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Thread: INSTINCT?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    People see a top down satellite view of their surroundings in real life? Are you serious?
    I'm almost certain the technology exists...I read somewhere that predator drones use thermal imaging to see how many people are in a building/shelter.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard View Post
    I'm almost certain the technology exists...I read somewhere that predator drones use thermal imaging to see how many people are in a building/shelter.
    So the ICA has thermal imaging of every building 47 is in and they're coaching him along? I guess from that perspective I can't really argue. But I was under the impression that 47 was some hyper bad ass who sensed his way through every predicament with a keen assassin's finesse. Guess not. I still think Instinct is better for vertical NPC's (floors above and below). I still prefer the challenge and mystery of exploring and working problems out as I progress, not running up to the 8th floor because my target just stepped into his office. But if these are the circumstances at the very least have a 3D map like in The Dark Knight.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent47ICA View Post
    Man there shouldn't be 100 % of realism .. As long as we know that there is something called map .. That exists in real life ... (Instinct is no such thing ) so how the map feature is implemented in the game doesn't matter.. And for instinct .. I said that it should stay
    .. But the map should come back

    If you don't like a map .. Then don't use it .. Simple .. Use instincts instead ...
    Instinct is an English word, it means having an intuition. First you say it shouldn't be 100% realism, and in your next sentence you want a map, that exists in real life. Okay. Anyway, this post is 8 months old. Someone unearthed it again and I'm not gonna argue about it anymore.

  4. #104
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    there is nothing wrong with a map...

    first off, the only time you see every enemy is when you play on the easier settings.

    second, it is not hard to receive floor plans of any given building or area... and to just reference the floor plans as a map is not hard in fact it makes a whole lot of sense.

    third, it isn't hard to believe that 47 would have a good idea of where his taget is located on the map or other points of interest.. either due to inside information, people in ica who have scoped out the area, or a tracer/tracker of some sort

    also, let me get this straight.. your against having a map back again... but you are for having a 3D map???? what kind of paint did you eat today?? " a maps too much it doesn't make sense, lets have a 3D map"

    wow

  5. #105
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    First cause of implementation the instinct and (what brings it) "3d maps" was isolation 47 from ICA. 47 could no longer receive satellite maps from Agency, so he had to "concentrate more". In my opinion there is no reason to implement instinct again, since Agency will be helping 47.

    But i think IOI will try introduce it again, because returning to old ideas (i mean playing Hitman without any instinct) may be not good in gaming branch and be reclaimed as "regress".

    I advise IOI to reduce instinct-like thing to minimum in H6. I mean maybe it should be used only to trick guards? I don't want any thermal vision, like in some **ckin Predator.

  6. #106
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    I think Instinct is a good idea for beginner and keeping map for old players. But instinct should be use ONLY to see guards and we should be able to configure it like in HA.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcescher1 View Post
    there is nothing wrong with a map...

    first off, the only time you see every enemy is when you play on the easier settings.

    second, it is not hard to receive floor plans of any given building or area... and to just reference the floor plans as a map is not hard in fact it makes a whole lot of sense.

    third, it isn't hard to believe that 47 would have a good idea of where his taget is located on the map or other points of interest.. either due to inside information, people in ica who have scoped out the area, or a tracer/tracker of some sort

    also, let me get this straight.. your against having a map back again... but you are for having a 3D map???? what kind of paint did you eat today?? " a maps too much it doesn't make sense, lets have a 3D map"

    wow
    Because a 3D map helps you know if someone is coming down the stairs. GET IT NOW? Or should I draw it in crayon?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm24 View Post
    I think Instinct is a good idea for beginner and keeping map for old players. But instinct should be use ONLY to see guards and we should be able to configure it like in HA.
    Instinct is completely pointless on purist difficulty level (except this tricking guards thing, what is questionable anyway).

    After seeing first trailer of Absolution i thought seeing guards' paths could be useful if their routes would be random, so amount of attempts before achieving a SA rating would be lower (what possibly would be better instead of learning paths). But after playing some time i realized that guards' tracks aren't random (on the contrary - scripted as hell). What for was instinct then? For casuals only - this is the answer. If H6 will have the same system - screw it.
    Last edited by kewlak; 06-09-2014 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    Because a 3D map helps you know if someone is coming down the stairs. GET IT NOW? Or should I draw it in crayon?
    oh yea that totally makes sense. . .

    3D maps are suuuchhhh a good idea . . .

    why not have all 3?? i mean who cares right?? we should see through walls... see AI's paths, have the map and see everyone and everything, and 3D maps... SO WE CAN SEE PEOPLE COMING DOWN STAIRS!!

    makes complete sense, please tell us more amazing ideas Spermio or whatever your name is

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcescher1 View Post
    oh yea that totally makes sense. . .

    3D maps are suuuchhhh a good idea . . .

    why not have all 3?? i mean who cares right?? we should see through walls... see AI's paths, have the map and see everyone and everything, and 3D maps... SO WE CAN SEE PEOPLE COMING DOWN STAIRS!!

    makes complete sense, please tell us more amazing ideas Spermio or whatever your name is
    I'm done with this conversation.

  11. #111
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    LOL

  12. #112
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    I see most people in this thread never played Blood Money on the hardest level. The only thing you saw on the map on the hardest difficulty was the target. And blood on the floor caused people to become suspicious. Back to the OP, instinct was an ok replacement for the map IMO, it was just used too heavily. I should not have to use instinct to convince everyone else in the same costume my authenticity.

    The linear levels and such is a whole other bag of worms I'll avoid for now.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    Can you just explain to me how seeing enemies through walls is any different than seeing enemies 2 floors above you in another building through the overview map? I agree that every item shouldn't be highlighted. In fact, I think that everything in the level that isn't nailed to the floor, 47 should be able to pick up. The problem I had with Blood Money and earlier titles is that you never knew when an item could be interacted with. You could explore the entire level trying to interact with everything from the stove to the radio and stumble upon maybe 1 or 2 discoveries. Not to mention, that pretty much every important item was displayed on the map with an exclamation mark. The task of looking under every last stone becomes tedious. I think both systems were flawed when it came to showing items of interest. As for the NPC's, I think Instinct is the best method. Something about going to a map killed the immersion for me.
    On the explanation: I think we're arguing two sides of the same coin, both aiming for immersion. You think having a map that shows enemy movements is intrusive and cheap, whereas I and I think most others on here believe instinct is intrusive and cheap.

    The map system is the best choice by far IMO, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be improved. I wouldn't be against having a static map that more resembles pictures of floor plans of the level, and/or surveillance pictures, combined with greater intel about who does what and where. For instance you get intel that the target doesn't often leave his chamber, but often visits the west wind of the manor to pay respect to his late wife's urn. Or that the second floor has a chamber maid that often flirts with the security staff, so you might be inclined to dress as security to swipe her master key, or something like that. That way you'd have a map that is static and doesn't have enemy movements on it, but might have areas circled in red pen that say "something was seen here on surveillance" or something to that effect for some but not all points of interest, and you wouldn't be able to see where the target is on the map, but you would have a general idea of where they roam. And maybe they don't stick to the intel every time, meaning a more varied experience.

    I wouldn't be against something more realistic like that, but if they go for either the map or instinct, the map is less intrusive and wins my vote every day of the week. Sorry for the long post.

    I loved the old map, and yes seeing enemy movements on floors above was not realistic, but you could always play on the more difficult settings to avoid that, which I often did. Instinct to me is a poor game mechanic that a lot of games use, but shouldn't. I think it worked with The Last Of Us, especially with the infected, but with games like Assassins Creed, it was the same with Hitman, I would go out of my way to avoid accidentally highlighting enemies through walls. If we're talking about immersion, and you're in a beautiful simulated world acting the part, the last thing you want to see is someone glowing through walls.

    Before COD was a big thing, people used to use wall hacks in multiplayer games to cheat, it was dirty, cheap, and it looks exactly like Instinct or Eagle Vision from Assassins Creed. I believe it is implemented to make the game easier and more accessible to people who may have never played a Hitman game before, but if that's the case, it should at very least be optional.

    Hitman games encourage skill and cunning, the stealthier and cleverer you are, the better you will do, and more importantly, it will be far more fun and rewarding. Instinct dumbs down that experience.

    Also, I haven't quoted it but somewhere you said that not knowing what is interactive or not is annoying, because you will miss things - but that is a good thing. It encourages replay-ability. What is the fun of going through a mission, holding down a button and seeing everything you can do and use in one sitting? I'll grant you that the old map system had exclamation marks on the map, but I never visited every single one in the first sitting, whereas if you hold down instinct and move through, you're going to notice everything straight away, and there'll be no incentive to play it again, or interest in doing so.

    Still, these features aren't my biggest gripe with the Instinct system. You can turn off all those settings like seeing through walls and the trail line, and highlighting. I turned them all off before I even started the mission. They're optional, which was good. It was annoying however that the entire system wasn't optional. In a hitman game, I shouldn't have to hold down a consumable button just to walk past in a disguise - this is Hitman! Hiding in plain sight is half the damn fun!

    Obviously nobody agrees on everything, but I would argue that the features you want for Hitman apply more to an action game, and I just don't think that does justice to this franchise, which is at its best when it's a hide in plain sight stealth.

  14. #114
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    (sighs)

    I didn't really want to continue this conversation, particularly because I see that I'm in the minority. Also, because I was very specific about what I was talking about. I said remove the enemy trails (I had a major gripe with that) and detach the disguise system from Instinct. Also, I was never under the impression that 47 was being coached along via an ear piece while playing pre-Absolution Hitman. I thought the map and NPC markers were just part of the game play design. In that context, I guess it makes sense. But when I play old school Hitman I get the feeling that I'm playing a digital board game, where every enemy, janitor and nurse are following a pre-determined path in a loop and I have to figure out the puzzle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adebisi View Post
    I loved the old map, and yes seeing enemy movements on floors above was not realistic, but you could always play on the more difficult settings to avoid that, which I often did. Instinct to me is a poor game mechanic that a lot of games use, but shouldn't. I think it worked with The Last Of Us, especially with the infected, but with games like Assassins Creed, it was the same with Hitman, I would go out of my way to avoid accidentally highlighting enemies through walls. If we're talking about immersion, and you're in a beautiful simulated world acting the part, the last thing you want to see is someone glowing through walls.
    Here's my problem with using the map on difficult setting. Hitman does not have a good track record when it comes to sound effects; footsteps and cracking leaves when somebody walks, hearing people talking through walls, etc. If you have nothing displaying on the map, that kinda puts you at a disadvantage, but in an unrealistic way, which I did not like. That's kinda where a system like Instinct brings balance. You can see an enemy walking through a wall because that serves as 47's ears, since there are no sound effects and not every one has an impressive surround sound system connected to their TV, Instinct acts as an aural aid that allows you to know if there's someone in the next room, without showing you what's 20 feet ahead. I would say limit Instinct to only NPC's that are talking, making noise or on the move, and only allow you to activate Instinct while you're idle. I don't know if you played that overpriced demo, Metal Gear Solid V, but they got it down right. The game has an Instinct system to detect enemies, only, you must first locate an enemy and "mark" him, and he shows up in Instinct forever. The challenge is that enemies that you haven't marked do not show up and they can spot you, so you have to move extra careful and this promotes exploration. I wouldn't mind if they removed enemy detection completely and just let us play the game by ear, I made a post earlier about realistic sound effects.

    If they do bring back the map, at the very least bring back something more visually appealing. Those old Hitman maps looked awful.

  15. #115
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    My idea.

    Why have an Instinct system which is horribly unrealistic? Instead, try to use Instinct to realistically portray the way a super-assassin would look at the world around him. Set dressings and the world around him grey out; they're not much use. Civilians could be outlined in slightly darker grey, but they don't need any special attention. The target himself would obviously be outlined, along with enemies. No, not all enemies - just ones who are visibly armed or likely to raise the alarm. You could have 47 believing that someone is a civilian - until they whip out a concealed pistol. No paths of fire - that's horrible. The idea of 'footstep sounds' being heard is a good one.

    The Instinct 'meter' needs to go though, as does linking it to disguises. You can't use up your intuition in real life!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkkiller View Post
    My idea.

    Why have an Instinct system which is horribly unrealistic? Instead, try to use Instinct to realistically portray the way a super-assassin would look at the world around him. Set dressings and the world around him grey out; they're not much use. Civilians could be outlined in slightly darker grey, but they don't need any special attention. The target himself would obviously be outlined, along with enemies. No, not all enemies - just ones who are visibly armed or likely to raise the alarm. You could have 47 believing that someone is a civilian - until they whip out a concealed pistol. No paths of fire - that's horrible. The idea of 'footstep sounds' being heard is a good one.

    The Instinct 'meter' needs to go though, as does linking it to disguises. You can't use up your intuition in real life!
    Whether it's Instinct or the map I don't like the idea of enemies and civilians marked with different colors. I thought the whole point about Hitman is exploration, an open world sandbox and all that. Replayability will be promoted more if you have to spend time becoming familiar with a level. There's not much challenge if you know there's a guard around the corner.

  17. #117
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    thats exactly why instinct needs to go and the map needs to come back

    it also allows for more strategics - planning your path to the target - evading threats and utilizing helpful points on the map

  18. #118
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    Yes. Nevermind about instinct. If 47 works for ICA, map's presence is just obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcescher1 View Post
    thats exactly why instinct needs to go and the map needs to come back

    it also allows for more strategics - planning your path to the target - evading threats and utilizing helpful points on the map
    Most of you play on difficult so what does it matter?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by kewlak View Post
    Yes. Nevermind about instinct. If 47 works for ICA, map's presence is just obvious.
    I never really thought about it that way. In Absolution 47 was solo, he quit the agency. In that sense the Instinct makes sense. If they bring back the map, there should be an option or difficulty mode where all the NPC's are the same color, in some instances, 47 can have a contact in a mission that gives him Intel, and make certain NPC's stand out based on the information. If the ICA has thermal imaging of the buildings he's in they shouldn't be able to discriminate, I'm not very knowledgable about all that, but at least have an option to make the NPC's more generic. They should also include advanced sound effects for those on Expert difficulty. Also, the map should memorize the amount of zoom you had on last time. There's just too much button pressing going on.

    Most of you play on Hard anyway so while are you all so horny about the map?
    Last edited by S3R6i0; 06-13-2014 at 06:37 PM.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    If the ICA has thermal imaging of the buildings he's in they shouldn't be able to discriminate
    This is a good idea that should be implemented. Could be an upgrade 47 has to purchase that lets him know who is armed/unarmed. This could be explained by having higher resolution thermal imaging that can distinguish if a firearm is being openly carried.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard View Post
    This is a good idea that should be implemented. Could be an upgrade 47 has to purchase that lets him know who is armed/unarmed. This could be explained by having higher resolution thermal imaging that can distinguish if a firearm is being openly carried.
    Thermal imaging works only with body heat, I'm pretty sure, clothing and accessories should be null and void. I think it should go something like this: EASY = traditional NPC display. NORMAL = NPC's are the same color, etc.

  23. #123
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    this "thermal imaging" you are talking about is instinct.

    you also keep talking about seeing the NPC's on the map...

    when playing on hard you don't even see the enemies... all you see is the target and the layout of the map, and exclamation points for points of interest.

    you don't want the enemies to be colored yet you are ok with "thermal imaging"...

    i just don't get your thought processes here...

    i really feel like instinct dumb's down the game, decreases strategy and skill needed to complete levels, adds an unnecessary and almost ridiculous element.

    we've discussed this topic to death in many other threads with many solutions and possible alternatives

    please go over the old threads and try to understand what the best option is

  24. #124
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    Instinct was meant to replace some features of the classic map, like showing enemies and targets moving about, while being opened at any point of time. Of course, I don't think it was implemented particularly well, and the fact that you needed it for some disguises detracted from its multiple uses more.

    I'd honestly prefer if they use rough maps on the highest difficulties, and some form of X ray vision/ Instinct on the lower difficulties, with a satellite map like the old games.

    A map like this on the highest difficulty, with some points of interest marked would be good:


  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcescher1 View Post
    this "thermal imaging" you are talking about is instinct.

    you also keep talking about seeing the NPC's on the map...

    when playing on hard you don't even see the enemies... all you see is the target and the layout of the map, and exclamation points for points of interest.

    you don't want the enemies to be colored yet you are ok with "thermal imaging"...

    i just don't get your thought processes here...

    i really feel like instinct dumb's down the game, decreases strategy and skill needed to complete levels, adds an unnecessary and almost ridiculous element.

    we've discussed this topic to death in many other threads with many solutions and possible alternatives

    please go over the old threads and try to understand what the best option is
    We're talking about the thermal imaging the ICA supposedly uses to bring you guys the map. That's the argument you guys use in defense of the map and realism, that the ICA has thermal imaging of the buildings 47 is in and they feed him information. I'm sorry that you're just now realizing that Instinct and the map are pretty much the same thing.

    Now you're saying that Instinct dumbs down the game and decreases strategy and skill. In another post you said the map allows you to plan and strategize better. Let's be truthful, they're both forms of cheating. I don't see how viewing a top down map of with every person detailed is any more challenging. If it's a preference that's one thing but to say that Instinct dumbs down the game when the map doesn't is ridiculous.

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