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Thread: TR10 speculation thread / Deciphering Lara's Journal (WARNING - SPOILERS & KITTENS)

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle Croft View Post
    NATLA IS COMING BACK "I'm very pleased to see you again, younger amnesia Lara"
    Himiko! The seventh age is upon us!
    I need the hammer to kill a god!

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    I started a thread on reddit a day before this one. You guys have mistranslated a fair amount of stuff and missed a few things. I'll copy the thread here for those who want to contribute to my effort. I'm still looking for a concrete translation of the German in the bottom left (so far both translations have had problems), a map that would line up to the faded map, and of course a few more lines to be drawn between the items. Here's my post.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/TombRaider/c...tain_spoilers/

    This could be absolutely nothing, but it seems too related to be random bits thrown on a page.

    The page in question. http://i.imgur.com/L61tBU6.jpg

    Now, it's possible that the devs said "Throw some history stuff on the pages and let's wrap it up already." but in doing a bit of digging I think it may be more than that.
    I originally thought the top right was a misspelling of "Croatian" but I can't imagine Lara (or the devs) would make such a mistake. So I did a bit of Googling and, among other uses of the word Croatoan, found a lot about Roanoke Colony. For those unfamiliar with it Roanoke Colony, was an English settlement in what is now North Carolina in the late 1500s. It mysteriously disappeared and there was no sign of "foul play," in fact the colonists had clearly deliberately dismantled their colony and simply vanished, leaving only the word "Croatoan" carved into a post. Roanoke is now known as the Lost Colony.

    Now, there are other uses of the word Croatoan, such as a Native American tribe or an island (more of a reef, really) which are both in the same area but the next bit is why I believe Roanoke was what was being referenced.

    On the left page we have, among other things, a note paper with Cyrillic writing. /u/milancheee let me know that the writing is actually English but just using the Cyrillic alphabet and translated it as:

    Eight have origin
    Time essential
    Lost deel village

    The lost village bit combined with the "Croatoan" is why I believe we are referring to Roanoke.

    Below that we see a bit of paper with the number and roman numeral for 3 on it. This is what actually got me looking at this stuff in the first place. /u/SomewhatSpecial asked about Trinity, a mysterious organization you learn very little about and questions are left unanswered. All we seem to know comes from two files:

    Number 1
    Number 2

    (Screenshots from SomewhatSpecial)

    Lara finding this reference to Trinity on the island may have her seeking out more about them/it. I believe that the presence of the 3 and III with the question mark could mean what we're seeing on the pages are related to Lara's search for more information about Trinity.

    The bottom of the original screenshot is German for "it is the (Schissel?)" but I'm unable to figure out what Schissel would be. Edit: /u/darthbiki reports that the German at the bottom of the page may be "Sie ist der Schlüssel" meaning "She is the key"

    So here are the general elements of the page:

    Article 1: Top Left, note with Cyrillic. Translation:

    Eight have origin
    Time essential
    Lost deel village

    May refer to Roanoke. I do not know the significance of "eight have origin." (See Edit #7)

    Article 2: Behind the note you can see a drawing of what could be a spear, arrow, window, etc.

    Article 3: Note with 3 and III? - Could be referring to Trinity

    Article 4: Drawing of some cliffs with what appears to be a cave circled in red. The drawing is taken from a book of some sort, indicated by the Figure: Etching underneath.

    Article 5: German "She is the key" (See Edit 6 Below)

    Article 6: Top right is the word Croatoan with an arrow pointing towards a spot on the map below. Croatoan may refer to Roanoke.

    Article 7: The map is faded and it is hard to compare it to any area maps I've looked up of the area around Roanoke or Hatteras Island, historically called Croatoan. There are red lines drawn, some of which appear to follow a border and/or river. Interestingly the arrow does not point to the same location that is marked with the x on teh map but to a separate spot.

    Article 8: Blood stained paper saying _runter. I can't make out the first letter clearly but, if in English, the logical word would be grunter. However the first letter doesn't appear to be one used in the English alphabet so this may be in an alphabet like Cyrillic that shares some characters with English.
    Edit: /u/Come_mai believes this may be drunter, a variant of darunter which is German for "beneath" While the lower case d would seem out of place the word also makes use of a lower case e so clearly letter capitalization isn't perfect and Come_mai may be on to something.

    Article 9: The writing at the bottom appears to be in Cyrillic or an alphabet that shares characters with it, but due to the font my layman eyes can't determine a way to read it. (See Edit #5 below)

    So there you have it, there's everything I know. Anything other redditors can input, or any fun fan theories?

    (And yes, I will feel silly if this is all just random stuff that means nothing but, hey, I'm having fun trying to play detective, and I even learned the basics of reading Cyrillic so, yay.)

    Edit #1
    I was searching for a map to compare to the faded map in her journal and found this map of the area surrounding Roanoke:

    http://i.imgur.com/DHA2Fsi.gif

    Note that Roanoke is located at Trinety Harbor. Could be something.

    Edit #2
    /u/darthbiki reports that the German (item 5) is "Sie ist der Schlüssel" meaning "She is the key"

    Edit #3
    /u/Come_mai has this to say regarding article 8.
    it looks like "drunter", which is a common variant of "darunter" in german, which means beneath
    -comment

    Edit #4
    Been brainstorming and thinking back to previous villains which, naturally, the first thought goes to Natla. Being a reboot theres absolutely no need for them to ever bring Natla into the series, they can and probably will go an entirely different way, but it's worth mention that Natla, along with Tihocan and Qualopec, formed the triumvirate that ruled Atlantis. It could be (and probably is) purely coincidental but Triumvirate and Trinity are both groups of three powerful people/beings.

    Edit #5
    I've been taking a closer look at Article 9 and cross-referencing it with handwritten Cyrillic cursive and I believe I had mis-identified a few of the letters. I took a closer look and the second, larger word is once again English Cyrillic and is виллагэ, translated as village. Seems stupid that I missed it now since you can see it handwritten on the opposite page, it's just not in cursive so it's not as obvious.

    Edit #5b
    Article #9 is "lost deep* village"; even though letters are cut off by the bookmark strip you can clearly see it shares the same characters as the same "lost deep* village" Cyrillic on the previous page. *-See Edit #7

    Edit #6
    A day or so after I made this thread a similar one popped up on the Tomb Raider forums. While it's just a rehashing of some of the information here there is one alternate German translation that may be worth mentioning:

    In regards to what I have previously referred to as Article 5, the German at the bottom left, they first translated it as "sie ist der schisser" meaning "it is the sailor." Character-wise it works better than She is the key, the german characters line up. However translation-wise it does not pan out. Sie is feminine, der is masculine so currently we have a choice of a phrase that makes sense but doesn't quite fit character-wise (she is the key) or a phrase that fits character-wise but goes against basic German grammar.

    Edit #7
    Because of my epic fail at translating Cyrillic in Edit #5 I decided to revisit some bits of Article 1 that didn't make sense, in particular the second to last word. I've seen it translated lost deel village and lost deed village. Deed's a word at least, but still makes no sense. That's because I was identifying the last character as Л when, in hindsight it could instead be a П. Handwriting varies, of course, but you'll notice the Л in the word village (the last word) bow out a fair amount more than the straighter-looking letter ending the previous word. If the letter is actually suppoed to be П which would turn the translation into "lost deep village" which makes slightly more sense.
    Last edited by Rixen; 03-10-2013 at 03:45 AM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rixen View Post
    I started a thread on reddit a day before this one. You guys have mistranslated a fair amount of stuff and missed a few things. I'll copy the thread here for those who want to contribute to my effort. I'm still looking for a concrete translation of the German in the bottom left (so far both translations have had problems), a map that would line up to the faded map, and of course a few more lines to be drawn between the items. Here's my post.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/TombRaider/c...tain_spoilers/

    This could be absolutely nothing, but it seems too related to be random bits thrown on a page.

    The page in question. http://i.imgur.com/L61tBU6.jpg

    Now, it's possible that the devs said "Throw some history stuff on the pages and let's wrap it up already." but in doing a bit of digging I think it may be more than that.
    I originally thought the top right was a misspelling of "Croatian" but I can't imagine Lara (or the devs) would make such a mistake. So I did a bit of Googling and, among other uses of the word Croatoan, found a lot about Roanoke Colony. For those unfamiliar with it Roanoke Colony, was an English settlement in what is now North Carolina in the late 1500s. It mysteriously disappeared and there was no sign of "foul play," in fact the colonists had clearly deliberately dismantled their colony and simply vanished, leaving only the word "Croatoan" carved into a post. Roanoke is now known as the Lost Colony.

    Now, there are other uses of the word Croatoan, such as a Native American tribe or an island (more of a reef, really) which are both in the same area but the next bit is why I believe Roanoke was what was being referenced.

    On the left page we have, among other things, a note paper with Cyrillic writing. /u/milancheee let me know that the writing is actually English but just using the Cyrillic alphabet and translated it as:

    Eight have origin
    Time essential
    Lost deel village

    The lost village bit combined with the "Croatoan" is why I believe we are referring to Roanoke.

    Below that we see a bit of paper with the number and roman numeral for 3 on it. This is what actually got me looking at this stuff in the first place. /u/SomewhatSpecial asked about Trinity, a mysterious organization you learn very little about and questions are left unanswered. All we seem to know comes from two files:

    Number 1
    Number 2

    (Screenshots from SomewhatSpecial)

    Lara finding this reference to Trinity on the island may have her seeking out more about them/it. I believe that the presence of the 3 and III with the question mark could mean what we're seeing on the pages are related to Lara's search for more information about Trinity.

    The bottom of the original screenshot is German for "it is the (Schissel?)" but I'm unable to figure out what Schissel would be. Edit: /u/darthbiki reports that the German at the bottom of the page may be "Sie ist der Schlüssel" meaning "She is the key"

    So here are the general elements of the page:

    Article 1: Top Left, note with Cyrillic. Translation:

    Eight have origin
    Time essential
    Lost deel village

    May refer to Roanoke. I do not know the significance of "eight have origin." (See Edit #7)

    Article 2: Behind the note you can see a drawing of what could be a spear, arrow, window, etc.

    Article 3: Note with 3 and III? - Could be referring to Trinity

    Article 4: Drawing of some cliffs with what appears to be a cave circled in red. The drawing is taken from a book of some sort, indicated by the Figure: Etching underneath.

    Article 5: German "She is the key" (See Edit 6 Below)

    Article 6: Top right is the word Croatoan with an arrow pointing towards a spot on the map below. Croatoan may refer to Roanoke.

    Article 7: The map is faded and it is hard to compare it to any area maps I've looked up of the area around Roanoke or Hatteras Island, historically called Croatoan. There are red lines drawn, some of which appear to follow a border and/or river. Interestingly the arrow does not point to the same location that is marked with the x on teh map but to a separate spot.

    Article 8: Blood stained paper saying _runter. I can't make out the first letter clearly but, if in English, the logical word would be grunter. However the first letter doesn't appear to be one used in the English alphabet so this may be in an alphabet like Cyrillic that shares some characters with English.
    Edit: /u/Come_mai believes this may be drunter, a variant of darunter which is German for "beneath" While the lower case d would seem out of place the word also makes use of a lower case e so clearly letter capitalization isn't perfect and Come_mai may be on to something.

    Article 9: The writing at the bottom appears to be in Cyrillic or an alphabet that shares characters with it, but due to the font my layman eyes can't determine a way to read it. (See Edit #5 below)

    So there you have it, there's everything I know. Anything other redditors can input, or any fun fan theories?

    (And yes, I will feel silly if this is all just random stuff that means nothing but, hey, I'm having fun trying to play detective, and I even learned the basics of reading Cyrillic so, yay.)

    Edit #1
    I was searching for a map to compare to the faded map in her journal and found this map of the area surrounding Roanoke:

    http://i.imgur.com/DHA2Fsi.gif

    Note that Roanoke is located at Trinety Harbor. Could be something.

    Edit #2
    /u/darthbiki reports that the German (item 5) is "Sie ist der Schlüssel" meaning "She is the key"

    Edit #3
    /u/Come_mai has this to say regarding article 8.
    it looks like "drunter", which is a common variant of "darunter" in german, which means beneath
    -comment

    Edit #4
    Been brainstorming and thinking back to previous villains which, naturally, the first thought goes to Natla. Being a reboot theres absolutely no need for them to ever bring Natla into the series, they can and probably will go an entirely different way, but it's worth mention that Natla, along with Tihocan and Qualopec, formed the triumvirate that ruled Atlantis. It could be (and probably is) purely coincidental but Triumvirate and Trinity are both groups of three powerful people/beings.

    Edit #5
    I've been taking a closer look at Article 9 and cross-referencing it with handwritten Cyrillic cursive and I believe I had mis-identified a few of the letters. I took a closer look and the second, larger word is once again English Cyrillic and is виллагэ, translated as village. Seems stupid that I missed it now since you can see it handwritten on the opposite page, it's just not in cursive so it's not as obvious.

    Edit #5b
    Article #9 is "lost deep* village"; even though letters are cut off by the bookmark strip you can clearly see it shares the same characters as the same "lost deep* village" Cyrillic on the previous page. *-See Edit #7

    Edit #6
    A day or so after I made this thread a similar one popped up on the Tomb Raider forums. While it's just a rehashing of some of the information here there is one alternate German translation that may be worth mentioning:

    In regards to what I have previously referred to as Article 5, the German at the bottom left, they first translated it as "sie ist der schisser" meaning "it is the sailor." Character-wise it works better than She is the key, the german characters line up. However translation-wise it does not pan out. Sie is feminine, der is masculine so currently we have a choice of a phrase that makes sense but doesn't quite fit character-wise (she is the key) or a phrase that fits character-wise but goes against basic German grammar.

    Edit #7
    Because of my epic fail at translating Cyrillic in Edit #5 I decided to revisit some bits of Article 1 that didn't make sense, in particular the second to last word. I've seen it translated lost deel village and lost deed village. Deed's a word at least, but still makes no sense. That's because I was identifying the last character as Л when, in hindsight it could instead be a П. Handwriting varies, of course, but you'll notice the Л in the word village (the last word) bow out a fair amount more than the straighter-looking letter ending the previous word. If the letter is actually suppoed to be П which would turn the translation into "lost deep village" which makes slightly more sense.
    Еигхт хаве оригин
    Eight have origin
    Тиме ессентиал
    Time essential
    Лост дееп виллаге.
    Lost deep village.
    I need the hammer to kill a god!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarlinG View Post
    Еигхт хаве оригин
    Eight have origin
    Тиме ессентиал
    Time essential
    Лост дееп виллаге.
    Lost deep village.
    Yep, covered in Edit #7, thanks for confirming the translation for me though.

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    In German they use the article "Sie" for one female person, for a feminime noun, for plural and as polite form. Last two are irrelevant in this case. As long as you do not know what exactly "the key" is, I would recommend to translate the sentence as "It is the key." in assumption we search for an object not a person as "key".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Game_Enthusiast View Post
    In German they use the article "Sie" for one female person, for a feminime noun, for plural and as polite form. Last two are irrelevant in this case. As long as you do not know what exactly "the key" is, I would recommend to translate the sentence as "It is the key." in assumption we search for an object not a person as "key".
    What confuses me is that why is it written in German? Does the Lost Colony have anything to do with Germany? Or the German language? Or is this encrypted for a reason, like da Vinci did?

    EDIT: Actually noticed the Cyrillic word "village" is also right to the left of the subtitles "I'm not going home." It does say seeing before it but it all appears to be in another font. Can anyone else clarify what it says?

    Plus: Can anyone make any comparison?
    (click image to enlarge)
    Last edited by XylophoneDealers; 03-10-2013 at 08:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XylophoneDealers View Post
    What confuses me is that why is it written in German? Does the Lost Colony have anything to do with Germany? Or the German language? Or is this encrypted for a reason, like da Vinci did?
    I do not know. Germany was an allied of Japan during World War II. Maybe this Trinity group is a German research team. Other fact is that Croatia was once ruled by Austria and Austria was part of the German Empire before World War II. But I am not sure what we can see on the map. Seems to be a solid landmass. You can see a border and the river marked in red. On the upper edge you can see lakes I believe. But it is not sure how deep the map zooms in into the landscape. You have to find the river and the border. The word "Croatoan" says where to search: In the area of Croatia or in the USA. Everything related to the Croatoan-indians and the Austrian/Croatian expedition. But I do not believe we can see the Roanoke Island. Too many buildings on it to hide a lost colony of the colonial age. They would have find it during the works on the houses there.

    EDIT:
    Under the picture of the cave is written "Figure 1 Eting". Seems to be out of an English written book. Maybe this teels you you must search in the USA.
    Last edited by Game_Enthusiast; 03-10-2013 at 09:41 AM.
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    Trinity was the code name given to the atomic bombs (WW2) (Which was considered an affront to The Blessed Trinity -hence the Roman Numerals - Rome is the home of the Holy See) And the Manhattan project was the code name given to the making of the atomic bombs. And we all know that the bombs ended up being used on Japan. The Nazi's were practising the occult during WW2 mainly the SS they where also tied up with the Tulle society which still exists today, and they formed the Nazi party ! also the German SS (WW2) searched for many Holy relics one the did get was the sword of destiny! to give more power to the third Reich. concerning the word CROATOAN, this link is interesting-http://anilbalan.com/2011/10/17/the-croatoan-mystery/
    in the tv series supernatural Sam suffers from this -Croatoan is an ailment specifically described as "blood-borne virus" that is demonic in origin, and causes a murderous rage in the people it infects. if the link above does not work try this --http://anilbalan.com/2011/10/17/the-croatoan-mystery/
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    Quote Originally Posted by laracrofty1 View Post
    The Nazi's were practising the occult during WW2 mainly the SS they where also tied up with the Tulle society which still exists today, and they formed the Nazi party ! also the German SS (WW2) searched for many Holy relics one the did get was the sword of destiny! to give more power to the third Reich.
    Yeah. But this is Hollywood. As a German I can ensure you that. Maybe Hitler was interested in the ancient German/nordic religion and culture. Thor, Odin and so on. But I believe this ocult stuff around the SS was only formed to show Adolf Hitler as really mad man. But he was not so mad. I do not defend him. But we should stay by facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XylophoneDealers View Post
    What confuses me is that why is it written in German? Does the Lost Colony have anything to do with Germany? Or the German language? Or is this encrypted for a reason, like da Vinci did?

    EDIT: Actually noticed the Cyrillic word "village" is also right to the left of the subtitles "I'm not going home." It does say seeing before it but it all appears to be in another font. Can anyone else clarify what it says?

    Plus: Can anyone make any comparison?
    (click image to enlarge)
    It is the word village in cyrillic, but italic.
    I need the hammer to kill a god!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game_Enthusiast View Post
    Yeah. But this is Hollywood. As a German I can ensure you that. Maybe Hitler was interested in the ancient German/nordic religion and culture. Thor, Odin and so on. But I believe this ocult stuff around the SS was only formed to show Adolf Hitler as really mad man. But he was not so mad. I do not defend him. But we should stay by facts.
    they are the facts
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarlinG View Post
    It is the word village in cyrillic, but italic.
    that the place on the link I gave, wow thanks for getting it! so another Island???? hope we have an easier time and time to explore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laracrofty1 View Post
    that the place on the link I gave, wow thanks for getting it! so another Island???? hope we have an easier time and time to explore.
    Wait, I was talking about the word next to the I'm not going home subtitles.
    Are we on the same page here?
    (pun intended)
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    Quote Originally Posted by laracrofty1 View Post
    they are the facts
    Than the source, please. And please not the movie Hellboy.
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    I think there is a D as the first letter of Runter making it Drunter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game_Enthusiast View Post
    Than the source, please. And please not the movie Hellboy.
    Please I do not want to start a history lesson or an argument here ,it is not the place! if you need the source then read world history! What you are doing is not fair to other members here or to me! thank you
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    Quote Originally Posted by laracrofty1 View Post
    Please I do not want to start a history lesson or an argument here ,it is not the place! if you need the source then read world history! What you are doing is not fair to other members here or to me! thank you
    Sorry. But what you have written sounds very like the story of Hellboy. Besides I am sick of hearing that we Germans were the evil demons of the world and we must serve ever as THE cliche opponent if the Russians are obsolete.

    Besides, I am very familiar with world history. But also with the content of the phrase: "History is written be the victors."
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    Keep the discussion pleasant, folks. No need for anyone getting personal.

    Carry on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game_Enthusiast View Post
    Sorry. But what you have written sounds very like the story of Hellboy. Besides I am sick of hearing that we Germans were the evil demons of the world and we must serve ever as THE cliche opponent if the Russians are obsolete.
    It's ok , I have a lot of German friends, and no you are not a demon, your human and felt hurt, I didn't even know you were German so no offence meant -I was just working the puzzle what do think of the photo I uploaded? Peace & hugs Mary
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    Quote Originally Posted by laracrofty1 View Post
    It's ok , I have a lot of German friends, and no you are not a demon, your human and felt hurt, I didn't even know you were German so no offence meant -I was just working the puzzle what do think of the photo I uploaded? Peace & hugs Mary
    Very nice.

    To the picture. I agree. I posted before that I read it as "drunter" as slang-form of "darunter". Is not often used.

    What I am working on currently is the map part to figure out which place on earth is shown.


    Acknowledge, admin Driber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Game_Enthusiast View Post
    Very nice.

    To the picture. I agree. I posted before that I read it as "drunter" as slang-form of "darunter". Is not often used.

    What I am working on currently is the map part to figure out which place on earth is shown.


    Acknowledge, admin Driber.
    if you find the map please post it. cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Game_Enthusiast View Post
    Very nice.

    To the picture. I agree. I posted before that I read it as "drunter" as slang-form of "darunter". Is not often used.

    What I am working on currently is the map part to figure out which place on earth is shown.


    Acknowledge, admin Driber.
    drunter is also a game like chess ? am I right?
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    Indiana Jones had Germans. Uncharted had Germans. I hope TR isn't doing it. Let's not do the beaten SS secret research stuff or modern Nazi conspiracy or at least keep it to the minimum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ninja_ View Post
    Indiana Jones had Germans. Uncharted had Germans. I hope TR isn't doing it. Let's not do the beaten SS secret research stuff or modern Nazi conspiracy or at least keep it to the minimum.
    I hope so. Many people are sick of this sterotype enemies.
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  25. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Cottbus, Deutschland
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    125

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    Quote Originally Posted by laracrofty1 View Post
    drunter is also a game like chess ? am I right?
    I have never heard about this. Sorry.
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