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Thread: INSTINCT?

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    I keep hearing about how people hate the Instinct feature from Absolution. Keep in my mind, I didn't like Absolution and I love the old Hitman games, but I always thought that Instinct was a lot more realistic, as opposed to earlier games, because you have to scout the level before you found, say, an electrical box or a box of rat poison. Certain things about the Instinct were retarded, like how it was required to get by enemies unnoticed, or the trail of fire that gave away the enemies direction of travel. These were bull$h!t, and need to disappear from the next game. In earlier games, you have a map that tells you where everything is when you start. How is that realistic? I think the maps are always helpful just to give you a scope of how big the level is but it shouldn't be displaying points of interest, you should be able to figure it out. For the purposes of minding your surroundings I think Instinct is more realistic than the overview map. With Instinct you're aware of everything that's going on around you in your immediate vicinity, not every single fine detail for 4 or 5 square blocks. I would much rather have to go through the level and investigate and discover ways of advancing instead of being told "Go to point A, get this then go to point C and kill subject with it". The Instinct highlights objects of interest much like the old style map displayed them, so I don't see what the problem is. Plus, the Instinct was 3 dimensional, you could see someone coming down the stairs from another room, in Blood Money you had to play around with 2 or 3 different maps.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by S3R6i0; 01-20-2014 at 07:13 PM.

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    I think the aspect of seeing the enemy players with this odd red aura was reminiscent of Assassin's creed, and it definitely retracted from the 'Hitman' experience.

    You're right though, having everything visible on the map from the get-go does seem a little cheap. Maybe a system can be incorporated where once you find something, it gets marked down (sort of like how silent hill's maps update)

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    Quote Originally Posted by radioteque View Post
    I think the aspect of seeing the enemy players with this odd red aura was reminiscent of Assassin's creed, and it definitely retracted from the 'Hitman' experience.

    You're right though, having everything visible on the map from the get-go does seem a little cheap. Maybe a system can be incorporated where once you find something, it gets marked down (sort of like how silent hill's maps update)
    That's the thing, though, how do you find it? And what good would it be to have it displayed on the map after you've found it? I think the reason the old maps had points of interest is so you wouldn't go around trying to recruit everything to your arsenal, as a wrench might be a wrench or just part of the background. And if the Instinct is reminiscent of Assassins Creed than the old style maps are reminiscent of every other game out there like GTA. It's ridiculous. I think people just confused the Instinct with the linear style and the gameplay of Absolution. Plus, 47 always needs to be aware if someone is about to enter the room he's in so he could hide, I don't see what the difference is between a map and a thermal vision view mode. The Instinct is more realistic because you're aware of everything in your immediate vicinity, not everything for 4 or 5 square blocks.

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    I hated instincts, felt like a dumbed down COD style feature. I understand it but the real instincts and skill from 47 should derive from the player observing enemy movement patterns, observing the environment, etc. Not seeing people through walls.. He's Hitman, not a x-man.

    If his instincts are shown in the game it should be subtle and play into players instincts (reaction time, hearing etc) like a small audio ques etc. Otherwise the overview map was more realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derangedxzombie View Post
    I hated instincts, felt like a dumbed down COD style feature. I understand it but the real instincts and skill from 47 should derive from the player observing enemy movement patterns, observing the environment, etc. Not seeing people through walls.. He's Hitman, not a x-man.

    If his instincts are shown in the game it should be subtle and play into players instincts (reaction time, hearing etc) like a small audio ques etc. Otherwise the overview map was more realistic.
    But in the overview map, 47 can see everyone on all buildings of the floor, what is so hard to understand about this? The Instinct doesn't mean 47 is X-MEN it just represents his awareness of sound vibrations and people approaching his location. If your only argument is that you don't like the way it looks, regardless of functionality, that's a pretty weak argument. What if there were no Instinct and no overview map, because they're essentially the same thing. A real assassin doesn't have an in-depth map of all the floors of a building with built in movement patterns. That's why he's an assassin, he's a bad ass. You don't sneak up behind him, he sneaks up behind you. The game can't be 100% realistic. If it was it wouldn't work.

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    I actually never assumed the map was something 47 was holding, but something that he memorized, it was just accessible to the player so they could find their way around.

    Instincts mode wasn't very functional, though. It tied into a lot of other facets of the game in a way that didn't make sense. Having to use instincts to get past a guard is downright dumb. All he does is lower his head, why should that take instincts?

    I see what you're saying with how instincts allows the player to naturally see where guards are going as oppose to looking at a map and determining their movements, but i'm pretty sure all of the Hitman games didn't show the player guard/police/civilian positions on the harder difficulties. I was playing Blood Money last night and it only shows you the position of where your target is on Professional (as well as the 'key points'). But I never felt like it was telling me to go in a certain direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radioteque View Post
    I actually never assumed the map was something 47 was holding, but something that he memorized, it was just accessible to the player so they could find their way around.

    Instincts mode wasn't very functional, though. It tied into a lot of other facets of the game in a way that didn't make sense. Having to use instincts to get past a guard is downright dumb. All he does is lower his head, why should that take instincts?

    I see what you're saying with how instincts allows the player to naturally see where guards are going as oppose to looking at a map and determining their movements, but i'm pretty sure all of the Hitman games didn't show the player guard/police/civilian positions on the harder difficulties. I was playing Blood Money last night and it only shows you the position of where your target is on Professional (as well as the 'key points'). But I never felt like it was telling me to go in a certain direction.
    Okay, let me present my case again, yes the Instinct was not perfect. The Instinct energy needed to bypass enemies was dumb (I forgot about that) and anything else that was tied to it, except for, maybe, the point shooting, but I think Instinct and point shooting should be separate. But for the purposes of identifying special items and enemy movement patterns, I think Instinct was perfect. That fire trail that let you know the enemies direction needs to stop, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    I keep hearing about how people hate the Instinct feature from Absolution. Keep in my mind, I didn't like Absolution and I love the old Hitman games, but I always thought that Instinct was a lot more realistic, as opposed to earlier games, because you have to scout the level before you found, say, an electrical box or a box of rat poison. Certain things about the Instinct were retarded, like how it was required to get by enemies unnoticed, or the trail of fire that gave away the enemies direction of travel. These were bull$h!t, and need to disappear from the next game. In earlier games, you have a map that tells you where everything is when you start. How is that realistic? I think the maps are always helpful just to give you a scope of how big the level is but it shouldn't be displaying points of interest, you should be able to figure it out. For the purposes of minding your surroundings I think Instinct is more realistic than the overview map. With Instinct you're aware of everything that's going on around you in your immediate vicinity, not every single fine detail for 4 or 5 square blocks. I would much rather have to go through the level and investigate and discover ways of advancing instead of being told "Go to point A, get this then go to point C and kill subject with it". The Instinct highlights objects of interest much like the old style map displayed them, so I don't see what the problem is. Plus, the Instinct was 3 dimensional, you could see someone coming down the stairs from another room, in Blood Money you had to play around with 2 or 3 different maps.

    Any thoughts?
    Agreed.

    I found a new way to kill Lee Hong in Codename 47 only yesterday (I was feeling nostalgic) by using the environment.

    An overview map would have told me where it was with a point of intrest, and it would not nearly have been as much fun as finding it myself.

    It's one of the very few things of the Instinct feature I liked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    But in the overview map, 47 can see everyone on all buildings of the floor, what is so hard to understand about this? The Instinct doesn't mean 47 is X-MEN it just represents his awareness of sound vibrations and people approaching his location. If your only argument is that you don't like the way it looks, regardless of functionality, that's a pretty weak argument. What if there were no Instinct and no overview map, because they're essentially the same thing. A real assassin doesn't have an in-depth map of all the floors of a building with built in movement patterns. That's why he's an assassin, he's a bad ass. You don't sneak up behind him, he sneaks up behind you. The game can't be 100% realistic. If it was it wouldn't work.
    It's not the same thing though, it's less realistic and makes the game easier. It is like cheating almost . If the people etc were represented in a different way and gave less away to the player because it's his awareness and heightened skill, then it would be harder and more realistic. It would be more than just how it looks, but how it works. Also the map does show everyone on all floors, but the key is you are left vulnerable because it's not in real time like instincts, it required precise timing. Is also felt more realistic because it's probably viewed on a small PDA type device which being 47 and working with a high tech agency like ICA he'd probably have access to. I would like instincts, but maybe instead if it was a set of skills you can purchase that actually heighten his senses? Like louder hearing, improved eye sight in the dark, quiet sneaking, these would make you able to sneak on people like a realistic pro (:

    The only time I can accept x-ray vision is, perfect dark on the N64 with the Maians powerful gun, the Farsight lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derangedxzombie View Post
    Also the map does show everyone on all floors, but the key is you are left vulnerable because it's not in real time like instincts, it required precise timing.
    Uh, noooo? Both the overview map and Instincts were in real time, hence the movement of enemies. The only difference between Instinct and the map is that one is 3 dimensional and the other is top down, both scenarios mean someone can walk up on you. Instinct had the advantage of seeing enemies above or below you without having to cycle between 3 or 4 maps. In some cases, if an enemy is on the roof, you have to cycle past all the floors of the building your in and other maps like other buildings before you opened the one labeled "Outside". That was way more confusing and cumbersome.

    Don't get me wrong, there are 2 things I hated about Instinct; one being that you needed to have your bar full to walk by guards, the other was how there was a fire trail that showed where the enemy was going. If they removed these 2 things I would have no problem. But just using Instinct to see enemies and points of interests, what's wrong with that?

    If they really wanted to be realistic, there would be no overview map, no location of enemies, no thermal vision and any points of interests or special items would be flashy or shiny like Resident Evil. But in order for that to work they would need to remove the background music Hitman is famous for. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to hear footsteps.

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    What I mean is though they are both real time, with instincts you can still move and act whilst seeing enemies etc, but in overview map you couldn't move or anything unless you exited, I think I liked that restriction, it felt more tense. Especially looking at it while lock picking a door and seeing some draw closer and closer. I agree the fire trail and meter were annoying, game breaking even (fire trail) unless thermal goggles, I wouldn't mind if most things were moved and objects having a glint to show they're interactive sounds great. In older Hitman there wasn't much music until you were sneaking and ambient music would play when people are near, or especially killing someone. I liked the Hitman 2 music (epic) but I guess otherwise they could keep both instincts and overview map if both had restrictions like no fire etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derangedxzombie View Post
    What I mean is though they are both real time, with instincts you can still move and act whilst seeing enemies etc, but in overview map you couldn't move or anything unless you exited, I think I liked that restriction, it felt more tense. Especially looking at it while lock picking a door and seeing some draw closer and closer. I agree the fire trail and meter were annoying, game breaking even (fire trail) unless thermal goggles, I wouldn't mind if most things were moved and objects having a glint to show they're interactive sounds great. In older Hitman there wasn't much music until you were sneaking and ambient music would play when people are near, or especially killing someone. I liked the Hitman 2 music (epic) but I guess otherwise they could keep both instincts and overview map if both had restrictions like no fire etc?
    Yeah, you kinda have a point. The overview map was more restrictive and Instinct is easier. That's what made the old games fun. I just hated having to cycle between 3 or 4 maps to see if anyone was entering the building. Maybe they could create an easier system for the map. And the points of interest, I would rather look for them then being told where to go.

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    The seeing through walls needs to go. The hints I can take when it comes to lower difficulty, and the holding down button to hide you face I can also understand. But no xray ability.

    I liked the old way with points of interest on map much more. And for realism I assume he either cased the place out before hand or got intel from ICA to know where the points of interests where.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikom View Post
    The seeing through walls needs to go. The hints I can take when it comes to lower difficulty, and the holding down button to hide you face I can also understand. But no xray ability.

    I liked the old way with points of interest on map much more. And for realism I assume he either cased the place out before hand or got intel from ICA to know where the points of interests where.
    Some levels are actually parties and special events, so, no, 47 does not case out his target locations. Also, just because there's a knife somewhere one day doesn't mean it will be there again tomorrow. I like the idea better that 47 is spontaneous . There is no difference between the map and the Instinct. You're just being a baby.

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    To make it better for me that is what I imagined, but obviously it's a game and the true reasons why it's there is to help players. I also didnt say it was any difference between instinct and the map, did I? I simply said I liked the old way with the map better. For reasons already put forth earlier in the thread. But the seeing through walls where fire on the ground and people come up in different shades of color was immersion breaking for me and more importantly not as fun as having an overview of the place to plan a strategy.

    The reason with my post wasn't necessarily to rag on instinct, but to say that all of it doesn't have to go. You can have a happy medium between the two. Still the map needs to come back, with or withour instinct.
    Last edited by mikom; 02-05-2014 at 12:57 AM.

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    i think instinct hit on an important piece of 47's abilities

    the problem is that instinct does a terrible job of expressing it

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    How would you like to see it expressed?

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    it depends duudee...

    really, i think 47 needs negotiating skills

    theres been a few times where im just like if 47 were to say something he could get out of this sticky situation... i know thats kind of hard to adapt in-game but still

    i think the best option is to maybe gauge 47's walk speed... like maybe slower is better ... or quicker is better... in different scenarios

    or maybe make it like a 'act natural' button and maybe a 'convince' button or a 'bluff' button, if you get somehting wrong maybe you could try again in a different disguise... the correct answer would be different for different disguises correlating to who your convincing... ya' know?!

    idk... i feel like just tipping your hat is not always the answer... sometimes its bluffing or hiding or acting natural, if you get what im trying to say...

    oh yea... uhh instinctively i dont think anyone can see through walls and or walk paths... maybe through the use of a heat detector sure... but if we have our map this go around... we don't need to be able to see through walls... unless we can shoot through them... cause that would be fun haha

    edit:

    there could be like a 'bluff', 'use intelligence (available if there is info found/collected/given at the start of level)', 'threaten', or 'ignore'

    or you could always have a different option for different people... for guards and disguises( some disguises may have trump cards)

    the obvious controls would be d-pad ...
    Last edited by mcescher1; 02-04-2014 at 02:50 PM.

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    I like the negotiation idea. I wrote something similar in some thread around here. Where if you went into an hostile area or someone got too suspicious about your disguise, you could try to bluff or excuse yourself. It should still have some consequence and not just let you off scot free though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikom View Post
    I like the negotiation idea. I wrote something similar in some thread around here. Where if you went into an hostile area or someone got too suspicious about your disguise, you could try to bluff or excuse yourself. It should still have some consequence and not just let you off scot free though.
    yeaa ... like a here, let me show you something.. in this closet!!! easy kill

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    The Instinct is more realistic because you're aware of everything in your immediate vicinity, not everything for 4 or 5 square blocks.
    Please, let's not talk to much about realism in a video game. You can easily claim that the map is being continually updated by a special satellite that can read heat signatures through walls. Simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    But in the overview map, 47 can see everyone on all buildings of the floor, what is so hard to understand about this? The Instinct doesn't mean 47 is X-MEN it just represents his awareness of sound vibrations and people approaching his location. If your only argument is that you don't like the way it looks, regardless of functionality, that's a pretty weak argument.
    As someone else pointed out, the extra challenge of being vulnerable WHILE looking at the map made the game exponentially more tense. It FORCED you to plan your movements.

    The game feels more like Splinter Cell when you are allowed to see through walls (think Conviction with the Sonar goggles). It takes the fun out of the game as you are more inclined to just sneak while using instinct all the time. I guarantee you that Instinct replaced the map to appease the COD/Assassin's Creed youth that are destroying gaming. No map = no strategy = no Hitman = not getting my $$$

    Yes. I am serious. The map must come back!

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    i agree with the shepherd... the map must come back and instinct does take some fun out of the game

    i realized something while reading this as well... with instinct... youuuu kind of know whats around every corner...

    that takes a lot of the suspense out of the game and makes it justtt boring

    the map is totally the way to go - it adds suspense, strategy, and wanted difficulty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard View Post
    Please, let's not talk to much about realism in a video game. You can easily claim that the map is being continually updated by a special satellite that can read heat signatures through walls. Simple.



    As someone else pointed out, the extra challenge of being vulnerable WHILE looking at the map made the game exponentially more tense. It FORCED you to plan your movements.

    The game feels more like Splinter Cell when you are allowed to see through walls (think Conviction with the Sonar goggles). It takes the fun out of the game as you are more inclined to just sneak while using instinct all the time. I guarantee you that Instinct replaced the map to appease the COD/Assassin's Creed youth that are destroying gaming. No map = no strategy = no Hitman = not getting my $$$

    Yes. I am serious. The map must come back!
    ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT! You have a point about the vulnerability part, but really the difference is very subtle and only adds a little bit of difficulty. And what you said about a satellite hovering over 47, the whole idea behind the world's most effective assassin is that he is just that, he moves like a cat and strikes like a snake. You cannot sneak up behind him and he's spontaneous and lives on his wits. That being said, the Instinct could be alleviated by having less hiding spots or making the consequences for killing people more severe, like having blood splatter on the wall or the body leaving a trail that alerts suspicion. Or for every dead/missing body the environment becomes more tense. That way, an approaching enemy will actually add difficulty. What if "seeing through walls" represented 47's hearing, and the way you sense enemies approaching depends on how noisy it is (If there's a parade outside you won't be able to see someone coming in, but if it's quiet outside and the NPC is walking over dead leaves the Instinct will pick him up)?. I understand what you're saying, I just think the map is too 2003.
    Last edited by S3R6i0; 02-05-2014 at 03:21 AM.

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    They did it right in BM. All that other stuff you can get in other games - Hitman needs to stay with what makes Hitman unique. The thing with the blood trails and enviorment becoming more tense after bodies were found they had in BM, but they took a lot of that away in Absolution. When I play Hitman I want to feel like Hitman as much as possible. And as long as Hitman dont have xray vision, I dont want that in the game. If Hitman has superior hearing, beef up the audio and let us hear the target walking on dead leaves.

    You seem to take this argument very personal. Nobody is ragging on you, but the fact remains that the reasons why the Hitman franchise has been so successful is because they gave an experience other games didn't, and by going away from that they will lose what makes them good. There's plenty of other games that does what you seem to want, you can play them instead. The map is needed and taking it away severely detracts from the experience. I want to be able to plan my hits, because that's what a hitman does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikom View Post
    They did it right in BM. All that other stuff you can get in other games - Hitman needs to stay with what makes Hitman unique. The thing with the blood trails and enviorment becoming more tense after bodies were found they had in BM, but they took a lot of that away in Absolution. When I play Hitman I want to feel like Hitman as much as possible. And as long as Hitman dont have xray vision, I dont want that in the game. If Hitman has superior hearing, beef up the audio and let us hear the target walking on dead leaves.

    You seem to take this argument very personal. Nobody is ragging on you, but the fact remains that the reasons why the Hitman franchise has been so successful is because they gave an experience other games didn't, and by going away from that they will lose what makes them good. There's plenty of other games that does what you seem to want, you can play them instead. The map is needed and taking it away severely detracts from the experience. I want to be able to plan my hits, because that's what a hitman does.
    There were no blood trails in Blood Money, or if there were they didn't affect the gameplay, which is what I was saying. And you don't need a map to plan a hit. Anyway, we're not gonna agree. You have some valid points, as I have mine. Let's just hope the game is fun when they release it.

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