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Thread: INSTINCT?

  1. #26
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    There were bloodtrails in BM and they did affect the gameplay. If you killed someone and dragged them into a room and a guard saw the bloodtrail he would follow it to the body. They even talked about the bloodtrails if they saw any.

    http://www.ign.com/wikis/hitman-bloo...y/May_30_2006#

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikom View Post
    There were bloodtrails in BM and they did affect the gameplay. If you killed someone and dragged them into a room and a guard saw the bloodtrail he would follow it to the body. They even talked about the bloodtrails if they saw any.

    http://www.ign.com/wikis/hitman-bloo...y/May_30_2006#
    Oh. Okay. I had no idea.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    You cannot sneak up behind him and he's spontaneous and lives on his wits. That being said, the Instinct could be alleviated by having less hiding spots or making the consequences for killing people more severe, like having blood splatter on the wall or the body leaving a trail that alerts suspicion. Or for every dead/missing body the environment becomes more tense. That way, an approaching enemy will actually add difficulty. What if "seeing through walls" represented 47's hearing, and the way you sense enemies approaching depends on how noisy it is I understand what you're saying, I just think the map is too 2003.
    You're missing the point. Making consequences for killing is one of the reasons Absolution sucks. Doing that will force you to sneak, and that is Splinter Cell's realm. Listen, I get what you are getting at, you like REALLY stealthy games, and so do I. But Hitman is not about being REALLY stealthy; it's about blending in in plain sight. That's the point of disguises. Letting you see through walls destroys the need for disguises! I'll just avoid people all together and not bother; that's what I did in absolution and it wasn't fun at all. It wouldn't matter if the enemies became aware that their comrades are missing, because you could still avoid their paths!

    If you want to play stealth where it is actually fun, play the old school Splinter Cell games. Avoiding getting spotted is the point of that series (before that idiot Maxime Beland came on board).

    I think you are getting to into the whole "genetically engineered assassin" thing. Nobody cares that he has superior strength and all that jazz --- the defining feature of 47 is that he ALWAYS is calm which comes off as cold to everybody (...because he is). It doesn't matter what Instinct represents; I don't even care if 47 DOES actually have x-ray vision, the fact of the matter is that it breaks the game.

    The only way I see Instinct as being useful is if it gives 47 the ability to slow down time or something similar to aid in aiming ---i.e. bulletime or dead eye (from Rockstar games) --- it's very hard to aim in 3rd person. That way you can keep the whole "experienced assassin" schtick while actually providing functionality.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard View Post
    You're missing the point. Making consequences for killing is one of the reasons Absolution sucks.
    Killing and hiding bodies in Absolution was easy. I think you're confused with the disguise system.

  5. #30
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    I full heartedly agree with every point Adrian put forth. Taking a disguise and going around like a sheep in wolf clothing with the people around you completely oblivious to what is going to happen is one of the things you dont often get in other games. That's why I really want them to go back to what makes them uniquie and expand on that. Sneaking games where you crawl around and straight up avoid enemies already exists, so there's no need for Hitman to focus on that.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    Killing and hiding bodies in Absolution was easy. I think you're confused with the disguise system.
    No, I'm also taking aim at the incredibly idiotic point system. You should't be penalized for knocking out 1 person. As I recall, in BM, you could still achieve Silent Assassin rating even if you knocked out 2 people, fired 1 bullet, and of course, killed the targets (I may be a little off on the numbers).

    Knowing that you have some space to still get SA rating makes the game much more fun. In Absolution, I was forced not to touch anybody if I wanted a high score.

    There shouldn't be degrees of Silent Assassin; if you get the rating, you get. I.e. it shouldn't be possible for you to get a higher Silent Assassin rating than me.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard View Post
    No, I'm also taking aim at the incredibly idiotic point system. You should't be penalized for knocking out 1 person. As I recall, in BM, you could still achieve Silent Assassin rating even if you knocked out 2 people, fired 1 bullet, and of course, killed the targets (I may be a little off on the numbers).

    Knowing that you have some space to still get SA rating makes the game much more fun. In Absolution, I was forced not to touch anybody if I wanted a high score.

    There shouldn't be degrees of Silent Assassin; if you get the rating, you get. I.e. it shouldn't be possible for you to get a higher Silent Assassin rating than me.
    I always viewed the Silent Assassin rating as a trophy or achievement rather than as an official component of the gameplay. The point system displaying on the hud was annoying but able to overlook. The Silent Assassin rating is an achievement, it doesn't mean you absolutely have to play it that way. I usually just play through the first time however I feel, then I go back and get all the other stuff. I like to argue that you shouldn't be penalized for killing 1 or 2 innocent people. As long as the target is dead.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    I always viewed the Silent Assassin rating as a trophy or achievement rather than as an official component of the gameplay. The point system displaying on the hud was annoying but able to overlook. The Silent Assassin rating is an achievement, it doesn't mean you absolutely have to play it that way. I usually just play through the first time however I feel, then I go back and get all the other stuff. I like to argue that you shouldn't be penalized for killing 1 or 2 innocent people. As long as the target is dead.
    Really? I always thought that Silent Assassin is the official way to complete a level. It means you've done what 47 would've done, not leave any evidence or witnesses. It just pissed me off that sneaking around and avoiding everybody resulted in a higher point total than actually using disguises and stuff.

  9. #34
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    if you truly want to do what 47 would have done.. you get the 'ghost' rating..

    personally i usually always take the first time i do a mission pretty seriously... and try to have a little bit of fun with it, then for replay, im usually looking to explore a little more, try different approaches - find interesting ways to accomplish missions - and sometimes seeing how many people i can kill and still make it out alive

    i think most ratings should give you the same amount of 'points'... except for the extra challenging ones like 'ghost', 'marksman', or 'explosive expert' or maybe even 'creative killer'

    i would also like to see extra points given for a 'accidents happen'... i think sometimes its hardest to make things seem like an 'accident' ... and is usually the best way to get away with something

    there is also something to be said for when you create a massacre... and get out alive.. screw the witnesses .. your 47.. a clone with the agency to help you kill/bribe police witnesses media and anyone else helping with the investigation

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard View Post
    Really? I always thought that Silent Assassin is the official way to complete a level. It means you've done what 47 would've done, not leave any evidence or witnesses. It just pissed me off that sneaking around and avoiding everybody resulted in a higher point total than actually using disguises and stuff.
    Exactly, stricter standards doesn't equate always fun. I personally enjoyed disposing the random security guard or janitor. I've never actually strived to get the top rating. Maybe your right.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    Exactly, stricter standards doesn't equate always fun. I personally enjoyed disposing the random security guard or janitor. I've never actually strived to get the top rating. Maybe your right.
    i remember in 'murder of the crows' and in 'you better watch out' killing everyyyyyyyyyyyyonnnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeee... i think i also did this in 'heaven and hell'

    strap up with the m4 upgraded with the drum

    at first usually you have to quietly kill people ... but then once your cover is blown just start layyyyyin'em'downnnn lol...

    starting off with a few remote mines usually helps too

    big crowds are the most fun to watch

  12. #37
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    I think instinct should be completely removed, at the very least removed for the disguise system. I absolutely hate how it works in absolution. It's almost as if 47 has some sort of super hero power to preform Jedi mind tricks - as if him putting his hand over his head will make people who would otherwise find him suspicious drop all suspicion.

    And besides, it's just unrealistic that literally every NPC of the same type would find you suspicious. It just discourages exploration of the level and ruins the "social stealth" aspect of the older games.

    I always liked the old system of the live arial minimap anyways, it's far superior than the trails of fire. A hitman of 47's caliber would have the entire area mapped out anyways, wouldn't he? It just makes more sense. And besides, the whole seeing through walls thing is just really cheesy and unnecessary.

    Don't fix what ain't broken.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsrob View Post
    I think instinct should be completely removed, at the very least removed for the disguise system. I absolutely hate how it works in absolution. It's almost as if 47 has some sort of super hero power to preform Jedi mind tricks - as if him putting his hand over his head will make people who would otherwise find him suspicious drop all suspicion.

    And besides, it's just unrealistic that literally every NPC of the same type would find you suspicious. It just discourages exploration of the level and ruins the "social stealth" aspect of the older games.

    I always liked the old system of the live arial minimap anyways, it's far superior than the trails of fire. A hitman of 47's caliber would have the entire area mapped out anyways, wouldn't he? It just makes more sense. And besides, the whole seeing through walls thing is just really cheesy and unnecessary.

    Don't fix what ain't broken.
    niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

    "social stealth" amazing phrase, completely understand what you mean and 100% agree

    47 would have the place mapped out! for sure... and it is superior to instinct

    add another vote to the abandon instinct list

  14. #39
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    Yeah, I think I changed my mind. I was playing Blood Money last night. Having to cycle between 3 maps to check on an approaching target, having the map unavailable while I was strangling him and while picking locks just added more tension. Actually, completely removing the map and Instinct would be even better. I suppose it could be optional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    Yeah, I think I changed my mind. I was playing Blood Money last night. Having to cycle between 3 maps to check on an approaching target, having the map unavailable while I was strangling him and while picking locks just added more tension. Actually, completely removing the map and Instinct would be even better. I suppose it could be optional.
    Ya came to your senses

  16. #41
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    It takes a strong person to admit when they've changed their mind. Kudos to you.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikom View Post
    It takes a strong person to admit when they've changed their mind. Kudos to you.
    Yeah, well, at the same time there are a lot of loose ends. For example, the fiber wire strangulation in Absolution was different, it was a single button tap execution. The animation was a more realistic depiction of how 47 would really perform it, quick and swift, as opposed to slow and vulnerable like in the old games. The thing about the old Hitman is that the gameplay was expressed figuratively, instead of literally, meaning that 47 operated in a way that was unrealistic, but ironically, conveyed something else entirely that might or might not have been conveyed otherwise. In the next game, will Hitman regress in the graphics and animation department and move robotically. Will he sneak up behind an enemy like a snail to strangle him or will he strike swiftly like in Absolution. These are things to consider? It's hard to imagine 47 shooting, moving and looking like he used to in this day and age. If there was a way to completely transfer the tension and the feeling of the old Hitman to a modern, more realistic style of gameplay? That's what I meant when I was talking about adding consequences for killing people, the cleaning of the blood with a time limit, adding more NPC's, more patrols from security personnel and a variation of patterns, to add tension and stress to an easier gameplay mechanic. I mean really, the big problem with Absolution was the main structure of the gameplay, which was the subject of evading through a linear path. Only time will tell.
    Last edited by S3R6i0; 02-07-2014 at 06:06 PM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3R6i0 View Post
    Yeah, well, at the same time there are a lot of loose ends. For example, the fiber wire strangulation in Absolution was different, it was a single button tap execution. The animation was a more realistic depiction of how 47 would really perform it, quick and swift, as opposed to slow and vulnerable like in the old games. The thing about the old Hitman is that the gameplay was expressed figuratively, instead of literally, meaning that 47 operated in a way that was unrealistic, but ironically, conveyed something else entirely that might or might not have been conveyed otherwise. In the next game, will Hitman regress in the graphics and animation department and move robotically. Will he sneak up behind an enemy like a snail to strangle him or will he strike swiftly like in Absolution. These are things to consider? It's hard to imagine 47 shooting, moving and looking like he used to in this day and age. If there was a way to completely transfer the tension and the feeling of the old Hitman to a modern, more realistic style of gameplay? That's what I meant when I was talking about adding consequences for killing people, the cleaning of the blood with a time limit, adding more NPC's, more patrols from security personnel and a variation of patterns, to add tension and stress to an easier gameplay mechanic. I mean really, the big problem with Absolution was the main structure of the gameplay, which was the subject of evading through a linear path. Only time will tell.
    It's funny that you mention the fiber wire animation; I was just thinking about that today. I think it would be best to return to the old animation of having to ready it (making it taut) before performing the kill; I don't know why but it made me feel more engaged in the game. I don't see anything wrong with the old school animations so, in my opinion, nothing needs to change in that department. The graphics obviously need to change (even from Absolution). To me, Absolution had this hazy filter that was present in most of the levels like Shaving Lenny and the screen also turned a bit grainy when 47 was in the dark. I really hated this. Maybe I'm seeing things though.

  19. #44
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    Also, the way 47 automatically went into 'drag mode' after strangling his victims , instead of standing around waiting for you to press the drag button. IDK, I want the next Hitman to look and play more realistically yet still provide that tension from the old games. However they do it, all I know is I want it to play like Blood Money but look like Absolution. I agree with you about the graphics, that game was grainy and hazy as hell on my 40 inch.

  20. #45
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    i felt like i was looking at batman with a suit and a bald head a lot in Absolution... i did not like that

    47 appears 'skinny' in all of the previous games

    there were a lot of scenes in Absolution that looked nice, but didn't come close to making up for the gameplay

    i think they need to work on creating custom '47' mannerisms

    as well as bringing back a blood money type death scene... the way 47 dies (when you fail a mission) in absolution was annoying - it reminded me of uncharted s death scene.. but worse some how...

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard View Post
    The graphics obviously need to change (even from Absolution). To me, Absolution had this hazy filter that was present in most of the levels like Shaving Lenny and the screen also turned a bit grainy when 47 was in the dark. I really hated this. Maybe I'm seeing things though.
    I agree. That really needs to change in the next games. Also the excessive bloom effect was extremely annoying. I liked the clearer graphics of the older games.

  22. #47
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    Both fibre wire animations have their merits. Old one was tense because if someone saw you while tightening the wire, you were easily screwed. Absolution's made it impossible to get detected unless you were actually seen killing your victim, but was more realistic and satisfying: imo the animation where 47 jumped, strangled the target, and kicked them down was very realistic and cool. Could it be programmed so that 47 would tighten the fibre wire while holding the attack button, like old games? When he got close enough, he could raise the fibre wire to indicate that the player was in range for a kill, and on releasing the attack button, the animation would play.

    On the subject of animations, the sprint/run animation has been terrible in every Hitman game so far. :/

  23. #48
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    If the victim took longer to pass out it would make strangulations more difficult. Yeah, the strangle in Absolution was more satisfying, especially how the background went blurry and focused on 47 and his victim. Another thing they could do is make the people more twitchy and paranoid and looking over their shoulder more.

  24. #49
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    i always thought the fiber wire could be bladed...

    with like small razors on the wire

    i imagine it would basically just slice through the neck like a piece of ham

    while simultaneously choking them

    maybe they could have options on which 'fiber wires' you use... my guess is we will be able to upgrade weapons this go around... (god i hope they do) and maybe they will have a few different types to choose from... with slightly different effects and visuals

  25. #50
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    I read a book once where the fiber wire had small pieces of diamond in them.

    This meant that even if the enemy could somehow get his hands between his neck and the wire, you could cut your way through the fingers (by moving it from left to right) and still take him down without too much force.

    Dont know if such a thing exists in real life, but it could be an used as an upgraded version for the fiber wire (quicker takedown or something like that.)

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