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Thread: Xbox One & PS4

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Only the most efficient and most successful console developer
    In terms of handhelds as of lately though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daftvirgin View Post
    In terms of handhelds as of lately though.
    No.

    Nintendo has always had much better knowledge of hardware and how to efficiently build consoles compared to Sony or Microsoft.

    The PS3 and 360 are basically PCs in fancy packaging (and from what I understand - 360 much more so than PS3).

    As for handhelds - that's wrong, too. The Wii has been outselling PS3 and 360 for a loooooooooong time... and by a landslide.

    PS3 and 360 are very focused on a specific demographic, whereas Nintendo knows how to appeal to a much broader audience.

    Edit: and let's not forget that the 360 enjoyed a head start because it was released back in 2005. As soon as Wii entered the market, it has already been selling better than 360 AND PS3. Just about one year after the release of the Wii, it had already caught up with 360's head start and made the 360 eat its dust


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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Completely false.

    Not everyone owns a smart TV. Far from it.

    And not all TVs made today are smart TVs. Far from it.



    The world is actually getting less social when you think about it.

    FB and Twitter are working hard at making this world a much less personal and shallow place. And if what BridgetFisher said is true ("I loved the part where they went into explicit detail about how I can watch TV on my TV, or use social media to auto post my game progress to twitter or facebook.") you just know it's going to make people even more lazy and attention whoring



    You can't blame the guy - MS did portray that their focus is creating a multimedia machine, instead of just a gaming console.



    The advantage of consoles in general over PCs is still comfort. PCs allow users to install all kinds of dodgy or badly coded programs, causing conflicts with gaming. Plus, a console you always connect to a TV and you game from your comfy couch etc, whereas PC gamers are usually (not always) behind a desk. This also makes console gaming more social than PC gaming.



    But you are - you said "And just like on Xbox 360, I'm sure some apps that you aren't interested in can be uninstalled"



    MS put it out there, so criticism is fair game IMO.

    If the makers of the platform of my choice, PlayStation, comes with a public announcement that states that they are probably going to inhibit the second hand market, I expect people to give them hell for this, as well. I'd probably join in, myself.



    It does not confirm, no, but MS does show that's where their focus is going to be. Their whole mission statement is even in the freaking name of their next console FGS.



    Yeah, it's way too early to make any statements about which next gen console is going to be more "developer friendly". Only time will tell.



    Only the most efficient and most successful console developer



    Easier does not necessarily mean better.

    We all know that MS pays big bucks for developers to choose their console over PS3 for development.

    And not just development, but it also throws big bucks at marketing their brand. Perhaps because they know without such heavy marketing they'd lose devs to other consoles...
    I was mainly comparing the PS 3 to the PS 4 in how Sony has basically made the PS 4's architecture like a PC's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    But do you not understand that the PS 4 is going to be alot easier to develop for than the PS 3 was and that Sony is making the PS 4 Indie friendly as well? Things that supposedly Microsoft did well with the 360 are now going to Sony. Which is fine by me since the only console i'll be getting is the PS 4 but if you're an Xbox fan you have to be letdown after that reveal.
    What does the ease of the PS4's development have to do with the primary focus of the Xbox One? Let's not get into a console war over speculation. And actually, I do not "have" to be let down by the Xbox One reveal. I was impressed, as I stated previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by EowynFan View Post
    I cannot comment on this one way or the other, as we have no official word from MS, the features seem too central to the purpose of the devise to just get rid of them. It's always good to think positive though, and I can certainly see it being a possibility.
    How do they seem "central" to the device? Just because they were talked about in great detail? Even still, just because some features were talked about more than others does not lessen the impact of validity of the features yet to be discussed.

    Quote Originally Posted by EowynFan View Post
    Again, I'll say yes and no is still my opinion as we have not seen all E3 (and MS) has to offer. For now, I do not know how gaming focused the X1 will be. All I'm saying is that the reveal in particular was not gaming centric.
    Well (and I mean this generally, not directly to you) if people would learn to stop being so negative and grabbing pitchforks before they even hear the whole story, the world would be a better place. Microsoft said they were showing more at E3 - maybe that's when we'll see more about how gaming will work.

    Quote Originally Posted by EowynFan View Post
    Hmmmm, been looking but to no avail unfortunately; again I am not saying I do not believe it's possible, just that I cannot find anything when taking a good look at both Kotaku and GI. I'm just wondering if MS would back pedal on their mandatory install and used game restrictions, as they seem pretty firm to implement it in some format.
    Well therein lies your problem; I said it was on either Kotaku, Game Informer, or something of the sort. I didn't state factually that it was on either website. Microsoft wants money. So do a lot of companies. It's no surprise. If they want to do what they can to cut back on lost profits by gamers purchasing used games, they can do whatever they please. But they must also take into consideration the general consensus of gamers. If the Xbox One does not allow used games to be played at all, nevermind with an accompanying fee and the PS4 does allow it, everyone will purchase the PS4 instead of the Xbox One and Microsoft would have shot themselves in the proverbial foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    You can't blame the guy - MS did portray that their focus is creating a multimedia machine, instead of just a gaming console.
    True, but most of those features are available on the Xbox 360, but I don't hear anyone complaining that it's not gaming centric.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    But you are - you said "And just like on Xbox 360, I'm sure some apps that you aren't interested in can be uninstalled"
    No, I'm not jumping to any conclusions whatsoever.
    I made an educated assumption based on being able to uninstall what you do not wish to have on the Xbox 360. I can't possibly imagine Microsoft requiring applications to maintain permanent residence on your hard drive - taking up space - when you do not use them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    MS put it out there, so criticism is fair game IMO.

    If the makers of the platform of my choice, PlayStation, comes with a public announcement that states that they are probably going to inhibit the second hand market, I expect people to give them hell for this, as well. I'd probably join in, myself.
    Yes, criticism, not gathering pitchforks and torches before the final word has been given. If Microsoft were to say "Enter feature you do not like here is FINAL," then I can understand. There's a lot of room for change between now and its release and people need to understand that and let the flames of wrath simmer down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    It does not confirm, no, but MS does show that's where their focus is going to be. Their whole mission statement is even in the freaking name of their next console FGS.
    Hold the phone. Is it not possible to have multiple lines of focus in different aspects? Who are you or I to say that Microsoft's focus is more on general entertainment than gaming? Based on what, a reveal that showcased more additional features than its primary? Like I said before, maybe they're waiting until E3 to show us something mindblowing. The theme of my entire standpoint is that patience is a virtue.

    Their mission statement is in the name of the console? What? "One?" Yeah, perhaps everything you could possibly want in the field of entertainment all in one console. That doesn't mean gaming is not a priority.
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    Oh don't get me wrong, I fully agree with the quick pitchfork mentality being a bad thing. I've been arguing just that on several occasions here (TR9 $30 Japanese language pack, anyone? )

    BUT, why are you bringing it up in this thread? Where is this pitchfork mentality on this forum? Where are those flames of wrath you mentioned?

    Did I miss something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    Their mission statement is in the name of the console? What? "One?" Yeah, perhaps everything you could possibly want in the field of entertainment all in one console. That doesn't mean gaming is not a priority.
    Of course gaming is not not going to be a priority for the X1. No one is claiming otherwise. But it apparently is a whole lot less of a priority compared to the 360 if their grand reveal event focuses heavily on home entertainment rather than gaming.

    If that's the first thing MS chooses to showcase, then that gives us an indication that that is going to be thing that will drive the sales of this new console. Or at least, that's what MS seems to be banking on; whether it's going to be a smash hit or just another desperate attempt to try to keep up with the world, remains to be seen...

    I'm not holding my breath for any spectacular game related innovations with this new console. The X1 will probably just have a bunch more RAM, a faster processor, yada yada.

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    To quell any flames of angst and scepticism, Microsoft just announced (rather high-horseish) that they will "Kill Sony at E3."

    http://www.gamechup.com/microsoft-xb...e-world-at-e3/

    *sigh*

    I wish companies would just wake up and coexist instead of being at each others throats. Priorities should be the gamer, not winning a pissing match. Not to start a console war, but last I checked, Sony had a bigger consumer base than Microsoft had with the PS3 and Xbox 360. Microsoft must be banking on something heavy to be making such ballsy remarks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Oh don't get me wrong, I fully agree with the quick pitchfork mentality being a bad thing. I've been arguing just that on several occasions here (TR9 $30 Japanese language pack, anyone? )

    BUT, why are you bringing it up in this thread? Where is this pitchfork mentality on this forum? Where are those flames of wrath you mentioned?

    Did I miss something?
    I was speaking generally when I said that - there hasn't been so much pitchforks and torches here as up in arms about what they've heard and jumping to conclusions before the rest of the information has been given.

    The point I was trying to make is that people are getting fired up over the X1 conference which was basically only a taste of what's to come. Sure, it's beyond understandable that people are upset that Microsoft chose to talk about general entertainment firstly as opposed to gaming, which is what the console is about. But as I said, that was most likely their way of gearing up for the "big reveal" at E3 where they'll undoubtedly showcase nothing but gaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Of course gaming is not not going to be a priority for the X1. No one is claiming otherwise. But it apparently is a whole lot less of a priority compared to the 360 if their grand reveal event focuses heavily on home entertainment rather than gaming.
    I never said people are claiming that the Xbox One will not be gaming centric - however, the comments made implicate disbelief, which is nonsensical given that Microsoft has not dealt their entire hand yet. As I said before, they are most likely gearing up to show us the number one feature: gaming. Think of it as a countdown, so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    If that's the first thing MS chooses to showcase, then that gives us an indication that that is going to be thing that will drive the sales of this new console. Or at least, that's what MS seems to be banking on; whether it's going to be a smash hit or just another desperate attempt to try to keep up with the world, remains to be seen...
    That's presupposition in all honesty. It's perfectly okay to judge based on what you've seen but to make conclusions before the entire product's abilities has been shown is silliness. At the end of the day, gamers will decide what is best for them. If the consumer would rather have nothing but gaming, they'll go with the PlayStation 4. If they would like to have gaming and other entertainment features, they'll go with the Xbox One. There's also that percentage of people who'll end up with both consoles at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    I'm not holding my breath for any spectacular game related innovations with this new console. The X1 will probably just have a bunch more RAM, a faster processor, yada yada.
    I see someone missed out on watching the conference.
    Microsoft already detailed that the Xbox One comes preloaded with an 8GB RAM and 500GB hard drive. I believe the processor was described as well, but I'd have to go back and watch it again to confirm it.
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    It seems everyone takes the Blunty approach to criticize people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    To quell any flames of angst and scepticism, Microsoft just announced (rather high-horseish) that they will "Kill Sony at E3."

    http://www.gamechup.com/microsoft-xb...e-world-at-e3/

    *sigh*

    I wish companies would just wake up and coexist instead of being at each others throats. Priorities should be the gamer, not winning a pissing match. Not to start a console war, but last I checked, Sony had a bigger consumer base than Microsoft had with the PS3 and Xbox 360. Microsoft must be banking on something heavy to be making such ballsy remarks.
    Oh brother

    You know, this kind of language only divides gamers even further. I used to think it was just silly gamers having console wars amongst each other, but now I see the companies themselves even promote this kind of lame rivalry.

    How sad.

    I was speaking generally when I said that - there hasn't been so much pitchforks and torches here
    Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying that.

    The point I was trying to make is that people are getting fired up over the X1 conference which was basically only a taste of what's to come.
    ....and now you just made it confusing again

    Sure, it's beyond understandable that people are upset that Microsoft chose to talk about general entertainment firstly as opposed to gaming, which is what the console is about. But as I said, that was most likely their way of gearing up for the "big reveal" at E3 where they'll undoubtedly showcase nothing but gaming.
    If most people left with a bad taste in their mouths from the event, one could only conclude that it was a bad marketing move to not showcase the gaming element first

    I never said people are claiming that the Xbox One will not be gaming centric - however, the comments made implicate disbelief, which is nonsensical given that Microsoft has not dealt their entire hand yet. As I said before, they are most likely gearing up to show us the number one feature: gaming. Think of it as a countdown, so to speak.
    People react to what they see. I have to agree that it may not be the smartest of things to first talk about non-gaming things at the first reveal of a new console. As long as people's comments are devoid of the aforementioned pitchforks, it's all justifiable IMO.

    That's presupposition in all honesty. It's perfectly okay to judge based on what you've seen but to make conclusions before the entire product's abilities has been shown is silliness. At the end of the day, gamers will decide what is best for them. If the consumer would rather have nothing but gaming, they'll go with the PlayStation 4. If they would like to have gaming and other entertainment features, they'll go with the Xbox One. There's also that percentage of people who'll end up with both consoles at some point.
    Ah, if only it was as simple as that

    In reality, gamers are sort of forced to buy a console they do not like, due to all the exclusivity deals and all that evil.

    I see someone missed out on watching the conference.
    Microsoft already detailed that the Xbox One comes preloaded with an 8GB RAM and 500GB hard drive. I believe the processor was described as well, but I'd have to go back and watch it again to confirm it.
    I'm assuming that by your emboldening of my word "probably" you inferred that I was speculating whether or not X1 will be more powerful than 360. Of course it is going to be; that's a no-brainer, lol.

    What I was saying is that we probably will not see any ground breaking innovation with the X1. Just making a console more powerful than its predecessor is not innovation.

    The specs you just mentioned are exactly what I was referring to, so yes, I do know them

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    I am honored to be the thread's OP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    You can't blame the guy - MS did portray that their focus is creating a multimedia machine, instead of just a gaming console.
    It was a presentation for the general / mainstream audience, not particularly gamers. I don't blame MS for trying to cater to them. On E3 the focus will be on games, according to MS. In fact MS stated it will launch 15 exclusive games for ONE in its first year, more than ever for XBox. Probably among them some Kinect titles no gamer is interested in but still even if a third of them are triple A big budget titles, that would be good. I dunno where the problem is...

    As for mandatory installs, i always install games anyway. How they will handle used games is not clear yet, so i won't bother comment on rumors.

    Games on 360 are easier to develop for than on PS3, that's a fact.

    And Nintendo is a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Nintendo has always had much better knowledge of hardware and how to efficiently build consoles compared to Sony or Microsoft.
    How would you know? What do you even mean by "efficient"? And what is wrong with PC architecture?


    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    The Wii has been outselling PS3 and 360 for a loooooooooong time... and by a landslide.
    The 360 and PS3 are outselling the Wii by a landslide for over a year now. Overall, the lead of the Wii is not that big, 99 million units vs 77 million (360 and PS3 each).

    Let's not mention the flop that is Wii U.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar78 View Post
    The 360 and PS3 are outselling the Wii by a landslide for over a year now. Overall, the lead of the Wii is not that big, 99 million units vs 77 million (360 and PS3 each).
    Uh...no.
    As of March 2013, the Nintendo Wii has sold close to one billion units, Xbox 360 at around 77 milion and 70 million with the PS3. Unless you do arithmetic differently in your country of origin, the Nintendo Wii continues to dominate the gaming industry in terms of profit.

    The Wii's lead is not that big? It must be nice living in delusion, I must try it sometime.
    Twenty-two million units is a rather substantial lead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    You know, this kind of language only divides gamers even further. I used to think it was just silly gamers having console wars amongst each other, but now I see the companies themselves even promote this kind of lame rivalry.
    Well, now we know who to blame for any Xbox One/PS4 console wars this generation: Microsoft. Sony hasn't said a single anti-Xbox thing yet and Microsoft is already gearing up to make an arse of themselves. Shame, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    ....and now you just made it confusing again
    Stop overthinking lest I slap ye with a slice of pizza.
    I was trying to say that since the X1 conference, gamers left and right are up in arms about it and jumping to conclusions; Microsoft hasn't shown us everything yet nor have they stated what is final and what is being worked on. I personally don't feel it's appropriate to be at Microsoft's throat before all of the information is given.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    If most people left with a bad taste in their mouths from the event, one could only conclude that it was a bad marketing move to not showcase the gaming element first
    While that's perfectly understandable, it does not alter the fact that people are making judgements based off of information not yet given. "The Xbox One does not focus on gaming," is ludicrous because Microsoft has not yet shown us how gaming works on the Xbox One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    People react to what they see. I have to agree that it may not be the smartest of things to first talk about non-gaming things at the first reveal of a new console. As long as people's comments are devoid of the aforementioned pitchforks, it's all justifiable IMO.
    Well of course, it wasn't a bright idea to talk about every feature except gaming on a gaming console's unveiling. It's certainly justifiable to be upset, but some of the comments being made are not appropriate given that we've not yet seen what gaming will be like. That's the point I've been trying to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Ah, if only it was as simple as that

    In reality, gamers are sort of forced to buy a console they do not like, due to all the exclusivity deals and all that evil.
    I wouldn't use the word 'force' in that context; 'influenced' would be more appropriate. Gamers aren't forced to choose between one console and another and if they feel that they are, it's because they have the mentality of "Well I want it now." If you honestly feel like you can't choose between the Xbox One and the PS4 because both consoles have exclusives that you want, you have three choices:

    1.) Wait until you can afford to purchase both.
    2.) Purchase one and purchase the other when you can afford it.
    3.) Purchase one and find a friend who has the other and hang out with them and play the other console.

    You are never forced to do anything, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    I'm assuming that by your emboldening of my word "probably" you inferred that I was speculating whether or not X1 will be more powerful than 360. Of course it is going to be; that's a no-brainer, lol.

    What I was saying is that we probably will not see any ground breaking innovation with the X1. Just making a console more powerful than its predecessor is not innovation.
    In all honesty, when was the last time something was truly innovative in the gaming industry? The last true innovation I can think of is the transition from Xbox and PS2 to Xbox 360 and PS3 and that generation started what, seven or eight years ago? Following that was the Nintendo Wii with their motion-style gameplay, in which Microsoft and Sony followed with the Kinect and Move. Other than that, I can't think of anything else.

    There will never be any ground-breaking innovation until immersive, virtual reality is invented. In this day and age, "innovation" is simply building atop last year's model. It's not only the X1 but the PS4 as well - if one cannot imagine Microsoft doing anything innovative, the same must be said for Sony as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    How do they seem "central" to the device? Just because they were talked about in great detail? Even still, just because some features were talked about more than others does not lessen the impact of validity of the features yet to be discussed.

    Well (and I mean this generally, not directly to you) if people would learn to stop being so negative and grabbing pitchforks before they even hear the whole story, the world would be a better place. Microsoft said they were showing more at E3 - maybe that's when we'll see more about how gaming will work.

    Well therein lies your problem; I said it was on either Kotaku, Game Informer, or something of the sort. I didn't state factually that it was on either website. Microsoft wants money. So do a lot of companies. It's no surprise. If they want to do what they can to cut back on lost profits by gamers purchasing used games, they can do whatever they please. But they must also take into consideration the general consensus of gamers. If the Xbox One does not allow used games to be played at all, nevermind with an accompanying fee and the PS4 does allow it, everyone will purchase the PS4 instead of the Xbox One and Microsoft would have shot themselves in the proverbial foot.
    That's exactly why they seem central. If you did not know this was a gaming system, and went solely off the reveal (the things we know to be true) you'd think it was a multimedia box with gaming features along with TV and social features. I don't think I said that gaming will not be a big part of the X1. All I am saying is that the with the reveal itself MS decided to showcase primarily non-gaming features; and no, I do not think it lessens the validity of the gaming features, I merely said they were not strongly shown at the reveal. I do agree with you: come E3, which is indeed for gaming, we will see more of the X1 has to offer in gaming.

    I thank you for not directing this at me, because my pitchfork and touch are safely stowed away. I do agree though, the pitchfork mentality is pretty absurd and people need to know more before getting really upset about rumors and speculation. But unfortunately, we know it will still happen, silly as it is.

    I also did your suggested Google search (but I guess I only found it necessary to mention specifically the sites you mentioned specifically,) and later more digging , and all I've found concerning MS backpedaling is this:

    http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/mi...s-u/1100-4646/

    And that's not really too clear cut at all.

    Anyhow, even if the most anti-consumer policies were implemented on the X1 (or PS4 or any console) people would still buy it, because they want to play those games or simply just don't care. A bunch of people have been saying, "I don't buy used, so I don't care." They'll still buy. So far, MS has seemed to shoot themselves in the proverbial foot (or face, judging by all the pitchfork and touch internet outrage.) E3 will be telling. I hope they do backpedal on the used games thing or tell us it's all rumors, because it will be a sad day if/when used game sells die.

    Wow... it's sad to see the actual companies having console wars. They're going to "kill Sony"? Yeesh, that's childish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    To quell any flames of angst and scepticism, Microsoft just announced (rather high-horseish) that they will "Kill Sony at E3."

    http://www.gamechup.com/microsoft-xb...e-world-at-e3/

    *sigh*

    I wish companies would just wake up and coexist instead of being at each others throats. Priorities should be the gamer, not winning a pissing match. Not to start a console war, but last I checked, Sony had a bigger consumer base than Microsoft had with the PS3 and Xbox 360. Microsoft must be banking on something heavy to be making such ballsy remarks.
    I kind of like companies stooping to our level. Always being nice and all is boring.

    Sony doesn't have a bigger consumer base, they are neck and neck with the PS3 and 360, the latter having a headstart, though.

    But overall, i agree with your posts.

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    Hmmm xbox one, this has nothing to do with my interests in Tomb raider

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    The fact that they focused their presentation solely on TV features suggests that whilst gaming is a priority, it's more of a priority to Microsoft to make the device a social hub. I see this being the perfect thing for casuals and It's already evident that hardcore gamers are anticipating Sony's console much more, atm since they're not impressed.

    However, to slam Xbox One's credibility as a gaming console is a bit pre-mature, I suppose. If they have 15 exclusives set up for the console and are investing 1 billion solely on that then I'm certain they're putting extreme effort into making sure gamers (albeit causal or hardcore) get what they expect from the console. Then clearly it's not that bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Martok View Post
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    The question the general public have been asking themselves since the 3DflopS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    To quell any flames of angst and scepticism, Microsoft just announced (rather high-horseish) that they will "Kill Sony at E3."

    http://www.gamechup.com/microsoft-xb...e-world-at-e3/

    *sigh*

    I wish companies would just wake up and coexist instead of being at each others throats. Priorities should be the gamer, not winning a pissing match. Not to start a console war, but last I checked, Sony had a bigger consumer base than Microsoft had with the PS3 and Xbox 360. Microsoft must be banking on something heavy to be making such ballsy remarks.
    CEO of Sony's response:

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    Quote Originally Posted by EowynFan View Post
    That's exactly why they seem central. If you did not know this was a gaming system, and went solely off the reveal (the things we know to be true) you'd think it was a multimedia box with gaming features along with TV and social features. I don't think I said that gaming will not be a big part of the X1. All I am saying is that the with the reveal itself MS decided to showcase primarily non-gaming features; and no, I do not think it lessens the validity of the gaming features, I merely said they were not strongly shown at the reveal. I do agree with you: come E3, which is indeed for gaming, we will see more of the X1 has to offer in gaming.
    Well that's where I take issue. "If you did not know this was a gaming system..." I think everyone who tuned into the Xbox One conference knew what it was. My grandmother - who hasn't touched an electronic other than the television remote - can differentiate between an Xbox and a PlayStation. Case and point: anyone who's interested knows what it is, so Microsoft isn't really required to educate the ignorant on that front. I understand your point though, gaming should have been priority one in the discussion since it is a gaming console after all, but it was not and while we can sit here talking about could-haves and would-haves until the cows come home, we've no other choice but to simply wait and see what else Microsoft will share with us.

    Quote Originally Posted by EowynFan View Post
    I also did your suggested Google search (but I guess I only found it necessary to mention specifically the sites you mentioned specifically,) and later more digging , and all I've found concerning MS backpedaling is this:

    http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/mi...s-u/1100-4646/

    And that's not really too clear cut at all.
    Yes, that's the one I was talking about. True, it does not give definitive answers, but the fact that Microsoft is addressing it is enough to quell any flames until the official and final answers are given.

    Quote Originally Posted by EowynFan View Post
    Anyhow, even if the most anti-consumer policies were implemented on the X1 (or PS4 or any console) people would still buy it, because they want to play those games or simply just don't care. A bunch of people have been saying, "I don't buy used, so I don't care." They'll still buy. So far, MS has seemed to shoot themselves in the proverbial foot (or face, judging by all the pitchfork and touch internet outrage.) E3 will be telling. I hope they do backpedal on the used games thing or tell us it's all rumors, because it will be a sad day if/when used game sells die.
    I understand the situation with used games completely, but it's rather nonsensical when you think about it. Allow me to outline some points about used games and combat them with a rebuttal:

    Purchasing preowned games saves you money.
    Yes...after a few months. Used copies of new games are usually only cheaper by $5. The longer the game has been available (as well as popularity and demand) the cheaper the used copy will be.

    Purchasing preowned gives you a way to back out if you don't like it.
    This is only partly true. I have a better understanding of the market now that I work for GameStop and the company policy is that you can return a preowned game within seven days for any reason for a full refund or exchange for something different. After the seven days, you may only return it for another copy of the same title. Now pay attention, because this is the interesting part: as outlined in the company's policy - the fine print that no one likes to read - as well as in the employee manual, GameStop reserves the right to deny a return if it's determined that the customer is abusing the policy as a rental service. So the next time you're compelled to purchase a preowned game, play it for seven days, return it for something else and repeat the process, I'd bear that in mind.

    Primarily, the reason why I'm concerned about Xbox One and PS4 doing away with the used games market is because I don't want to lose the job I've been after since I was fifteen.

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgetFisher View Post
    Hmmm xbox one, this has nothing to do with my interests in Tomb raider
    Then why waste a post?
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    Ive never agreed with the resale of used games by these retail stores that operate in my perspective as a criminal enterprise without the duty to track paperwork like a pawn shop. Its legalized piracy since none of the sales of used games are returned to the developer allowing these stores to rob the families of those who work hard to produce the media we all enjoy. On consoles this problem has been solved, a 360 could do it, it has the ability with its patented signature technology but that was just a test bed for how its being rolled out on the Xbox One. Finally these stores can end their unethical practices of stealing from hard working developers who spend days AND nights staring at screens punching keys to do stuff. Sadly it wont be the nail in the coffin for brick and mortar stores but its one step closer to closing the lid on the coffin for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    Well that's where I take issue. "If you did not know this was a gaming system..." I think everyone who tuned into the Xbox One conference knew what it was. My grandmother - who hasn't touched an electronic other than the television remote - can differentiate between an Xbox and a PlayStation. Case and point: anyone who's interested knows what it is, so Microsoft isn't really required to educate the ignorant on that front. I understand your point though, gaming should have been priority one in the discussion since it is a gaming console after all, but it was not and while we can sit here talking about could-haves and would-haves until the cows come home, we've no other choice but to simply wait and see what else Microsoft will share with us.



    Yes, that's the one I was talking about. True, it does not give definitive answers, but the fact that Microsoft is addressing it is enough to quell any flames until the official and final answers are given.



    I understand the situation with used games completely, but it's rather nonsensical when you think about it. Allow me to outline some points about used games and combat them with a rebuttal:

    Purchasing preowned games saves you money.
    Yes...after a few months. Used copies of new games are usually only cheaper by $5. The longer the game has been available (as well as popularity and demand) the cheaper the used copy will be.

    Purchasing preowned gives you a way to back out if you don't like it.
    This is only partly true. I have a better understanding of the market now that I work for GameStop and the company policy is that you can return a preowned game within seven days for any reason for a full refund or exchange for something different. After the seven days, you may only return it for another copy of the same title. Now pay attention, because this is the interesting part: as outlined in the company's policy - the fine print that no one likes to read - as well as in the employee manual, GameStop reserves the right to deny a return if it's determined that the customer is abusing the policy as a rental service. So the next time you're compelled to purchase a preowned game, play it for seven days, return it for something else and repeat the process, I'd bear that in mind.

    Primarily, the reason why I'm concerned about Xbox One and PS4 doing away with the used games market is because I don't want to lose the job I've been after since I was fifteen.



    Then why waste a post?

    I think we are saying the same thing here, are we not? MS will show more about the X1 and gaming at E3, until then we cannot say anything for sure but that what we saw. And what we saw was not strongly about gaming; so that being said, I do not find it hard to believe that would leave people to believe gaming is not taking front and center. They certainly should have shown more gaming related, I feel, but there what is done is done and now we can only look ahead.

    The way they are handling it is very confusing. The VP says there will be a fee, XBOX Support Twitter says there will not, Major tried to smooth ruffled feathers by saying you can play a game at a buddy's house by logging in to you account on his/her console. Nothing is really clear here.

    For saving money it really depends on how long you're willing to wait. I've been wanting to try Gears of War, and after a long time got them used, $6 for Gears 1 and 2 instead of the roughly $120 I'd have to have spent for brand new copies. Used game market is also great for old current gen games. Say you want to play Perfect Dark Zero. You are not going to find that anywhere new because it is so old, used is the perfect solution.

    I agree with this point fully, and I did indeed know they can stop you from returning games. It's a sad thing though, that people would use it like a rental service.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EowynFan View Post
    I think we are saying the same thing here, are we not? MS will show more about the X1 and gaming at E3, until then we cannot say anything for sure but that what we saw. And what we saw was not strongly about gaming; so that being said, I do not find it hard to believe that would leave people to believe gaming is not taking front and center. They certainly should have shown more gaming related, I feel, but there what is done is done and now we can only look ahead.
    E3 isnt the issue, at this point business wise it doesnt matter what they do. Financial analysts and business people have judged with their wallets, M$ spent an estimated 160 million to show as you stated nothing to wait until E3? if that is how their managing their company wasting that much money on nothing, I wouldnt count on them being able to get much done at E3. MS though as the money to burn and so does Sony since the revenue overall is being generated by other consumer goods outside of consoles. Hopefully this is the last generation for MS and PS before investors pull the plug due to poor leadership and mismanagement. Heard Sega might have something in the works, could it be the old Nintendo vs Sega all over again? that would be pretty exciting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BridgetFisher View Post
    Ive never agreed with the resale of used games by these retail stores that operate in my perspective as a criminal enterprise without the duty to track paperwork like a pawn shop.
    We don't need your permission. It's under the company policy. You ever trade in a game at GameStop and the associate has you sign your name on the signature pad? Did you actually read the disclaimer before signing your name and hitting accept? When you trade in your products and sign your name, you are signing over ownership and authorising GameStop to basically do with it what we will. What, do you think your traded products just sit on a back shelf until they expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgetFisher View Post
    Its legalized piracy since none of the sales of used games are returned to the developer allowing these stores to rob the families of those who work hard to produce the media we all enjoy.
    It's not piracy whatsoever, it's business. When you purchase a new game with say, serial number 0052, the profits from that sale are divided (not evenly, mind you) between the publisher, developer and the seller (GameStop.) When you bring the game back to GameStop and trade it in, the profits from the sale of that game (serial number 0052) already went to the respective parties, so now GameStop has the given right (by the companies and legally by right) to make their own profit from the resale. You can't make a profit on the same thing twice. What if you sold a game to your friend? If you're going to have that attitude, I hope you're sending a share of the money received from the game to the developers and publishers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgetFisher View Post
    Finally these stores can end their unethical practices of stealing from hard working developers who spend days AND nights staring at screens punching keys to do stuff. Sadly it wont be the nail in the coffin for brick and mortar stores but its one step closer to closing the lid on the coffin for them.


    You're preaching about a subject you can't even begin to understand. Companies need GameStop and similar middlemen to sell their games. GameStop will never go out of business unless the only way to obtain a video game is to download it out of thin air. It's not unethical, it's not stealing. You just have no sense of how the video game market works and I urge you to educate yourself before speaking about it further.

    Quote Originally Posted by EowynFan View Post
    It's a sad thing though, that people would use it like a rental service.
    Where there is kindness, there are people willing to take advantage of it.
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    @BridgetFisher,

    Car companies don't complain about used cars.
    Movie companies don't complain about used movies.

    It's not piracy.

    Not everyone can afford a $60 (or more, depending on the edition purchased) title right off the bat....that means one of two things: 1. They have to wait until the game comes down in retail price, which could be up to a year, perhaps even more, depending on how well the game sells. 2. They'll have to wait until a used copy of a game becomes available at the local GameStop/Best Buy/Pawn Shop. And used game prices are apparently (as far as I can tell) determined by how well a game is doing in the new sales market. (Anyone with a bit more insight on this, I would love some enlightenment. ) It could still take a while for even a used game to come down in price for something that less fortunate families/users can afford.

    The only (supposed) evil that GameStop might be engaging in is that they actually push (or at least, used to push) the sale of used games over new, because that's how the company makes their profit. Every trip that I've been on to GameStop lately though, it would seem they have abandoned that practice. (It's been a while since I've worked for a GameStop too....but at the time, the practice was definitely that the Game Advisors were encouraged to try and actively sell used titles first. Valenka, perhaps you can confirm current sales practices? --Edit...and it looks like you did since I was typing up this overlong post. ) But, to sum up, a game developer/publisher makes its money ONCE on a product sold per unit, just like every other manufacturing or production company. Game companies have tried to up the ante by recouping in used game sales by requiring "online passes" if gamers purchasing used titles wish to play the latest, greatest multiplayer titles...or pimping "season passes" if players wish to get a supposedly good deal on DLC (whether single or multiplayer).

    As for Nintendo Wii, I am frankly amazed that it sells as well as it does. It might have some good original, childrens' titles, but just about every port (just about...not every) I've seen of games that were made for PS3/Xbox 360 blow goats when it gets ported to the Wii in terms of both graphics and game play. It sounds like their online interface (which seems to be rather minimal) is less than user friendly, especially in the social area. The only reason I would've gotten a Wii would've been for the Resident Evil Chronicles titles, but now that those have been ported over to PS3, I have no need for it.

    And everything I've seen or heard about the Wii U seems to point toward its ever increasing obscurity.

    The big stinks with Xbox One, (aside from its initial presentation which seemed to focus on the X1 being more of a set-top box than an actual gaming console), are its apparent designs for used games. Wanna play a used game? Pay the same as "retail", or some such horse hockey. A friend of mine who works at Best Buy said that it seems like the route that M$ is going, Best Buy will be charged a fee for every used title that gets sold to them by users. Likely will be the same with GameStop. And then, what happens when those used games are sold to new end-users? The end-users end up getting charged the fees that GS and BB were charged when receiving used titles. So, the practice that M$ is engaging in is trying to kill the used games market by discouraging such sales...kinda like how heavier taxes are placed on cigarette sales, with the intent being that if higher prices are placed on such things, the less folk will want to buy them. (And some folks who are desperate enough for a smoke...Thank God smoking is something I've never taken up....will actually pay another smoker just for one cigarette. Phillip Morris, et al, never see a red dime from those sales...LOL!) M$ is imposing that if you want to be able to play the latest and greatest titles (regardless of how far down the road you may be able to get the game) you must pay full retail. As stated before, not everyone can afford full retail...which means that by the time they can actually afford the title, it won't be the latest and greatest anymore...and likely even moreso end up being nearly obsolete because the latest and greatest edition of said title will be rolling out soon. Shoot, if I recall correctly, even when Halo 2 came out for Xbox, the original Halo was still going for full retail price, and had not come down yet.

    Quite honestly, I don't see the used game market hurting the new games market (and the devs/pubs) one bit. It takes the sale of a new game in order to turn around and make that unit as a used title. That's one unit sold, period. The pubs/devs have made their money off the new sale. What happens to that unit afterwards is out of their hands. Even if a gamer returns the title, and gets a full refund because said title "sucked", it cannot be resold as a "new" title. That unit has been used...or as is the current jargon "previously enjoyed" (or perhaps more accurately "previously endured" if the game sucked in the original end-user's opinion. ) It's a 1 to 1 deal initially. It takes a million new units to make the potential for a million "used" units. (And only a fraction, even if it is a sizeable fraction, actually take their games back to trade in on new titles. Many still hang on to their older titles. Hell, I still have a considerable portion of my old PS2 and Xbox titles.) Used units are in circulation, so perhaps their sales could potentially outweigh new sales in terms of units sold, but still, used units do not self-propagate or perpetuate.

    You see, children....when a developer and a publisher really, really love each other, they get close. And then the publisher sticks his hoo-dilly into the developer's cha-cha...and then...... (ooops....sorry, children, nuthin' ta' see here...move along, children, move along.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Martok View Post
    The only (supposed) evil that GameStop might be engaging in is that they actually push (or at least, used to push) the sale of used games over new, because that's how the company makes their profit. Every trip that I've been on to GameStop lately though, it would seem they have abandoned that practice. (It's been a while since I've worked for a GameStop too....but at the time, the practice was definitely that the Game Advisors were encouraged to try and actively sell used titles first. Valenka, perhaps you can confirm current sales practices? --Edit...and it looks like you did since I was typing up this overlong post. )
    Quite alright, Lord Martok! I'll give as much information as I legally can, and it basically boils down to common sense, so I won't be under scrutiny for sharing this. A lot of people say GameStop is a rip off because you could buy a $60 game today and trade it in tomorrow and only get $25 for it. It's much like purchasing a car. The moment you drive it off the lot, the vehicle depreciates in value immediately by a substantial amount. Same goes with video games. It's ludicrous to expect GameStop to basically buy the game back from you when we could just get a new copy from the developer. We're not going to buy your game back for $50 and then sell it for $30. That's a poor business practice and it also makes us lose profit. Believe it or not, GameStop does care about the gamer, but we have to make a profit to keep ourselves running. It's much like the law enforcement. Everyone hates them until they need them.

    As for pushing the sale of used games, that remains partly true. There are two reasons why we push purchased used games: one, because it benefits the consumer thanks to our policy. If the game did not meet your expectation (which is the primary reason of used game returns), you are able to return it within seven days for a full refund or for another game of your choice, as long as you do not abuse this policy. Two, because we make a large percentage of our profits on the sale of used products.

    However, should you choose to purchase a new game instead of a used one, you are more than welcome to do so because we do want you to support the developer as well.

    Going back to trade-ins and such, customers that have a PowerUp Rewards membership are given percentage bonuses to trade-in values as well as other worthy incentives. In addition, GameStop will occasionally have promotions such as the current: you can get an extra 30% store credit when you trade in games and products toward select products, like Call of Duty: Ghosts and Grand Theft Auto V. While the funds from trading in the products are required to go toward a valid promotional item, you get to keep any funds after the item is paid off. So say if you trade in 5 games toward GTA 5 and with the extra 30%, you only need 3 to pay off the game, you still get an extra 30% on the other two games and you can do what you want with the funds.
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