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Thread: This series will never recover

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    Except it's not a guarenteed thing on PS4 thanks to this deal. Square/Crystal have been in bed with Microsoft since at least Underworld with the 360 getting exclusive DLC, timed DLC for the reboot and now this garbage? Yeah PC and Playstation people have every right to be upset.
    OK. We will have to agree to disagree then. Time will tell.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by theend View Post
    Timed exclusive or not, here's the problem.

    The history of tomb raider is based in the playstation and pc market, this is where the vast majority of its fanbase lies.
    I hate that this happen but here's a quick history lesson. The original Tomb Raider came out as a multiplatform game for Sega Saturn, PC and PS one. Sony did this very thing; they bought a five year exclusive. Tomb Raider 2 was in development for Sega Saturn and Rumored N64 but Sony Paid Eidos a money hat so that it wouldn't come out on other consoles. I hated Sony for a long, long time and wouldn't buy their games or systems.

    It's one thing to believe in a project Like Hellblade or Quantum Break and fund a project that would otherwise not get made. However, I'm so against a company paying so a multiplatform game doesn't come out for other consoles.

    Sony (in general) has since changed. At the time, they were just getting started. Now Sony makes great first party games. What Microsoft did by buying a time exclusive with RoTTR is bad for gamers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecstar70 View Post
    OK. We will have to agree to disagree then. Time will tell.
    Except it shouldn't have to that's the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by segamer View Post
    I hate that this happen but here's a quick history lesson. The original Tomb Raider came out for Sega Saturn, PC and PS one. Sony did this very thing. Tomb Raider 2 was in development for Sega Saturn and Rumored N64 but Sony Paid Eidos a money hat so that it wouldn't come out on other consoles.

    It's one thing to believe in a project Like Hellblade or Quantum Break and fund a project that would otherwise not get made. However, I'm so against a company paying so a multiplatform game doesn't come out for other consoles.

    Sony (in general) has since changed. At the time, were just getting started. Now they make great first party games. What Microsoft did is bad for gamers.
    Tomb Raider 2 was still on PC though plus the Nintendo 64 was still using cartridges while the Sony Playstation was using a DVD format which could store more on it. Imagine if Tomb Raider 2 had come out for the N64, it might have come with multiple cartridges thus increasing the workload on the devs. The technology reason is also why Sony got Final Fantasy, developers saw that they could put an entire game on 1 disc instead of multiple cartridges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    Except it shouldn't have to that's the point.
    I'm not picking sides here, but...

    You two are talking in circles. You're convinced that it won't be coming to PS4 because they haven't flat out said so. Instead of radiating some positive vibes and taking "timed exclusive" at face value with a side of hope, you're perpetuating the fact that you want an answer now. We all do.

    Tecstar is, however, taking the information at face value and (if I'm interpreting correctly) has hope that ROTTR will come to PS4 after the deal with Microsoft expires.

    You both are simply going back and forth, with Tecstar agreeing to disagree, but you turn the conversation around to the start again and repeat history.

    The point is, time will tell. We understand it shouldn't have to, but that's the meal we've been fed. We can either eat it and accept it, or push it aside and wait for something better.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    Tomb Raider 2 was still on PC though plus the Nintendo 64 was still using cartridges while the Sony Playstation was using a DVD format which could store more on it. Imagine if Tomb Raider 2 had come out for the N64, it might have come with multiple cartridges thus increasing the workload on the devs. The technology reason is also why Sony got Final Fantasy, developers saw that they could put an entire game on 1 disc instead of multiple cartridges.
    Sony was using CD's for Playstation, not DVDs. Resident Evil 2 came out for N64 on a 512MB cartridge. The point is that Sony did the same thing and I didn't agree with it at the time as I don't agree with now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by segamer View Post
    Sony was using CD's for Playstation, not DVDs. Resident Evil 2 came out for N64 on a 512MB cartridge. The point is that Sony did the same thing and I didn't agree with it at the time as I don't agree with now.
    That's right it was CDs. Still though that storage capability is one reason why 3rd party devs shyed away from the N64 and went to Sony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    That's right it was CDs. Still though that storage capability is one reason why 3rd party devs shyed away from the N64 and went to Sony.
    Regardless, one of the most innovative, original, standard-setting and best video games of all time was only found on Nintendo 64: GoldenEye. You didn't need a 4GB disc for that.
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    I think the reputation of CD could be ruined permanently with the track they are on. As for TR yes it won't sell that well on Xbox one alone but when it comes out on other consoles should do fine. There is always going to be a market for TR games and Lara Croft.

    When it comes to TR and the Sega consoles the Saturn was weaker in power and the dreamcast was a flop so that is probably why TR didn't continue on those. I think Sega were too busy focused on savaging the transition of Sonic from 2D to 3D around that time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Error96 View Post
    I think the reputation of CD could be ruined permanently with the track they are on. As for TR yes it won't sell that well on Xbox one alone but when it comes out on other consoles should do fine. There is always going to be a market for TR games and Lara Croft.

    When it comes to TR and the Sega consoles the Saturn was weaker in power and the dreamcast was a flop so that is probably why TR didn't continue on those. I think Sega were too busy focused on savaging the transition of Sonic from 2D to 3D around that time.
    Regardless of the State of the Saturn, Tomb Raider was the best selling game on the System and the second Tomb Raider was in the works for it and rumored N64.

    Again, it's bad for gamers when a company pays so a multiplatform game doesn't come out for other systems.

  11. #36
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    I think it'll recover in time. It may just take a lot of time is all. But this one will definitely ALWAYS be known as: "the TR that pissed off the fanbase.". No matter how good of a game it is, that shadow's been cast. Crystal Dynamics, on the otherhand, could indeed be in jeopardy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by segamer View Post
    Regardless of the State of the Saturn, Tomb Raider was the best selling game on the System and the second Tomb Raider was in the works for it and rumored N64.
    Wasn't Tomb Raider like, the only game on Saturn?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    There will always be a future for TR.

    Unlike some other franchises (*cough* Duke Nukem *cough*) TR does not rely on being in any particular decade or even century in order to work as a concept. All it needs is unexplored places, and there will always be plenty of those.

    While the exclusivity deal will certainly damage Crystal's reputation (Fairly or not, as the decision may well have come from Square), and the way it was announced perhaps moreso (The official announcement making no mention of the exclusive being timed was very bad PR to say the least), Lara Croft will always find a way to carry on raiding tombs sooner or later.

    Defying the odds is what she does

    Maybe it will have a future for some but I for one will not purchase future installments and heres why.

    If it is part of an arching story where events of one impact or play a part of another installment if I am denied one installment I will just abandon the series as I can't stand incompleteness in my stories.

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by drkl0rd2000 View Post
    Maybe it will have a future for some but I for one will not purchase future installments and heres why.

    If it is part of an arching story where events of one impact or play a part of another installment if I am denied one installment I will just abandon the series as I can't stand incompleteness in my stories.
    There will be another reboot, sooner or later.

    If this bombs as badly as it currently threatens to, sooner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    [/thread]

    Exclusivity does not mean the end of a franchise. Bayonetta 2 is a Wii U exclusive, but that doesn't mean Bayonetta is a dying series.
    I'm just seeing this, but Bayonetta was close to being dead. The only reason it is exclusive to Wii U is because they were the only ones willing to fund it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motoleo View Post
    The series will never recover? Isn't this the same game that had ported what looked like a Wii version of Underworld to the PS2?
    Your point?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon S. Kennedy View Post
    Your point?
    None I guess. That's in the past.

    Today MS is giving TR the publicity it deserves. Preserving anticipation and building a bigger base. All of the other popular games can do it and Tomb Raider can too.

    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/gaming

    Microsoft wants everyone to know that the best games are on Xbox.
    Last edited by motoleo; 08-15-2014 at 10:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motoleo View Post
    None I guess. That's in the past.

    Today MS is giving TR the publicity it deserves. Preserving anticipation and building a bigger base. All of the other popular games can do it and Tomb Raider can too.

    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/gaming

    Microsoft wants everyone to know that the best games are on Xbox.
    Except Microsoft can't do that. This deal in no expands the Tomb Raider consumer base or the potential to grow. It does the exact opposite.

    The rest of your comment is console wars trolling.

  19. #44
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    The new information of 'spending money on developing the game' changes things a fair bit.

    Now, there is a real chance it may actually not come to PS4, or not for a long while at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiadaw View Post
    The new information of 'spending money on developing the game' changes things a fair bit.

    Now, there is a real chance it may actually not come to PS4, or not for a long while at least.
    Why would MS want to stick their oar in on actual game development? Its not in their interest to. All they want to do is shift boxes. In terms of DLC, promotion etc then they can influence that. All they want from TR is to increase the user base. While I find these words slightly strange I don't think they should be interpreted as they read.
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    It is without question that Tomb Raider and Lara will carry on for a very long time.
    It is worth pointing out that it is us, the loyal fanbase, that is the only constant and that the developers come and go. There were the 'Core Design' years and then the 'Crystal Dynamics' years. It might just take another changing of the guard to steer our Tomb Raider out of these uncharted waters (honk...see what I did there).

    The reboot was exceptionally good, but was quite far from the spirit of classic Tomb Raider. Hello, where were the tombs??? There were further missteps. For example, the shoehorned competitive multiplayer (with dedicated trophies). Then there has been this constant march of exclusivity towards the one platform (Xbox) that is the least favoured by the core Tomb Raider fanbase. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the fantastic Xbox brand, but EVERYONE knows that Tomb Raider's home is on PlayStation & PC and got it to where it is today!

    I would like to remind you all of the following that was included in Tomb Raider Anniversary. It is an extract from a 'note to the fans' written by Jason Botta (Creative Director):

    We strove hard to find the right balance of nostalgia and freshness and to create an experience that captured the sense of isolation so prevalent in the original. We hope that you're as excited as we are about what's in store for Lara and Tomb Raider in the next ten years. Happy gaming and thanks to you for a decade of loyalty and support!

    This chap still works at Crystal and it would be great to see what he thinks of the latest movements with the franchise and all the 'notes to the developers' appearing all over the various TR forums. It is normally assumed that loyalty (almost 20 years of it!!!) goes both ways!
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecstar70 View Post
    Why would MS want to stick their oar in on actual game development? Its not in their interest to. All they want to do is shift boxes. In terms of DLC, promotion etc then they can influence that. All they want from TR is to increase the user base. While I find these words slightly strange I don't think they should be interpreted as they read.
    Of course its their interest to do so. If they have an exclusive deal, obviously they wanted to game to be a good as possible. If it is critically acclaimed, it will improve sales quite a bit.

    It is however unusual, & what level is unclear. Could be nothing more than tech support, or just extra fundings to be able to polish areas that CD would otherwise unable to due to budget to manpower.

    We need more information on the level of funding's, & others before we can make better deduction, but the 'funding to develop" cannot be comforting to hear for people hoping the game will come earlier if at all to their platform of choice.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
    It is without question that Tomb Raider and Lara will carry on for a very long time.
    It is worth pointing out that it is us, the loyal fanbase, that is the only constant and that the developers come and go. There were the 'Core Design' years and then the 'Crystal Dynamics' years. It might just take another changing of the guard to steer our Tomb Raider out of these uncharted waters (honk...see what I did there).

    The reboot was exceptionally good, but was quite far from the spirit of classic Tomb Raider. Hello, where were the tombs??? There were further missteps. For example, the shoehorned competitive multiplayer (with dedicated trophies). Then there has been this constant march of exclusivity towards the one platform (Xbox) that is the least favoured by the core Tomb Raider fanbase. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the fantastic Xbox brand, but EVERYONE knows that Tomb Raider's home is on PlayStation & PC and got it to where it is today!

    I would like to remind you all of the following that was included in Tomb Raider Anniversary. It is an extract from a 'note to the fans' written by Jason Botta (Creative Director):

    We strove hard to find the right balance of nostalgia and freshness and to create an experience that captured the sense of isolation so prevalent in the original. We hope that you're as excited as we are about what's in store for Lara and Tomb Raider in the next ten years. Happy gaming and thanks to you for a decade of loyalty and support!

    This chap still works at Crystal and it would be great to see what he thinks of the latest movements with the franchise and all the 'notes to the developers' appearing all over the various TR forums. It is normally assumed that loyalty (almost 20 years of it!!!) goes both ways!
    As good as I find the reboot, I think this next game, is where the actual vision of the game be realized. I have a good feeling about this game (gameplay wise)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    Wasn't Tomb Raider like, the only game on Saturn?
    Hey I love my Saturn Panzer Dragoon, D, NiGHTS into Dreams, Clockwork Knight etc. Oh and TR of course! <3

    Also TR Chronicles did come out on the Dreamcast, not sure the history behind that but I know it did.

    I think it will probably always have a taint in the name now, but I hope that future iterations strive to correct that.

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    I feel bad for anyone that bought a Saturn or Dreamcast, & any Sonic games for the past 10 years.

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