of people who want romance. Remember Kurtis? I am sooooo glad the devs didn't listen to those bunch of people and paired off Lara with Kurtis

    CD knows just too well that a lot of people want lara and sam.
    CD knows just too well that the vast majority do NOT want Lara x Sam. And they made it perfectly clear in the official Q&A's that they are not going to go there.

    ok, i think you over react a bit with these options.
    No, I am not. I think you are too blind to see the reality of today's uber politically correct climate and how much of an impact such options would have.

    but as i have mentioned before, some choices that does not deflect from laras actual character.
    I can't think of many things that impacts a person's character than a freaking romantic relationship

    her sexuality has been kept ambiguous.
    Wrong.

    ok, i hope i didnt miss anything. but i guess you can say im stubborn as well.
    I already knew you were stubborn, yes. But now I also think you've got blinders on and that you are quite indifferent when it comes to fans' dismay if it goes against your personal agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    If we're in agreement that Lara has feelings, why avoid it as an important part of her character development?
    Because it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    This isn't something to just be put on the shelf.
    No one is putting it on the shelf. It has been on the shelve for 16+ years. In fact, there is no shelf

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    I think we could all agree on that much, yes. I know I do! It's the added extras that create the havoc


    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    Lara is a modern day goddess, or hadn't you noticed? She is an icon created as an exemplar and she tends to the same sort of behavioural extremes. In the same way as a Superhero, Lara is intended to be human by the loosest definition only. They are larger than life characters who embody certain things. Lara never gives up, never fails, and she overcomes completely insurmountable odds as a matter of routine. Whether you see her as the spirit of adventure or the indefatigable nature of the human spirit, she exists on a level beyond the merely human.

    Honestly, though, Adobe, we've been over this so many times that we both know we're not going to agree. I see Lara as someone who is so completely focused on her career that she has no time or inclination for the pursuit of anything else.
    Well said

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    I see her as being above casual encounters, you're just desperate to get her laid any way you can!
    Yup! Like I said in my earlier post - some people are just desperately trying to vicariously get into Lara's pants

    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    And you're just selfishly depriving her of the simple pleasures of life
    She's not real. Ergo, it is not selfish

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    OH, you DID NOT just double post!

    *snaps fingers*

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    Talking


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    lol, looks like it we cant come to an agreement. but well, at least we both explained out reasons. well, lets move on then.
    thanks anyway for reading my long text.
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    I honestly think that if TR went permanently XBox exclusive, it would cause less of a storm in the fanbase than adding romance.

    Putting in choices MIGHT be possible without setting off a major firestorm, but anything scripted would trigger the fan rage to end all fan rages. Quite apart from anything else, no-one could possibly be good enough for 'our' Lara, could they?

    ***

    Also, time to resurrect this:

    Last edited by Elliot Kane; 08-26-2014 at 05:47 AM.
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    Permanent xbox exclusive or romance? Wow, now that might be a tough choice

    And yes, you are quite right; it would be virtually impossible to find someone for Lara that would come even close to match her, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    lol, looks like it we cant come to an agreement. but well, at least we both explained out reasons. well, lets move on then.
    thanks anyway for reading my long text.
    Right, moving on

    And apologies for the crudeness in those two responses, Rowan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post

    And yes, you are quite right; it would be virtually impossible to find someone for Lara that would come even close to match her, lol.
    Not impossible at all, because I already found the perfect match for Lara. Batman

    Just look at how much they have in common, giving them much they can relate to each other;

    * coming from wealthy and prestigious families
    * tragic circumstances surrounding their parents
    * survival skills
    * cool outfits (hopefully in the next game Lara gets more style)
    * butlers who are their most trusted confidantes (OK, wondering if new Lara will reunite with Winston at some point)

    And really I think Batman is the only one man enough to handle a woman like Lara
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post

    And really I think Batman is the only one man enough to handle a woman like Lara
    I dunno....I think Mort from Family Guy might actually have a shot. LOL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    Not impossible at all, because I already found the perfect match for Lara. Batman

    Just look at how much they have in common, giving them much they can relate to each other;

    * coming from wealthy and prestigious families
    * tragic circumstances surrounding their parents
    * survival skills
    * cool outfits (hopefully in the next game Lara gets more style)
    * butlers who are their most trusted confidantes (OK, wondering if new Lara will reunite with Winston at some point)

    And really I think Batman is the only one man enough to handle a woman like Lara
    Harry Potter also fulfils those criteria, plus relic hunting too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    Not impossible at all, because I already found the perfect match for Lara. Batman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetford View Post
    Harry Potter also fulfils those criteria, plus relic hunting too.
    Way too young, and nowhere near man enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    her lips may say "no", but her body says "yes, yes, yeeeess, YEEESSSSS"
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    Way too young, and nowhere near man enough
    Given that he was born in the 80s, he is actually older than the new Lara.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    I would like the team who made Hitman Go, to work on a Tomb Raider RPG. They are very talented in creating new ways to enjoy great games we all have come to know and love. They did it very well keeping the main focus on FUN...

    Id be very excited for a Tomb Raider RPG. Maybe then we can get rid of the people who work on Tomb Raider and refuse to let us change her hairstyle, their so stubborn about that. Anyone who hates on player choice and customization really shouldnt be in the gaming industry if they arent thinking of the people who are going to be playing the games choosing instead to think of forcing people to do what they want for no other reason than just because... :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Permanent xbox exclusive or romance? Wow, now that might be a tough choice

    And yes, you are quite right; it would be virtually impossible to find someone for Lara that would come even close to match her, lol.



    Right, moving on

    And apologies for the crudeness in those two responses, Rowan
    no problem.

    @AA
    have to agree with the others. NO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    Not impossible at all, because I already found the perfect match for Lara. Batman

    Just look at how much they have in common, giving them much they can relate to each other;

    * coming from wealthy and prestigious families
    * tragic circumstances surrounding their parents
    * survival skills
    * cool outfits (hopefully in the next game Lara gets more style)
    * butlers who are their most trusted confidantes (OK, wondering if new Lara will reunite with Winston at some point)

    And really I think Batman is the only one man enough to handle a woman like Lara
    Well, apart from the whole 'Batman never kills; Lara is a stone cold killer and he would want to arrest her on sight' thing, of course...

    I don't think the best relationships are made by being absolute ethical polar opposites... :P
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