Wouldn't it be cool if Kain & Raziel worked side by side in an upcoming seq.

[Janos Applegate]

I was thinking what if instead of dueling to the death sage btwn Kain & Raziel that instead they worked together to figure out whats happening to them. THey could be partners in a very cool saga that involves each of the two protagonists. The only difference would be that in the ultimate end Raziel would appear victorious maybe betraying or even better staging the whole plot to begin with. It would def. still be a one player RPG though.
What do you guys think??? a little corny I mean I really think this could work out even to a point in one of the seq. Raziel gets Elder like powers or Kain becomes a true like God . . . im rambling here but let me know what you guys think!!!

[Janos Applegate]

this idea could work for BO3. I mean Raziel really hasn't made an enduring role in any of the BO1 or BO2 games. Maybe this is the chance to do so. Or in Soul Reaver 4 what im trying to get out from this statement deals with my past/earlier statment . . . Obviously The Legacy of Kain series must end somewhere and Im thinking in an ultimate end doer where the title isn't BO4 or BO5 not even Soul Reaver5 but The Legacy of Kain something something something which involves both protagonists . . . let me know what y ou guys think!!

[Umah Bloodomen]

I still feel like Kain will take on the role of Raziel's guide, only this time, Raziel will listen to his instructions. It is clear to me Raziel isn't out for Kain in the same manner he was in SR1 and in the beginning of SR2. He appears to be willing to allow Kain to fully open his eyes to the bigger picture and find out who the infamous puppetmasters are. I've commented before on what I feel will happen in SR3 and I will post the related-thread here. I think we are going to see Kain actually dispose of Raziel again, when everything is said and done, and allow the reaver to fully consume him. Until then, they both are going to be discovering new plot elements, we will still play as Raziel but I feel this will be the last time we play as Raziel (in his blue, soul reaving form).

[Katen]

Kain already is Raziels guide but maybe in SR3 it will actually seem more that way.I don't think Kain is going to get rid of Raziel either I think Kains whole pupose was to throw Raziel into the abyss so that he could be resurected and thus travel back and forth between the diminsions so that Raziel would be prepared for the Soul Reaver sword and would not die when it turned aginst him.
In the up coming sequals I think we will be told why Kain cast Raziel into the abyss and what Raziels role will be in the Future.

[fneh]

Kain brought raz back because raziel is a walking PARADOX making machine!

Why do you think kain smiled when the soul reaver was "vanquished"? Because kain's plan was falling into effect.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Perhaps then, this answers the other question of who benefits from the blood reaver becoming the soul reaver, eh?

[fneh]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Perhaps then, this answers the other question of who benefits from the blood reaver becoming the soul reaver, eh?

yeah i actually thought about posting in that one instead but all these topics seem to be getting so similar it's hard not to overlap

[Umah Bloodomen]

It stands to reason that Kain would be the one benefitting by the enhanced reaver. Don't get me wrong, it's clear that Raziel benefits from the reaver in his current form (through elemental enhancements) but I think this is merely adding to the power of the blade. For what we know, Kain can't imbue the reaver himself. Raziel's merely saving him a step and doing it for him. Judging by this mural, we need to consider the possibility of that he who possesses the reaver is relatively invincible. Notice the Ancient isn't compelled to sate his bloodthirst like the two beings on his left and right (implying that the one holding the reaver no longer has a weakness). A friend and I have discussed the possibility of the one holding the reaver being "cured" in the sense of the bloodthirst, at this point I am up in the air about that really. But if the mural proves that the person weilding it is invincible, then its really no wonder why Kain and his rule (from BO leading up to the opening FMV of SR) went virtually uncontested, (and those that did contest him really didn't last long) and how he obtained so much power in such a short period of time.

Raziel being the "walking paradox" as you said is quite humorous. He is really inadvertantly giving Kain what he wants in order to expose the puppetmasters and dispose of the various threats around him.

[fneh]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Raziel being the "walking paradox" as you said is quite humorous. He is really inadvertantly giving Kain what he wants in order to expose the puppetmasters and dispose of the various threats around him.

yeah, that was my whole point. Kain is making raziel do all the work for him while he plans what would happen as a result of raziels actions. Obviously kain made a mistake by his response during SR2's ending (Kain probably would have never discovered about the hylden if this fatal paradox never occured)

As for SR3. I think the walking paradox machine and kain are gonna be thrown into a huge wa for nosgoth with the hylden. Remember the little poem at the end of SR1?

"....a fatal slip
that will plunge the fates of planets into chaos"

If you think about it we already knew BEFORE SR2 that moby was planning the events of SR2!


There's a big piece of the puzzle we are yet to discover before we can come to any conclusions though

[Vampmaster]

I think it would be cool if the Reaver could possess its weilder. Then have Raziel showing the younger Kain things, allowing him to make more educated decisions and allowing him to completely unravel the web of manipulation. Kain wasn't invincable in BO1 or BO2 when he had the Reaver. Maybe it has to be fully imbued with all elements before this will work on anyone but Raziel. I also think it would be cool if Kain were to get the wraith blade.

[Raziel'sRevenge]

While it would be kinda cool if Kain and Raziel worked together I still want to get to fight Kain in SR3, I mean the battle in SR1 with him was fun, but you didn't get to really see what Kain was capable of, and it was too short. But do you know what would be even cooler? If somehow Raziel saved himself from the abyss and you got to play as the blood-thirsty badass Raziel would of been, not that he isn't already. Really, all I wan't to know is what cool stuff would Raziel evolved if he hadn't been thrown into the abyss.

[OugaBooga]

YEAH,that would've been really kewl to see how he'd have looked in the future compared to kain.He prally would've have been serious badass.Still kain DOES seem more the badass-including his voice.Raz's voice is SO wimpy

[SirRaziel]

All I know in SR3 is we will see some real big shockers that will change our theories once it is released. I'm not going to make any big predictions on what will happen in the next game because I know I'm wrong, before I even thought of it.

[Violator]

Raz can fight with a block of cheese as his side kick for all I care just no more damn fire/black demons

[dangerizer]

I'm not sure the reaver really makes anyone invincible...the sarafan lord would have never fell if that was the case in BO2. Kain beat him when he had the reaver. I think it stops the hunger though.

[Umah Bloodomen]

I can't speak for Kain or TSL, but I will point this out to you:

Raziel VO Chapter 18: Vengeance (SR2)

I could sense the boundary between us dissolving - the Reaver was consumed with my rage, and I was intoxicated by its bloodlust. The blade had a vitalizing effect on me - my physical energy no longer decayed over time, and the wounds inflicted by my foes healed almost instantly. The Reaver had made me invincible.

Compliments of Ardeth Silvereni's Dark Chronicle.

[dangerizer]

that is the interesting part though umah the reaver makes raziel invincible but it didn't make the sarafan lord invincible. I don't think it makes kain invincible either i think his power is channelled through the reaver just dropping anyone in one swift blow. no one would get close to him when he had it. remember the fight where the reaver was broken kain could shoot those bolts from the reaver and kill raziel in one shot. sending him spectral. I think when the nexus stone in mobieus staff gets far enough away this allows the reaver to try to consume raziel. Maybe the only way for raziel to use the reaver the way he did before is for them to actually get the nexus stone so the sword will not consume raziel....this could be what kain really wants to make raziel powerful enough to wipe everyone out. if that happened kain could just lay back and watch raziel mop the floor with everyone like at the end of SR2. then all he would have to do is take the nexus stone away from raziel, kain then wins....he's the last man standing, cause raziel is swallowed back into the reaver. just something i was thinking about.

[MARSDUDE]

ya and its called: The Legacy Of Kain Series:Soul Omen or The Legacy Of Kain Series:Blood Reaver lol and its the final game in the series so there is 2 Blood Omen games,2 Soul Reaver games and 1 game that has both guys you can play

[dangerizer]

no there will probably be a blood omen 3 just cause all kain did was kill the sarafan lord in BO2. Kain still has to get rid of all the sarafan or what's left which is a lot. So there is room for them to expand there. SR3 will still probably be just Raziel with kain guiding him like in SR2.

[MARSDUDE]

i was being sarcastic

[dangerizer]

uhuhhhuhuhuhuhuuhuh........damn it beavis......uhuhuhuhuhuhh.........i knew that...........don't be a fartknocker.

[jesta]

Remember that Raziel and Kain are both in altered timelines trying to unravel the mess that Mobius has made.

The reaver was foreged for you and you alone.
Janos to Raziel

But Mobius intervened and changed the course of the Reavers true history so the Reavers would consume Raziel, so its in Kain and Raziels interests to work together.

I think a game where parts are played as Kain and others as Raziel would be good however shaky the alliance between them is.

[dangerizer]

yeah the true test or answers will be to see if kain's actions will keep the reaver from consuming raziel during SR3, but in the end of SR2 Raziel does say that he had only postponed his fate. this is what makes me think the nexus stone could disable the wraith blade at some point....this keeps the 2 reavers from being at the same place at the same time...the physical and the wraith blade.
If the physical blade could make raziel invincible then I would think that kain and raz would want this so raz would be powerful enough to finish even the elder. not sure what the elder wants but he seems to be the most powerful in the series even though we don't see it .....yet. I could be wrong in this happening but it is a posibility only because so much has been left out so far in the soul reaver series. there are too many questions, no one knows yet for sure what everyones motives are. manipulation has been on all sides since the start. this does keep things interesting but hopefully all is answered with a very long SR3 game.

[brother_wolf]

Do you honestly believe Kain gives a rat's ass about the Reaver after he breaks it on Raziel's head? Especially seeing as it was essential for his true plan- THE RESTORATION OF THE PILLARS? Kain knew what was going to occur before SR1, he knew what he had to do. . he knew that Raziel would reemerge eventually, because he saw it all in Moebius' Chronoplast chamber. I don't think malice played any part in what Kain did. . .it was merely an unfortunate necessity for the greater good. And seeing that he knew all that, he must have known that another result of destroying the Reaver's physical manifestation would be the bonding of the wraith-blade to Raziel. . .
Kain needs Raziel. The Pillars and the Reaver are linked as we all learned ala Janos Audron, therefore, their Guardians are also linked, and for all intents and purposes, that is what Kain and Raziel have become. One last point. . .if Kain's intentions were toward the Reaver as others have surmised. . .he would have let Raziel be totally consumed. Kain's ultimate plan was to both restore the Pillars and preserve his own existence. . . an event which, to date in the Bllod Omen-Soul Reaver milleu, not occured. . .

". . .And we are all one step closer to our destinies."-Kain,SR1

[Raziel689]

As was said above we don't know everything until SR3 comes out and we get all the pieces to the puzzle. So lets use what we do have. Above it was said that we don't know if the physical blade can take in elemental powers. But actually we do. When the reaver gets powered up or "imbued in elemental forges" if you prefer, the wraith blade gets the powers. However when the wraith blade goes into the reaver it is "in a physical shell," and can not be imbued. "The blade was tormented after years of imprisonment" So we know that can't happen. Also I don't know if I anyone has noticed how much the Soul Reaver is like Raziel. Raziel was originally a vampire, and then became reborn as a "Reaver of Souls." The physical blade was originally a blade that devoured the blood of its victims until Raziel gets devoured. And with this in mind I have a theory about that moment when Raziel is getting absorbed. The Vampiric blade devours the blood of its victims right? Well Raziel's blood is sustained by devouring souls I think. Everytime you get hit, blue blood is shown which is... well rare so I just assume it. Well anyway Raziel's blood is being pulled into the Reaver while the wraith blade is absorbing Raziel's soul. If Kain hadn't done anything this is what I believe would happen. A lot if not all of Raziel's blood gets pulled into the Reaver, I suppose "coverting it." It makes sense when you think of how Raziel was changed. Anyway Raziel's soul gets pulled into the wraith blade and the wraith blade is left with no host. So in searching for a host possible to latch on to, the now converted physical blade is perfect as it almost is Raziel with his blood in it. This is the birth of the Soul Reaver. This does clear up much in the storyline however, but it is a plus to know the whole history of the blade. This I believe is the "oblivion" Raziel was fearing so much.